The American Medical Association Is Very Quietly Trying To Change Their Position On Hydroxychloroquine To Treat COVID-19

[badger2]

We see the information compromised scratching at the same patch of earth for eternity, and no e on this thread has mentioned azithromycin and zinc in combination. This is why y’all don’t have any business on ivermectin threads.

 

[badger2]

Post #1006 of the snake meat thread: ‘ r-bk itself is cleared by ACE in the endosomes.’ This proves ACE activity in endosomes. Hcq changes pH of endosomes creating serious problems for C-19.

 

[Rigby5]

ivermectin

{...
Ivermectin
Last Updated: August 27, 2020

Ivermectin is a Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved antiparasitic drug that is used to treat several neglected tropical diseases, including onchocerciasis, helminthiases, and scabies.1 It is also being evaluated for its potential to reduce the rate of malaria transmission by killing mosquitoes that feed on treated humans and livestock.2 For these indications, ivermectin has been widely used and has demonstrated an excellent safety profile.1

Proposed Mechanism of Action and Rationale for Use in Patients With COVID-19

Ivermectin acts by inhibiting the host importin alpha/beta-1 nuclear transport proteins, which are part of a key intracellular transport process that viruses hijack to enhance infection by suppressing the host antiviral response.3 Ivermectin is therefore a host-directed agent, which is likely the basis for its broad-spectrum activity in vitro against the viruses that cause dengue, Zika, HIV, and yellow fever.3-6
...}

 

[badger2]

Post #924 of the snake meat thread links cholesterol-rich domains. On the ivermectin thread, we have already made the cholsterol connection

 

[DBA]

We see the information compromised scratching at the same patch of earth for eternity, and no e on this thread has mentioned azithromycin and zinc in combination. This is why y’all don’t have any business on ivermectin threads.

My wife was talking about azithromycin and zinc back in March. I am sure I posted that on these very boards. The bottom line is the left didn’t want COVID fixed quickly. They need a political football and needed to bring down the economy. The lemmings fell for it and continue to fall for the misinformation they are being fed.

 

[badger2]

cholesterol connection to statins, also effective against C-19 as shown in the Qatar-South Africa-Bangladesh study. In that study, hcq failed, though what was mentioned were genes that were altered in C-19 infection. ELANE was one of them, which links to congenital neutropenia. We then tracked neutropenia back to C-19 in children and neutrophils in suspected C-19 reservoir in nature, Neophocaena.

 

[badger2]

Political football. That is why China pretended not to know the C-19 source in nature. They know, and WHO’s forthcoming visit is simply the dramatization of yellow journalism so that China will look good internationally.

 

[badger2]

As Zelenko stated, hcq, azithromycin and zinc are absolutely fatal to the virus.

 

[badger2]

Snake meat thread, posts # 995 and 999 link garter snake to acidic endosomes, then LAMP2. This is a hydroxychloroquine connection, because hcq changes the pH in lysosomes and endosomes. If zinc is already compromised in the male, then zinc transport-sequestration doubles the jeopardy. With hcq preventing the virus from achieving trafficking maturation due to pH, this is likely one point of synergy with zinc.

 

[colfax_m]

My wife is a physician who knows many other physicians who would beg to differ with your opinion.

I’m a physician and I’ve seen the data. Your wife and her colleagues can have their opinions but it’s not backed up by data.

My wife was in a group on Facebook for physicians discussing COVID. The purpose was to have an informed medical group discussion about the disease. What she found was that the left leaning physicians on the board were unable to divorce their political feelings from science. If she or others didn’t agree or even questioned their opinions, threats were made about reporting them to the medical board. They were not willing to even entertain the possibility that they were wrong. Doctors are humans first and doctors second. We act as if their personal feelings on a matter can’t affect or interfere with their professional opinions. That is a falsehood.

My wife and I used to get into lively discussions about whether or not scientists were biased. Being from a science background, she would argue they weren’t. She questioned a few things here and there like when the climate scientists deleted/lost/removed data that didn’t align with their theory, but overall she thought they were on the up and up. She is now questioning if real science actually exist anymore. Politics and money have become infused into “science” to a point where “scientific” outcomes can be pre-determined by the prevailing sentiment among Democratic politicians.

She would be much better to discuss this, but in a nutshell, the FDA, with the help of the MSM and many doctors, misled people into thinking that HCQ was dangrous, despite knowing full well that is not true. Honest Rheumatologists likely got a kick out of those headlines. The studies that were halted were due to a few patients having adverse reactions, but were given a very high dose of HCQ. If given at the correct time and dosage, coupled with zinc, HCQ is an effective treatment in decreasing the viral load. (Again, my wife could provide a much more informed explanation here). There was absolutely no reason for it not to be prescribed in the US. If doctors were informed as to when to give HCQ and when it would not be effective, many lives could have potential been saved and could continue to be saved to this day. The problem is that didn’t align with the Democrats political agenda, especially since Trump actually mentioned the drug.

No. The problem isn’t the Democratic agenda. The problem is the data doesn’t show it’s effective.

I don’t know if your wife takes care of COVID patients or who she was talking to. But we all tried things early on, anything we thought would work. And HCQ was one of those things. I had patients on it routinely early on. I had no problem with it and neither did anyone I know did either. Nothing Trump said would have any effect in that.

I do agree with you that the media was very scary about adverse effects but no doctor I know cares what the media says about medicine because they are not our source of information for these things.

Our sources are data and guidelines.

So we prescribed it for months, no problem. but eventually the better data came into view that when you really study it, and by study it I mean so clinical trials, it doesn’t work. People can wave around as many observational studies, some of which are positive and some of which are negative, but it doesn’t matter because the better studies didn’t show an effect. And it wasn’t just some of the better studies, it was all of them. To this day, I don’t know a single RCT that shows any benefit. When you that amount of good quality data, it just isn’t going to be used regardless of any political stance.

So we stopped using it. Not because the media or anyone else. But because the data showed it didn’t work and we kept looking for other options.

That could be wrong. It really could. But I’m not going to consider that it was won’t unless and until there’s good data that can override the mountain of data against it. Because that’s how science works. We will reconsider if there is a reason but so far that just hasn’t happened.

There’s contrarians everywhere so I’m not surprised there’s doctors who want to promote it and I don’t mind their efforts. We need contrarians to challenge established knowledge. I have a problem with people falsely accusing others of being political when they’re just doing what we’ve always done. To me, that’s a lazy, dishonest and non-scientific argument to paper over their lack of quality evidence.

 

[colfax_m]

As Zelenko stated, hcq, azithromycin and zinc are absolutely fatal to the virus.

Who the hell is Zelenko?

 

[badger2]

Zelenko is a Jewish physician who added zinc the the French C-19 pioneer’s (Raoult) duo of hcq and azithromycin. The problem with your argument is that these studies had a cyclopean frog’s eye-view from the bottom of a well by reifying hcq, when the genius lies in the trinitarian combination. This is not a surprising modus operandi for Western mediciine.

 

[colfax_m]

Zelenko is a Jewish physician who added zinc the the French C-19 pioneer’s (Raoult) duo of hcq and azithromycin. The problem with your argument is that these studies had a cyclopean frog’s eye-view from the bottom of a well by reifying hcq, when the genius lies in the trinitarian combination. This is not a surprising modus operandi for Western mediciine.

Zelenko is a random dude who got internet famous.

 

[KissMy]

ivermectin

{...
Ivermectin
Last Updated: August 27, 2020

Ivermectin is a Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved antiparasitic drug that is used to treat several neglected tropical diseases, including onchocerciasis, helminthiases, and scabies.1 It is also being evaluated for its potential to reduce the rate of malaria transmission by killing mosquitoes that feed on treated humans and livestock.2 For these indications, ivermectin has been widely used and has demonstrated an excellent safety profile.1

Proposed Mechanism of Action and Rationale for Use in Patients With COVID-19

Ivermectin acts by inhibiting the host importin alpha/beta-1 nuclear transport proteins, which are part of a key intracellular transport process that viruses hijack to enhance infection by suppressing the host antiviral response.3 Ivermectin is therefore a host-directed agent, which is likely the basis for its broad-spectrum activity in vitro against the viruses that cause dengue, Zika, HIV, and yellow fever.3-6
...}

I have a friend who was on Ivermectin & caught Covid-19. That landed him for many months now in Covent house nursing home in Florida where he will likely remain.

 

[DBA]

My wife is a physician who knows many other physicians who would beg to differ with your opinion.

I’m a physician and I’ve seen the data. Your wife and her colleagues can have their opinions but it’s not backed up by data.

My wife was in a group on Facebook for physicians discussing COVID. The purpose was to have an informed medical group discussion about the disease. What she found was that the left leaning physicians on the board were unable to divorce their political feelings from science. If she or others didn’t agree or even questioned their opinions, threats were made about reporting them to the medical board. They were not willing to even entertain the possibility that they were wrong. Doctors are humans first and doctors second. We act as if their personal feelings on a matter can’t affect or interfere with their professional opinions. That is a falsehood.

My wife and I used to get into lively discussions about whether or not scientists were biased. Being from a science background, she would argue they weren’t. She questioned a few things here and there like when the climate scientists deleted/lost/removed data that didn’t align with their theory, but overall she thought they were on the up and up. She is now questioning if real science actually exist anymore. Politics and money have become infused into “science” to a point where “scientific” outcomes can be pre-determined by the prevailing sentiment among Democratic politicians.

She would be much better to discuss this, but in a nutshell, the FDA, with the help of the MSM and many doctors, misled people into thinking that HCQ was dangrous, despite knowing full well that is not true. Honest Rheumatologists likely got a kick out of those headlines. The studies that were halted were due to a few patients having adverse reactions, but were given a very high dose of HCQ. If given at the correct time and dosage, coupled with zinc, HCQ is an effective treatment in decreasing the viral load. (Again, my wife could provide a much more informed explanation here). There was absolutely no reason for it not to be prescribed in the US. If doctors were informed as to when to give HCQ and when it would not be effective, many lives could have potential been saved and could continue to be saved to this day. The problem is that didn’t align with the Democrats political agenda, especially since Trump actually mentioned the drug.

No. The problem isn’t the Democratic agenda. The problem is the data doesn’t show it’s effective.

I don’t know if your wife takes care of COVID patients or who she was talking to. But we all tried things early on, anything we thought would work. And HCQ was one of those things. I had patients on it routinely early on. I had no problem with it and neither did anyone I know did either. Nothing Trump said would have any effect in that.

I do agree with you that the media was very scary about adverse effects but no doctor I know cares what the media says about medicine because they are not our source of information for these things.

Our sources are data and guidelines.

So we prescribed it for months, no problem. but eventually the better data came into view that when you really study it, and by study it I mean so clinical trials, it doesn’t work. People can wave around as many observational studies, some of which are positive and some of which are negative, but it doesn’t matter because the better studies didn’t show an effect. And it wasn’t just some of the better studies, it was all of them. To this day, I don’t know a single RCT that shows any benefit. When you that amount of good quality data, it just isn’t going to be used regardless of any political stance.

So we stopped using it. Not because the media or anyone else. But because the data showed it didn’t work and we kept looking for other options.

That could be wrong. It really could. But I’m not going to consider that it was won’t unless and until there’s good data that can override the mountain of data against it. Because that’s how science works. We will reconsider if there is a reason but so far that just hasn’t happened.

There’s contrarians everywhere so I’m not surprised there’s doctors who want to promote it and I don’t mind their efforts. We need contrarians to challenge established knowledge. I have a problem with people falsely accusing others of being political when they’re just doing what we’ve always done. To me, that’s a lazy, dishonest and non-scientific argument to paper over their lack of quality evidence.

It is my understanding that the cocktail of zinc, azithromycin and HCQ is effective when used early on, not once they have progressed to a point they need to be hospitalized. Those patients will not respond to HCQ. Out patient physicians were not given access to HCQ as early as March. In fact, pharmacy’s begin NOT filling prescriptions shortly after Trump mentioned the drug. Hospital pharmacies were filling those prescriptions but obviously for patients who had already progressed to the point of hospitalization, where we know that HCQ is ineffective. We should have been and currently should be prescribing HCQ in an out-patient setting along with zinc and azithromycin when patients are positive and symptomatic. This is being done around the world and has been effective. Most of the studies I have read have been focused on giving the drugs when they have progressed well passed the time for them to be effective.

Again, this is all from my understanding and it is obviously second hand information.

Article below states my point.

Study shows hydroxychloroquine may be effective for outpatients with COVID-19

 

[badger2]

#114 has a compound problem: diversity of particularizations and roulette of the H. sapiens genome coupled to ivermectin’s origin in nature in precise proximity to a suspected C-19 reservoir. As in the Raoult protocol using only two agents, the msm gestapo swiftly dismissed it due to lack of numbers. The pathology is seeing the cup half-empty rather than half-full, Western medicine cock-sure ro come up with a once-and-for-all authoritarian answer to viral evolution. For the ivermectin-Neophocaena assemblage, none have yet scrutinzed the connection.

 

[L.K.Eder]

 

[badger2]

“Where the Hell is Bond?”

To take these Chinese esoterics and shoot their yellow rumps up with truth serum would reveal the source in nature, make the WHO look like the horse’s recognition-jonesing rear-end, and ditto for the limelight-seeking Catholic mafia puppet, Fauci. It would also yield important knowledhe about vaccine making.

Truth Serum

Truth serum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

‘....a defector from biological weapons department....claimed a serum code-named SP-117 was highly effective.’

 

[badger2]

The report in post #117 says nothing about the pharmacodynamics of hcq. The reader-prisoner thus remains dumbed-down in a slouch towards Gomorrah.

 

[colfax_m]

It is my understanding that the cocktail of zinc, azithromycin and HCQ is effective when used early on, not once they have progressed to a point they need to be hospitalized. Those patients will not respond to HCQ. Out patient physicians were not given access to HCQ as early as March. In fact, pharmacy’s begin NOT filling prescriptions shortly after Trump mentioned the drug. Hospital pharmacies were filling those prescriptions but obviously for patients who had already progressed to the point of hospitalization, where we know that HCQ is ineffective. We should have been and currently should be prescribing HCQ in an out-patient setting along with zinc and azithromycin when patients are positive and symptomatic. This is being done around the world and has been effective. Most of the studies I have read have been focused on giving the drugs when they have progressed well passed the time for them to be effective.

Again, this is all from my understanding and it is obviously second hand information.

Article below states my point.

Study shows hydroxychloroquine may be effective for outpatients with COVID-19

You should notice how the efficacy of HCQ is a constantly moving target. At first it was a good treatment for COVID, so we tried it in hospitals and it didn't work. Then it was that the dose too low. Then it was that the dose is too low. Then you had to add azithromycin. Then you had to add zinc. Then you needed to use it in outpatients. Then you needed to use it in people without severe symptoms. Every time a study shows it fails, then the parameters for which it works changes slightly so that people can continue to claim it's effective. This in itself should give you some skepticism about it's efficacy and skepticism of the quality of people pushing it.

Know why outpatient physicians weren't given access? Because we thought it was effective for inpatients and we wanted to use the supply for the people who were sick. Not to mention a bunch of unscrupulous physicians were prescribing large supplies for themselves and their friends because they thought it was going to be a cure as well. Now it's just not used to supply issues aren't a big problem anymore but there was a supply problem for a while, early on.

I just actually read this study from the world famous Zelenko, the guy no one ever heard of because he's not an academic, he's just some community doctor who got internet famous for saying the right things. As I've stated before, the media is a garbage place to get scientific information because the vast majority of journalists (or bloggers or whoever) are barely scientifically literate enough to do justice to these complex issues. This article is actually better than most but still focuses far too much on the media controversy.

The study itself is absolute garbage. The comparison group is some amorphous "public reference data" and does basically no explanation of where the data came from. Furthermore, the reference group has zero characteristics outside the fact that they were diagnosed with COVID and were hospitalized. We don't know their age, comorbid conditions, or even where they presented. It's an absolute joke to even try to use this as a comparison tool. This article is going to be ignored for good reason, it's such low quality that it's absolutely useless to draw any conclusions from. Not to mention it's published in a really obscure journal.