The Alleged Secret Plot To Sabotage Jimmy Carters Re-election By Delaying Hostage Release

[CrusaderFrank]

No, it fell because Ukrainians , Uzbeks, Lithuanians, no longer wanted to be ruled by Russians, and Russians themselves got tired of subsidizing the Warsaw Pact while waiting in line for consumer goods.

Not to worry, Trump's buddy Putin will bring it all back... or not.

Many Chinese don't want to be ruled by your beloved CCP. How will that end?

 

[skews13]

This is revisionist history. The Soviets were already in serious financial peril. Did Reagan's spending expedite their collapse? Probably by 5-10 years at the most. He also blew deficits out of the water and since Republicans only care about deficits when they're out of power and slash taxes on the people who can support federal budges the most, our debt situation has never really recovered. Thanks, Ronnie.

You may also recall the other thing that expedited the Soviet collapse: Afghanistan. That started almost 2 years before Reagan arrived on the scene. But he arm the Mujahideen, which later became Al Qaeda so he gets credit for that, I guess.



Thanks to bad Fed Reserve policy and disruption to energy supplies throughout most of the 1970s - sound familiar?



GMAFB, it was the U.S. car industry that fucked itself. One, because it built cars that sucked, and two, because U.S. auto makers began relying on overseas supply chains -- a trend that largely began in the 1980s when your hero was the president. Reagan and his sidekick Bush encouraged them to do it.



Reagan didn't reduce inflation; that was Volcker's handy work.

And how they selectively omit 1968-1976.

Between 1968 and 1992, Republicans were the executive branch for 24 of those years. Carter was there for 4.

 

[mak2]

Neither can we. We need to eliminate 50% of the officers including 100% of the Woke Forces; cut an accounting of what cost us $2 Trillion. I suspect we have a secret space program

So now you guys have turned on the military too?

 

[blackhawk]

Two things one Ben Barnes was a Democrat served as Lieutenant Governor from January 21, 1969 – January 16, 1973 second in 1979-1980 the idea that Middle Eastern leaders especially those in Iran would care about or take seriously any message from any American politican is pretty laughable,

 

[skews13]

Um, okay, I was in from 1981 to 1992. (reserve and active). And some points.

First, since you got out in 1986, you didn't see the part where Reagan had to ratchet back on military spending as part of cost reductions. He reduced the navy from his 600 ship ideal and Navy Secretary James Webb resigned in protest.

Reagan had unemployment of 7.8% when he got elected, it jacked up to 11.3% in his effort to fight inflation with unemployment, and then got down to 7.8% at the end of his first term and it was "Morning in America".

The bigger picture was that Reagan presided over a massive decline in unionization ,and as a result, a decline in the white working class.



Except if you actually were smart enough to get into a college, you'd know exactly why the USSR disbanded. Not because Reagan spent us into debt and armed Muslim Freedom Fighters Terrorists in Afghanistan. It collapsed because the the 300 million not-Russians got tired of being ruled by Russia. Russia was essentially the last colonial empire to fall from the old order.

Yep. Reagan is responsible for the explosion in Hispanics replacing white workers, more than any President before or after hm.

Reagan is responsible for manufacturing moving to China, the collapse of the U.S. steel steel industry, the auto manufacturing industry moving to Canada, and Mexico, and the rust belt created from PA to WI.

And let’s not leave out the war on Central American socialist regimes, that led directly to the collapse of Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala, that is the direct cause of the problem at the southern border.

And how can we overlook the collapse of the savings and loans, due directly to supply side economics.

And how much military aid did Iran receive from the Iran Contra criminal syndicate, he escaped prosecution for?

Something about a Marines barracks bombing, and a cut and run order jogs my memory.

 

[Sunsettommy]

They went bankrupt in 1973, under Brezhnev, largely due to LBJ's escalation of the Viet Nam war and jacking up the Cold War containment policies in Africa and the ME as well. He took on Israel as a client state in 1967 after France bailed out and when the Israelis defeated the Arab invasions in 1973 the Arabs blamed the Soviets and dumped them as allies. They went on western life support and relied on western wheat imports and refined petroleum products long before Reagan did anything but pose for cameras in California. Reagan didn't do shit but actually hampered Gorbachev's efforts to shut down the Communist hardliners and reform the state with his idiot speeches. He was really nick named the Gimp, not 'Gipper'.

The main decline began when Khrushchev was sacked in 1964 in favor of Brezhnev who was powerful but stupid as he retched up the military and tried to export their ideology which drained their always meager economy.

Then they were suffering from food shortages that got worse in the 1970's where they were once forced to buy grain from, he he America that drains the weak economy some more which never recovered then Afghanistan involvement where they couldn't defeat roving tribe other drains of their never impressive economy continued.

Reagan came along with his loud put downs of the weak USSR calling them an evil empire which weakened them internally politically and that "Star Wars" proposals actually scared the old doddering empire who wanted to convince Reagan not to pursue it during negotiations even though it didn't exist at the time.

The Decline started long ago for it to be ripe for Reagan to apply the pressure to finish it off after all the confused leadership changes after Brezhnev died exposed that their power was in tatters already being a closed nation made it difficult for a productive workforce to be maintained.

Brezhnev was a TERRIBLE economic leader who greatly weakened them internally with his stupid Militaristic viewpoint (He was a Colonel) that drained the always weak economy which began its downward spiral around 1972 that never stopped.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So now you guys have turned on the military too?

What are you rambling on about?

 

[mak2]

What are you rambling on about?

I bolded your words to avoid confusion.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I bolded your words to avoid confusion.

What was it that confused you?

 

[Sunsettommy]

From Iran's perspective, building a bomb is the wise move, even if they risk total destruction to do it. They face certain destruction if they don't.

With Russian and EU backing, acting essentially as a counterweight to US influence, they had some incentive to suspend their weapons program in the hope that someone like Hillary Clinton could build on the relationship building that Obama had done. I am critical of Obama's foreign policy, which was his weakness as a president, but this was by far his biggest accomplishment. Obama was able to do something that neither GWB nor MAGA was able to do: get Iran to agree to inspections and get them to suspend their nuke weapons program.

Now? There's absolutely no incentive to do that. Iran doesn't trust the US, and Iran is finding increasing global support for its resistance to US pressure.

It is the job of the U.N. to deal with resolutions and inspections of Nuclear and WMD which Iran has long resisted.

UN Security Council Resolutions on Iran

LINK

=====

A long history of Iraqi violations

List of United Nations Security Council resolutions concerning Iraq​

LINK

 

[Sunsettommy]

No, it fell because Ukrainians , Uzbeks, Lithuanians, no longer wanted to be ruled by Russians, and Russians themselves got tired of subsidizing the Warsaw Pact while waiting in line for consumer goods.

Not to worry, Trump's buddy Putin will bring it all back... or not.

Utter nonsense it was internal decay because of economic and political weaknesses.

The rigidity and closed society of the nation prevented them from being able to deal with increasingly critical worker shortages.

The economy started its long decay in the early 1970's that cratered by the time Reagan finished his first term.

Period	Annual GNP growth (according to the CIA)	Annual NMP growth (according to Grigorii Khanin)	Annual NMP growth (according to the USSR)
1960–1965	4.8[40]	4.4[40]	6.5[40]
1965–1970	4.9[40]	4.1[40]	7.7[40]
1970–1975	3.0[40]	3.2[40]	5.7[40]
1975–1980	1.9[40]	1.0[40]	4.2[40]
1980–1985	1.8[40]	0.6[40]	3.5[40]
[note 1]

LINK

Leonid Brezhnev was a poor leader.

 

[multivita-man]

It is the job of the U.N. to deal with resolutions and inspections of Nuclear and WMD which Iran has long resisted.

UN Security Council Resolutions on Iran

LINK

In 2015, Iran agreed to stop enriching uranium and plutonium, and they agreed to restrictions on centrifuges for 10 years. As far as inspectors were able to tell, they were complying with that agreement. Of course they have since restarted those activities because the United States broke the agreement.

 

[multivita-man]

Utter nonsense it was internal decay because of economic and political weaknesses.

The rigidity and closed society of the nation prevented them from being able to deal with increasingly critical worker shortages.

The economy started its long decay in the early 1970's that cratered by the time Reagan finished his first term.

Period	Annual GNP growth (according to the CIA)	Annual NMP growth (according to Grigorii Khanin)	Annual NMP growth (according to the USSR)
1960–1965	4.8[40]	4.4[40]	6.5[40]
1965–1970	4.9[40]	4.1[40]	7.7[40]
1970–1975	3.0[40]	3.2[40]	5.7[40]
1975–1980	1.9[40]	1.0[40]	4.2[40]
1980–1985	1.8[40]	0.6[40]	3.5[40]
[note 1]

LINK

Leonid Brezhnev was a poor leader.

Yeah the Ruskies failed because their military and political commitments to keeping Eastern Europe and Central Asia under its thumb were too costly relative to the poor economic growth that its centrally-planned economy generated.

 

[0311]

A “prominent Texas politician” has come forward to allege a shocking four-decade secret: that foes of President Jimmy Carter sabotaged his 1980 re-election by urging Iranians not to release 52 American hostages until after that election.

The New York Times reported yesterday that Ben Barnes, a major figure in Texas politics in the 1980s, says he now wants to set the record straight about having “unwittingly (taken) part in a 1980 tour of the Middle East with a clandestine agenda.”

In that tour, Barnes says, he traveled that summer with his mentor, former Texas Governor John Connally” to one Middle Eastern capital after another meeting with a host of regional leaders to deliver a blunt message to be passed to Iran: Don’t release the hostages before the election. Mr. Reagan will win and give you a better deal.”

Revealed: The alleged secret plot to sabotage Jimmy Carter's reelection by delaying hostage release

A “prominent Texas politician” has come forward to allege a shocking four-decade secret: that foes of President Jimmy Carter sabotaged his 1980 re-election by urging Iranians not to release 52 American hostages until after that election. The New York Times reported yesterday that Ben Barnes, a...

www.rawstory.com

No body gives better deals to the mullah than Republicans.

This has been an open secret for many years. Just like Rumsfeld going to Iraq to do a whiskey hand shake with Saddam to prevent Iran from spreading their brand of religious bull shit.

 

[beagle9]

Jimmy Carter allowed the Radical Muslims to take over our embassy and when we were fully loaded and ready to bomb Tehran into extinction, he, the peanut farmer, told US to stand down. Because of that shit, we have had to deal with millions of people murdered by Radical Muzzies.

No matter what these leftist say, the Demoncrat party is the evil people in the room always. They are truly a sick people that need to be relegated to the history books as the worst party this NATION has ever had the displeasure of knowing. They prove it everyday.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

A “prominent Texas politician” has come forward to allege a shocking four-decade secret: that foes of President Jimmy Carter sabotaged his 1980 re-election by urging Iranians not to release 52 American hostages until after that election.

The New York Times reported yesterday that Ben Barnes, a major figure in Texas politics in the 1980s, says he now wants to set the record straight about having “unwittingly (taken) part in a 1980 tour of the Middle East with a clandestine agenda.”

In that tour, Barnes says, he traveled that summer with his mentor, former Texas Governor John Connally” to one Middle Eastern capital after another meeting with a host of regional leaders to deliver a blunt message to be passed to Iran: Don’t release the hostages before the election. Mr. Reagan will win and give you a better deal.”

Revealed: The alleged secret plot to sabotage Jimmy Carter's reelection by delaying hostage release

A “prominent Texas politician” has come forward to allege a shocking four-decade secret: that foes of President Jimmy Carter sabotaged his 1980 re-election by urging Iranians not to release 52 American hostages until after that election. The New York Times reported yesterday that Ben Barnes, a...

www.rawstory.com

No body gives better deals to the mullah than Republicans.

This again?...lol

 

[sealybobo]

A “prominent Texas politician” has come forward to allege a shocking four-decade secret: that foes of President Jimmy Carter sabotaged his 1980 re-election by urging Iranians not to release 52 American hostages until after that election.

The New York Times reported yesterday that Ben Barnes, a major figure in Texas politics in the 1980s, says he now wants to set the record straight about having “unwittingly (taken) part in a 1980 tour of the Middle East with a clandestine agenda.”

In that tour, Barnes says, he traveled that summer with his mentor, former Texas Governor John Connally” to one Middle Eastern capital after another meeting with a host of regional leaders to deliver a blunt message to be passed to Iran: Don’t release the hostages before the election. Mr. Reagan will win and give you a better deal.”

Revealed: The alleged secret plot to sabotage Jimmy Carter's reelection by delaying hostage release

A “prominent Texas politician” has come forward to allege a shocking four-decade secret: that foes of President Jimmy Carter sabotaged his 1980 re-election by urging Iranians not to release 52 American hostages until after that election. The New York Times reported yesterday that Ben Barnes, a...

www.rawstory.com

No body gives better deals to the mullah than Republicans.

Then the Iran Contra deals later.

American Made (2017) - IMDb

American Made: Directed by Doug Liman. With Tom Cruise, Domhnall Gleeson, Sarah Wright, Jesse Plemons. The story of Barry Seal, an American pilot who became a drug-runner for the CIA in the 1980s in a clandestine operation that would be exposed as the Iran-Contra Affair.

www.imdb.com

Tom Cruise did a great movie on all the fucked up stuff we did back then. The CIA. Flying in guns, drugs and illegals. In or out.

But I'm not so innocent to think this kind of stuff doesn't happen on the down low. And I wouldn't say Reagan should go to jail for it. This shit is bigger than that or not that simple, probably. Above my pay grade. I'd give Reagan a pass but still he was wrong.

And no shit GW Bush CIA man made a deal with the Iranians to hold the hostages and in return Reagan made him VP. Then P.

His son actually lost 2000 but his other son hooked up his fuck up son. Then he lied us into Iraq.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

This is revisionist history. The Soviets were already in serious financial peril. Did Reagan's spending expedite their collapse? Probably by 5-10 years at the most. He also blew deficits out of the water and since Republicans only care about deficits when they're out of power and slash taxes on the people who can support federal budges the most, our debt situation has never really recovered. Thanks, Ronnie.

You may also recall the other thing that expedited the Soviet collapse: Afghanistan. That started almost 2 years before Reagan arrived on the scene. But he arm the Mujahideen, which later became Al Qaeda so he gets credit for that, I guess.



Thanks to bad Fed Reserve policy and disruption to energy supplies throughout most of the 1970s - sound familiar?



GMAFB, it was the U.S. car industry that fucked itself. One, because it built cars that sucked, and two, because U.S. auto makers began relying on overseas supply chains -- a trend that largely began in the 1980s when your hero was the president. Reagan and his sidekick Bush encouraged them to do it.



Reagan didn't reduce inflation; that was Volcker's handy work.

I remember when Tipp Oneil, you know the head of Congress, he was the one blowing the deficit all out of whack, because he was in charge of the purse strings. RR wanted "line item veto" to keep the pork out of the bills, but those damn Marxists/Demofacists just had to spend on top of the military budget we so needed.


$28 trillion
The estimated aggregate cost of the War on Poverty is nearly $28 trillion, which is three and a half times higher than the $8 trillion total price tag of every major war since the American Revolution.

It’s Time to Admit the Feds Are Making Poverty Worse—Not Better​

www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=11707

 

[Grumblenuts]

I wouldn't say Reagan should go to jail for it.

That would be gross at this point.

 

[Delldude]

You would be wrong. Iran gave inspectors access to their enrichment facilities.

Trust us....

March 8, 2023

After years of stonewalling, Iran pledged on March 4, 2023 to cooperate with a U.N. probe into traces of uranium at three undeclared sites that date back to a covert program before 2003. Tehran also promised to reinstall monitoring equipment, including cameras, that had been removed from nuclear facilities in June 2022. The IAEA and Iran “put a tourniquet on the bleeding of information and lack of continuity of knowledge,” Rafael Grossi, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), said after two days of talks in Tehran. The talks included meetings with President Ebrahim Raisi, Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, and Mohammad Eslami, the head of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran (AEIO).

Iran (Again) Promises Access to IAEA Inspectors

You're just making shit up.

In one of these circular debates on this same subject, I posted the timeline of the Afghan withdrawal, complete with stipulations, published by the US Gov't. Go find it.