The Alleged Secret Plot To Sabotage Jimmy Carters Re-election By Delaying Hostage Release

[Mikeoxenormous]

So your argument is we should have killed millions of people - including the hostages we were so worried about - in order to show how tough we were? Really?



You were doing so well until this part.

The fall of the USSR had nothing to do with Reagan spending us into a hole we keep digging.
Reagan didn't fix the economy, he made it a lot worse for the middle class.

Another few morons have gone on to the Marxist slave pen called ignore. I dont know why i ever took them off it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Snark all you want.

The fact is Iran had stopped making advances on its nuclear weapons program -- until the MAGA-tard basically shredded the deal. MAGA:

I mean, let's rewind the tape here and look at what MAGA's Mid-East accomplishments. MAGA:

* cut a deal with the Taliban - even telling them when they were going to withdraw.

* tossed out the 2-state solution in Israel, basically all but guaranteeing a new generation of Islamic radicalization over the issue.

* engaged in blatant corruption with Saudi Arabia to enrich themselves

* and restarted Iran's nuke program


Well done, MAGA!

Iran stopped? Really??

Iran acknowledges accusation it enriched uranium to 84%

 

[Seymour Flops]

The fall of the USSR had nothing to do with Reagan spending us into a hole we keep digging.
Reagan didn't fix the economy, he made it a lot worse for the middle class.

Those are the lies they tell to people who weren't there at the time. I saw with my own eyes how Reagan built up the U.S. military over the objections of Democrats who were shreiking and making Ads about him starting a nuclear war. I saw how the Soviets realized they could never win against the United States when it got its pride back.

I joined the Army in 1982 when inflation had reached over fourteen percent and unemployment was beginning rising to over ten percent. Nearly half of my basic training platoon was form Michigan due to Carter's destruction of the U.S. car industry. I got out of the Army in 1986 when Reagan had reduced inflation to less than five percent, and unemployment to less than seven percent.

Those things benefited the middle class, though it angered college professors who now teach about how the Soviets just decided to disband for no particular reason, and how Reagan made things worse for the working people.

 

[DudleySmith]

I think this was known all along. I remember reading about how well-timed the release of the hostages was.

It's good that an insider finally confirms it, though.

They were released as soon as Reagan was inaugurated; Connally would have nothing to gain by then. The story is just the usual stupid Democrat bashing form morons; the GOP shills have little more credibility than the Democrat shills do. Why they ruin their own cred when they clearly don't have to is just a from of idiocy. It's why both Parties need to die, and soon.

 

[multivita-man]

Jimmy Carter allowed the Radical Muslims to take over our embassy and when we were fully loaded and ready to bomb Tehran into extinction, he, the peanut farmer, told US to stand down. Because of that shit, we have had to deal with millions of people murdered by Radical Muzzies.

Someone needs to call animal control 'cause you're off yer chain with this post.

 

[DudleySmith]

Ben Barnes? Is that even a real name? I grew up in Texas in the late seventies and early eighties and I never heard of that "prominent Texas politician."

He was a Lt. Governor in the early 70's, more powerful in many ways than the Governor, for those who really do live here and back then as well. If you never heard of him you didn't live here or never read the papers or watched the news.

 

[multivita-man]

Those are the lies they tell to people who weren't there at the time. I saw with my own eyes how Reagan built up the U.S. military over the objections of Democrats who were shreiking and making Ads about him starting a nuclear war. I saw how the Soviets realized they could never win against the United States when it got its pride back.

This is revisionist history. The Soviets were already in serious financial peril. Did Reagan's spending expedite their collapse? Probably by 5-10 years at the most. He also blew deficits out of the water and since Republicans only care about deficits when they're out of power and slash taxes on the people who can support federal budges the most, our debt situation has never really recovered. Thanks, Ronnie.

You may also recall the other thing that expedited the Soviet collapse: Afghanistan. That started almost 2 years before Reagan arrived on the scene. But he arm the Mujahideen, which later became Al Qaeda so he gets credit for that, I guess.

I joined the Army in 1982 when inflation had reached over fourteen percent and unemployment was beginning rising to over ten percent.

Thanks to bad Fed Reserve policy and disruption to energy supplies throughout most of the 1970s - sound familiar?

Nearly half of my basic training platoon was form Michigan due to Carter's destruction of the U.S. car industry.

GMAFB, it was the U.S. car industry that fucked itself. One, because it built cars that sucked, and two, because U.S. auto makers began relying on overseas supply chains -- a trend that largely began in the 1980s when your hero was the president. Reagan and his sidekick Bush encouraged them to do it.

I got out of the Army in 1986 when Reagan had reduced inflation to less than five percent, and unemployment to less than seven percent.

Reagan didn't reduce inflation; that was Volcker's handy work.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Iran stopped? Really??

Iran acknowledges accusation it enriched uranium to 84%

It is amazing that leftists think Iran will meekly stop building their bomb program.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Jimmy Carter allowed the Radical Muslims to take over our embassy and when we were fully loaded and ready to bomb Tehran into extinction, he, the peanut farmer, told US to stand down. Because of that shit, we have had to deal with millions of people murdered by Radical Muzzies.

Interesting you blame Carter for the Iran debacle when the blame, in fact, goes back to the 1950s when our CIA and British MI-6 orchestrated a coup and overthrew the duly elected and secular president of Iran, Mohammad Mosaddegh, during the Eisenhower administration all over oil. We installed the Shah of Iran, who was a dictator for 25 years leading to resentment by the people and the rise of Khomeini.

 

[JoeB131]

Those are the lies they tell to people who weren't there at the time. I saw with my own eyes how Reagan built up the U.S. military over the objections of Democrats who were shreiking and making Ads about him starting a nuclear war. I saw how the Soviets realized they could never win against the United States when it got its pride back.

I joined the Army in 1982 when inflation had reached over fourteen percent and unemployment was beginning rising to over ten percent. Nearly half of my basic training platoon was form Michigan due to Carter's destruction of the U.S. car industry. I got out of the Army in 1986 when Reagan had reduced inflation to less than five percent, and unemployment to less than seven percent.

Um, okay, I was in from 1981 to 1992. (reserve and active). And some points.

First, since you got out in 1986, you didn't see the part where Reagan had to ratchet back on military spending as part of cost reductions. He reduced the navy from his 600 ship ideal and Navy Secretary James Webb resigned in protest.

Reagan had unemployment of 7.8% when he got elected, it jacked up to 11.3% in his effort to fight inflation with unemployment, and then got down to 7.8% at the end of his first term and it was "Morning in America".

The bigger picture was that Reagan presided over a massive decline in unionization ,and as a result, a decline in the white working class.

Those things benefited the middle class, though it angered college professors who now teach about how the Soviets just decided to disband for no particular reason, and how Reagan made things worse for the working people.

Except if you actually were smart enough to get into a college, you'd know exactly why the USSR disbanded. Not because Reagan spent us into debt and armed Muslim Freedom Fighters Terrorists in Afghanistan. It collapsed because the the 300 million not-Russians got tired of being ruled by Russia. Russia was essentially the last colonial empire to fall from the old order.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So your argument is we should have killed millions of people - including the hostages we were so worried about - in order to show how tough we were? Really?



You were doing so well until this part.

The fall of the USSR had nothing to do with Reagan spending us into a hole we keep digging.
Reagan didn't fix the economy, he made it a lot worse for the middle class.

The USSR fell because the Soviets were nice people, right?

 

[multivita-man]

They were released as soon as Reagan was inaugurated;

My point exactly. Coincidental, I'm sure.

And remember, Reagan didn't know weapons were being sold to Iran, either.

 

[mak2]

The USSR fell because the Soviets were nice people, right?

I think it was because USSR's economy was about the size of California's economy. It could not afford the war machine.

 

[multivita-man]

The USSR fell because the Soviets were nice people, right?

Empires (even if they don't call themselves that) cost money to maintain, and they get costlier with expansion. Afghanistan was the bridge too far and their own centrally-planned economy had no way to sustain it.

 

[DudleySmith]

This is revisionist history. The Soviets were already in serious financial peril. Did Reagan's spending expedite their collapse? Probably by 5-10 years at the most. H

They went bankrupt in 1973, under Brezhnev, largely due to LBJ's escalation of the Viet Nam war and jacking up the Cold War containment policies in Africa and the ME as well. He took on Israel as a client state in 1967 after France bailed out and when the Israelis defeated the Arab invasions in 1973 the Arabs blamed the Soviets and dumped them as allies. They went on western life support and relied on western wheat imports and refined petroleum products long before Reagan did anything but pose for cameras in California. Reagan didn't do shit but actually hampered Gorbachev's efforts to shut down the Communist hardliners and reform the state with his idiot speeches. He was really nick named the Gimp, not 'Gipper'.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Are you posting this because you actually believe it?

Ben Barnes? Is that even a real name? I grew up in Texas in the late seventies and early eighties and I never heard of that "prominent Texas politician." Results of a google search on "Ben Barnes" are nearly all "Benjamin Barnes," an obscure Brit actor. I saw only two about the "prominent" guy, the NYT story and the Daily Beast' regurgitation of it.

If the hostages had been released right before the election, that would not have reduced Reagan's incredible landslide in the slightest. If anything, people would have seen it as an attempt by the Ayahollah to sway the election and would have galvanized Reagan's support.

I hate to be that old dude that remembers history, but no one who sat in Jimmy Carter's gasoline lines during Carter's unemployment/inflation spiral thinks he could have won if only he had gotten the hostages released.

Read "Crises" by Carter's Chief of Staff, Hamilton Jordan. It is a shocking account of the hostage taking event and Carter's reaction to it. Shocking because it decribes U.S. officials begging Iranian mid-level government functionaries. Not begging for them to release the hostages, those Iranians had no authority whatsoever to do anything with the hostages. They were begging to be allowed to talk to someone who did. For more than a year.

On Reagan's inaguaration day, the Carter negotiators started packing their stuff. The Iranians asked when the Reagan negotiators would get there. Carter's men said there aren't going to be any Reagan negotiators, he promised that during the election. This was not a tell-all book by a staffer who turned on his old boss. Jordan was proud of working for Carter.

No matter. The Iranians decided they had fucked around, but din't want to find out. The hostages were released pronto, Reagan fixed the economy, and drove the Soviet Union out of existence without firing a shot. That last was his real crime to old-school Democrats, who will never forgive him.

Really you never heard of Ben Barnes who was born in Texas, as 4 year Lt. Governor then 4 years as Speaker of the house and Rep. for 8 years.

He left Office for the last time in January 1973.

LINK

All I did was use Microsoft with Ben Barnes Texas in the search box, viola!

 

[DudleySmith]

Interesting you blame Carter for the Iran debacle when the blame, in fact, goes back to the 1950s when our CIA and British MI-6 orchestrated a coup and overthrew the duly elected and secular president of Iran, Mohammad Mosaddegh, during the Eisenhower administration all over oil. We installed the Shah of Iran, who was a dictator for 25 years leading to resentment by the people and the rise of Khomeini.

The blame in fact goes back to the fact that the Soviets occupied half of Iran at the time and were rigging votes right and left, and Mosadddegh was just a commie puppet, and hardly 'secular'. Your fantasy that the Shah was somehow worse than a Commie dictator controlled by the Soviets is delusional at best.

 

[JoeB131]

The USSR fell because the Soviets were nice people, right?

No, it fell because Ukrainians , Uzbeks, Lithuanians, no longer wanted to be ruled by Russians, and Russians themselves got tired of subsidizing the Warsaw Pact while waiting in line for consumer goods.

Not to worry, Trump's buddy Putin will bring it all back... or not.

 

[multivita-man]

It is amazing that leftists think Iran will meekly stop building their bomb program.

From Iran's perspective, building a bomb is the wise move, even if they risk total destruction to do it. They face certain destruction if they don't.

With Russian and EU backing, acting essentially as a counterweight to US influence, they had some incentive to suspend their weapons program in the hope that someone like Hillary Clinton could build on the relationship building that Obama had done. I am critical of Obama's foreign policy, which was his weakness as a president, but this was by far his biggest accomplishment. Obama was able to do something that neither GWB nor MAGA was able to do: get Iran to agree to inspections and get them to suspend their nuke weapons program.

Now? There's absolutely no incentive to do that. Iran doesn't trust the US, and Iran is finding increasing global support for its resistance to US pressure.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I think it was because USSR's economy was about the size of California's economy. It could not afford the war machine.

Neither can we. We need to eliminate 50% of the officers including 100% of the Woke Forces; cut an accounting of what cost us $2 Trillion. I suspect we have a secret space program