The 2015 Israeli legislative (Knesset) election thread

[gtopa1]

all that means is 76.71% of Israelis don't want Likud or Not and Yarhoo at all

You really don't understand how Israeli elections or politics work do you?

Elections No Way......Politics Yes...steve........if this sort of figure was cast in Australia.....then Likud would never be in power.....just sayin but then therein lies the difference between real Democracy......and the Banana Republic of Israel but then Australia are far more sophisticated,modern and forward thinking................unlike Medieval Israel.

Tell me the primary vote of Labour in the Qld election just gone? What sort of dill are you??

Greg

Well Gottcha LOL.......We have a Preferential System here and I will explain to you how Every Vote is counted.


Well Labour won brilliantly and picked up a load of seats.........the Liberals(Conservatives lost incredibly)

Labour 37.5%

Liberal 41.3%

Greens 8.4%

Palmer 5.1%

Katter 1.9%

One Nation .9%

Family 1ST 1.2%

Others 3.6% Would be numerous Parties......Firstly "the others being the smallest % TBCont

So the party that the majority of the people voted for lost to the second placed party. Or don't you see that 41.3% of the vote is more than 37.5% of the vote

Looks can be deceiving unfortunately. It's like a runoff election if no-one gets 50% + 1...but all on the same ballot paper. We lost fair and square; it is however a hung Parliament with the balance of Power in the hands of three independents. The cause? Dissent in the Conservative cause; disunity is death politically here.

Greg

 

[BullKurtz]

Unlike your paranoid delusions I know that Congress gets its own intel briefs separate and distinct from what the President receives on a daily basis. The President did not withhold anything from Congress on Iraq. He couldn't. And the different intel agencies which DEPEND on Congressional support would not lie for him. So much for THAT claim. As for TREATIES or agreements that abrogate Congressional action in the Foreign affairs matter the Senate MUST approve by a large margin the President does not have the authority or Constitutional power to act with out them in those regards. The President can not tell Congress that its sanctions of Iraq will be ended with out approval of Congress.

That's correct and when the most detailed and current intel on Saddam's WMDs were offered, only two Senators bothered going into the room to look at it, Coyote forgets the vast majority of democrats believed Saddam had WMDs and would use them. Bush was the only one who decided to do something about it. And as soon as the trouble started, the Rats jumped ship and condemned him for what they never had the guts to do.

 

[BullKurtz]

The intelligence agencies answer first to the President and information can be excluded from Congress or given only to select members.
Look up the history of Executive Agreements.
The sanctions are an international effort.

The Intel agencies (CIA, DIA, DHS) answer to the Joint Chiefs first, then the president, then select committee heads in Congress. The proposed deal with Iran is a treaty and by Constitutional dictate must be approved by the Senate...PERIOD.

 

[aris2chat]

A lot of people seem to be making this election out to be about Obama. That's pretty hilarious. Do Israeli voters go to the polls thinking hmmm....this candidate is too close to Obama, I'm not voting for him?

But they would go to the polls to think, how much is Obama going to risk the security of Israel in some agreement with Iran or lack of conviction against terrorists and radicals, and how can we compensate for it.

That's your mere opinion, nothing more. Give us something substantive.

WSJ Editorial Netanyahu s Victory Reflects Israel s Security Concerns The Tower

My opinion, my observation, my understanding of the situation.............

Guess is it not just my opinion.

 

[Coyote]

No. The Republicans made it about Obama by inviting Netanyahu to speak shortly before elections. Netanyahu then used that for his political campaign ad. Just as was predicted.

Ok, Obama allies getting out the anti- Netanyahu vote certainly didn't have anything to do with it. I'd like to thank Obama for helping Netanyahu with this great victory

Do you think it's a good thing for foreign politician to use an audience with our representatives for political campaigning? I don't.

People have made unsubstantiated allegations that Obama intervened in Israeli elections but so far have no actual evidence.

However we DO have actual evidence that the Republicans did - whether deliberately or not, they allowed Netanyahu to use them for his own political purposes as is clearly demonstrated by his use of it in a campaign advertisement (despite his blatent lie that this was not a campaign stunt).

Personally - I don't think Obama had much to do with the election outcome as I seriously doubt voters were focused on that, but maybe polling evidence will show differently.

No....Obama and his people directly interfered with Israel's election. State Dept money was funneled into opposition parties in an attempt to defeat Bibi. A high level Obama staffer was also actively working against Netanyahu.

You counter this with Bibi speaking before Congress? Sorry.
Nobody beats Obama and his people for utter corruption.


Source Senate panel probing possible Obama administration ties to anti-Netanyahu effort Fox News

You have:

• a planned "probe" based on a report that is attributed to a single anonymous source, with "knowledge of the panel’s activities"
  
• No named sources.
• Unanamed "top operatives of Obama’s White House"
• Unsubstantiated claims by Netanyahu
• Former campaign staffers (who are private citizens)

• A State Department grant, which ran out in November (well ahead of elections) and that ran out before the group in question (V15) even existed..

"Well, this is a report – just so people who haven’t followed this as closely know what the details are – about a group called OneVoice. The U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv provided a grant to OneVoice to promote dialogue and support for peace negotiations and a two-state solution. That grant ran from September of 2013 to November of 2014. During the period of the grant, as is standard practice, the U.S. Embassy approved OneVoice Israel’s implementation plan for the grant and monitored its performance. And, as is routine for such a grant, final payments are disbursed after the grantee provides documentation showing completion of the grant terms. Now you’ve learned more about U.S. Government grants than you ever thought you needed to know.

The grant ended before the advent of V15. It ended before there was a declaration of an Israeli election. We’ve seen the media reports about the activities of V15, but the embassy has not provided any funds, support, or direction to the group."​

• This, from the article: No direct link has been confirmed between Obama and the anti-Netanyahu campaign in Israel,
• and it's from Fox News.

This is your evidence

I counter it with Netanyahu disrespecting our - OUR - president, and using OUR Congress to make a campaign speech.

Other way around.
Congress invited him. Obama would not see him. It was Obama that snubbed Netanyahu.

You think Obama and Kerry being overseas was not political. You think their speeches to EU or Iran were any less of campaign speeches, or anti Netanyahu campaign speeches?

Obama would rather celebrate Iranian new year in the white house than support an ally from potential genocide because of his personal animosity.

Wrong order.

Obama would not see him, because it was too close to the election.
Congress invited him to snub Obama and Netanyahu accepted to snub Obama.
Netanyahu used that video from that meeting as part of his campaign ad.

Now tell me Obama was wrong to refuse to meet with him or that Netanyahu would not have used such a meeting for his campaign.

 

[Coyote]

The intelligence agencies answer first to the President and information can be excluded from Congress or given only to select members.
Look up the history of Executive Agreements.
The sanctions are an international effort.

The Intel agencies (CIA, DIA, DHS) answer to the Joint Chiefs first, then the president, then select committee heads in Congress. The proposed deal with Iran is a treaty and by Constitutional dictate must be approved by the Senate...PERIOD.

Look up the history of Executive Agreements by Presidents. You will see it has often been used in this manner and is perfectly legit.

 

[BullKurtz]

Look up the history of Executive Agreements by Presidents. You will see it has often been used in this manner and is perfectly legit.

I'm aware of executive agreements and know they have no basis in law, aren't worth the paper they're written on, and can be reversed without the other party's consent. This is the Senators' letter sole purpose....to remind the mullahs this or any agreement without Senate approval would expire the moment a new president walked into the Oval Office.

 

[Coyote]

A lot of people seem to be making this election out to be about Obama. That's pretty hilarious. Do Israeli voters go to the polls thinking hmmm....this candidate is too close to Obama, I'm not voting for him?

Obama made it partially about Obama

No. The Republicans made it about Obama by inviting Netanyahu to speak shortly before elections. Netanyahu then used that for his political campaign ad. Just as was predicted.

Seems like a fair trade when the U.S. State Department gave money to one voice defeat him.

Did they?

OneVoice and V15 worked together on Israeli political campaigns since 2013, long before any election was announced. They recieved a State Department grant which ended November 2014, again - before any election announcement. So how exactly could they be working to "defeat him" when there wasn't an election on the calendar?


There is also a long history of US political consultants working for Israeli political campaigns:
Bill Knapp, former Obama campaign strategist worked as an advisor to Netanyahu in the 2009 election
Josh Isay (who's firm worked for the Obama campaign and is now working for Netanyahu's campaign)
Arthur Finkelstein, a Republican strategist who worked for Netanyahu's campaign as well.

Where's the outrage?

 

[BullKurtz]

Did they?

OneVoice and V15 worked together on Israeli political campaigns since 2013, long before any election was announced. They recieved a State Department grant which ended November 2014, again - before any election announcement. So how exactly could they be working to "defeat him" when there wasn't an election on the calendar?


There is also a long history of US political consultants working for Israeli political campaigns:
Bill Knapp, former Obama campaign strategist worked as an advisor to Netanyahu in the 2009 election
Josh Isay (who's firm worked for the Obama campaign and is now working for Netanyahu's campaign)
Arthur Finkelstein, a Republican strategist who worked for Netanyahu's campaign as well.

Where's the outrage?

I'll answer that....never before have US taxpayer dollars gone into a political campaign in Israel...especially one to unseat a prime minister. You're trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[Coyote]

Did they?

OneVoice and V15 worked together on Israeli political campaigns since 2013, long before any election was announced. They recieved a State Department grant which ended November 2014, again - before any election announcement. So how exactly could they be working to "defeat him" when there wasn't an election on the calendar?


There is also a long history of US political consultants working for Israeli political campaigns:
Bill Knapp, former Obama campaign strategist worked as an advisor to Netanyahu in the 2009 election
Josh Isay (who's firm worked for the Obama campaign and is now working for Netanyahu's campaign)
Arthur Finkelstein, a Republican strategist who worked for Netanyahu's campaign as well.

Where's the outrage?

I'll answer that....never before have US taxpayer dollars gone into a political campaign in Israel...especially one to unseat a prime minister. You're trying to defend the indefensible.

Sit down Horshack.

Where have US taxpayer dollars gone into a campaign and where is the evidence that they were used to "unseat" a prime minister?

 

[BullKurtz]

Sit down Horshack.

Where have US taxpayer dollars gone into a campaign and where is the evidence that they were used to "unseat" a prime minister?

"Horshack"? Look, your boy king got caught with his pants down again....seems he can't get out of his own way when he tries to go Chicago in another country. The money trail is already proven and the parties in question have asked the IRS for a new classification so they can subvert governments legally. I'd say nice try but c'mon....he took a shot at Bibi and missed.

 

[Mindful]

Obama made it partially about Obama

No. The Republicans made it about Obama by inviting Netanyahu to speak shortly before elections. Netanyahu then used that for his political campaign ad. Just as was predicted.

Ok, Obama allies getting out the anti- Netanyahu vote certainly didn't have anything to do with it. I'd like to thank Obama for helping Netanyahu with this great victory

Do you think it's a good thing for foreign politician to use an audience with our representatives for political campaigning? I don't.

People have made unsubstantiated allegations that Obama intervened in Israeli elections but so far have no actual evidence.

However we DO have actual evidence that the Republicans did - whether deliberately or not, they allowed Netanyahu to use them for his own political purposes as is clearly demonstrated by his use of it in a campaign advertisement (despite his blatent lie that this was not a campaign stunt).

Personally - I don't think Obama had much to do with the election outcome as I seriously doubt voters were focused on that, but maybe polling evidence will show differently.

No....Obama and his people directly interfered with Israel's election. State Dept money was funneled into opposition parties in an attempt to defeat Bibi. A high level Obama staffer was also actively working against Netanyahu.

You counter this with Bibi speaking before Congress? Sorry.
Nobody beats Obama and his people for utter corruption.


Source Senate panel probing possible Obama administration ties to anti-Netanyahu effort Fox News

You have:

• a planned "probe" based on a report that is attributed to a single anonymous source, with "knowledge of the panel’s activities"
  
• No named sources.
• Unanamed "top operatives of Obama’s White House"
• Unsubstantiated claims by Netanyahu
• Former campaign staffers (who are private citizens)

• A State Department grant, which ran out in November (well ahead of elections) and that ran out before the group in question (V15) even existed..

"Well, this is a report – just so people who haven’t followed this as closely know what the details are – about a group called OneVoice. The U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv provided a grant to OneVoice to promote dialogue and support for peace negotiations and a two-state solution. That grant ran from September of 2013 to November of 2014. During the period of the grant, as is standard practice, the U.S. Embassy approved OneVoice Israel’s implementation plan for the grant and monitored its performance. And, as is routine for such a grant, final payments are disbursed after the grantee provides documentation showing completion of the grant terms. Now you’ve learned more about U.S. Government grants than you ever thought you needed to know.

The grant ended before the advent of V15. It ended before there was a declaration of an Israeli election. We’ve seen the media reports about the activities of V15, but the embassy has not provided any funds, support, or direction to the group."​

• This, from the article: No direct link has been confirmed between Obama and the anti-Netanyahu campaign in Israel,
• and it's from Fox News.

This is your evidence

I counter it with Netanyahu disrespecting our - OUR - president, and using OUR Congress to make a campaign speech.

I seem to recall Obama making his campaign speech in Berlin. Before he even had the nomination. And thinking to myself: what a cheek. Who does he think he is?

 

[Lipush]

Did they?

OneVoice and V15 worked together on Israeli political campaigns since 2013, long before any election was announced. They recieved a State Department grant which ended November 2014, again - before any election announcement. So how exactly could they be working to "defeat him" when there wasn't an election on the calendar?


There is also a long history of US political consultants working for Israeli political campaigns:
Bill Knapp, former Obama campaign strategist worked as an advisor to Netanyahu in the 2009 election
Josh Isay (who's firm worked for the Obama campaign and is now working for Netanyahu's campaign)
Arthur Finkelstein, a Republican strategist who worked for Netanyahu's campaign as well.

Where's the outrage?

I'll answer that....never before have US taxpayer dollars gone into a political campaign in Israel...especially one to unseat a prime minister. You're trying to defend the indefensible.

Sit down Horshack.

Where have US taxpayer dollars gone into a campaign and where is the evidence that they were used to "unseat" a prime minister?

Wouldn't suprise me if it was true. Even without evidence.

 

[aris2chat]

Did they?

OneVoice and V15 worked together on Israeli political campaigns since 2013, long before any election was announced. They recieved a State Department grant which ended November 2014, again - before any election announcement. So how exactly could they be working to "defeat him" when there wasn't an election on the calendar?


There is also a long history of US political consultants working for Israeli political campaigns:
Bill Knapp, former Obama campaign strategist worked as an advisor to Netanyahu in the 2009 election
Josh Isay (who's firm worked for the Obama campaign and is now working for Netanyahu's campaign)
Arthur Finkelstein, a Republican strategist who worked for Netanyahu's campaign as well.

Where's the outrage?

I'll answer that....never before have US taxpayer dollars gone into a political campaign in Israel...especially one to unseat a prime minister. You're trying to defend the indefensible.

Sit down Horshack.

Where have US taxpayer dollars gone into a campaign and where is the evidence that they were used to "unseat" a prime minister?

Wouldn't suprise me if it was true. Even without evidence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/us/politics/24text-obama.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[direwolf]

few months before the election of 2008 obama was visiting in israel and south of israel.
i am sure it was to gaet the joish voice in the electuion

 

[Coyote]

Did they?

OneVoice and V15 worked together on Israeli political campaigns since 2013, long before any election was announced. They recieved a State Department grant which ended November 2014, again - before any election announcement. So how exactly could they be working to "defeat him" when there wasn't an election on the calendar?


There is also a long history of US political consultants working for Israeli political campaigns:
Bill Knapp, former Obama campaign strategist worked as an advisor to Netanyahu in the 2009 election
Josh Isay (who's firm worked for the Obama campaign and is now working for Netanyahu's campaign)
Arthur Finkelstein, a Republican strategist who worked for Netanyahu's campaign as well.

Where's the outrage?

I'll answer that....never before have US taxpayer dollars gone into a political campaign in Israel...especially one to unseat a prime minister. You're trying to defend the indefensible.

Sit down Horshack.

Where have US taxpayer dollars gone into a campaign and where is the evidence that they were used to "unseat" a prime minister?

Wouldn't suprise me if it was true. Even without evidence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/us/politics/24text-obama.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

What does an article from July 2008 have to do with this?

 

[aris2chat]

Did they?

OneVoice and V15 worked together on Israeli political campaigns since 2013, long before any election was announced. They recieved a State Department grant which ended November 2014, again - before any election announcement. So how exactly could they be working to "defeat him" when there wasn't an election on the calendar?


There is also a long history of US political consultants working for Israeli political campaigns:
Bill Knapp, former Obama campaign strategist worked as an advisor to Netanyahu in the 2009 election
Josh Isay (who's firm worked for the Obama campaign and is now working for Netanyahu's campaign)
Arthur Finkelstein, a Republican strategist who worked for Netanyahu's campaign as well.

Where's the outrage?

I'll answer that....never before have US taxpayer dollars gone into a political campaign in Israel...especially one to unseat a prime minister. You're trying to defend the indefensible.

Sit down Horshack.

Where have US taxpayer dollars gone into a campaign and where is the evidence that they were used to "unseat" a prime minister?

Wouldn't suprise me if it was true. Even without evidence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/us/politics/24text-obama.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

What does an article from July 2008 have to do with this?

senator obama speech in berlin while he was running for president

 

[Coyote]

I'll answer that....never before have US taxpayer dollars gone into a political campaign in Israel...especially one to unseat a prime minister. You're trying to defend the indefensible.

Sit down Horshack.

Where have US taxpayer dollars gone into a campaign and where is the evidence that they were used to "unseat" a prime minister?

Wouldn't suprise me if it was true. Even without evidence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/us/politics/24text-obama.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

What does an article from July 2008 have to do with this?

senator obama speech in berlin while he was running for president

Almost 5 months before the election. How is that comparable with Netanyahu's speech on March 3, two weeks prior to the Israeli elections and using that in his campaign ad?

 

[gtopa1]

Did they?

OneVoice and V15 worked together on Israeli political campaigns since 2013, long before any election was announced. They recieved a State Department grant which ended November 2014, again - before any election announcement. So how exactly could they be working to "defeat him" when there wasn't an election on the calendar?


There is also a long history of US political consultants working for Israeli political campaigns:
Bill Knapp, former Obama campaign strategist worked as an advisor to Netanyahu in the 2009 election
Josh Isay (who's firm worked for the Obama campaign and is now working for Netanyahu's campaign)
Arthur Finkelstein, a Republican strategist who worked for Netanyahu's campaign as well.

Where's the outrage?

I'll answer that....never before have US taxpayer dollars gone into a political campaign in Israel...especially one to unseat a prime minister. You're trying to defend the indefensible.

Sit down Horshack.

Where have US taxpayer dollars gone into a campaign and where is the evidence that they were used to "unseat" a prime minister?

Wouldn't suprise me if it was true. Even without evidence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/us/politics/24text-obama.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I really chuckled at this bit.

I come to Berlin as so many of my countrymen have come before.

Had to laugh!!

Greg

 

[Coyote]

Here's an interesting update - and another possible flip flop for Bibi?

Bennett to Benjamin Netanyahu No coalition without pledge to rule out Palestinian state - Israel News - Jerusalem Post