That WAS The Democratic and Repubican Party

[struth]

Really? You naturally have "rights", without a human community giving you any rights or protecting them through its government authorities? Why doesn't nature respect or protect your supposed "right to life"? You're confusing human empathy with "rights", or the cause of rights, with the rights themselves. Rights are defined and granted by the authorities of a community and then protected based on you meeting the qualifications for those rights.

If you commit a capital crime you might forfeit your right to live. If you're connected to a machine in the hospital's ICU, you might lose your right to live. Those rules are created by the community and applied to you according to the circumstances. They're not written on cosmic tablets in the heavens.

You don't have a right to life, or health, or housing, healthcare, an education, unless the community determines that you do. If you want to believe otherwise, go right ahead. Believe whatever nonsense toots your horn.

Yes, I am not sure why you aren't getting this, you are born with certain rights....Thomas Jefferson wrote about it in the Declaration....the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happniess....these rights didn't come from a Govt, or other people, we were born with them.

 

[Red Front]

Yes, I am not sure why you aren't getting this, you are born with certain rights....Thomas Jefferson wrote about it in the Declaration....the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happniess....these rights didn't come from a Govt, or other people, we were born with them.

You're failing to mention the only source of those rights, apart from nature. Nature without this ultimate source, doesn't give anyone rights. So if you don't have the courage to mention the only source of rights apart from a community or earthly government, then you're left with nothing. Nature doesn't give anyone rights, including a "right to live".

 

[struth]

You're failing to mention the only source of those rights, apart from nature. Nature without this ultimate source, doesn't give anyone rights. So if you don't have the courage to mention the only source of rights apart from a community or earthly government, then you're left with nothing. Nature doesn't give anyone rights, including a "right to live".

Sure it does. Govt can’t give people rights, since govt only exist because of people.

Read what Jefferson wrote in the declaration

 

[Curried Goats]

Sure it does. Govt can’t give people rights, since govt only exist because of people.

Read what Jefferson wrote in the declaration

People can write whatever they want it doesn't make it real. Someone wrote Harry Potter, is that real?

 

[struth]

People can write whatever they want it doesn't make it real. Someone wrote Harry Potter, is that real?

If you mean, iks the book Harry Potter real? Yes it is.

Just like the Declaration of Independence is real.

 

[Curried Goats]

If you mean, iks the book Harry Potter real? Yes it is.

Just like the Declaration of Independence is real.

All books are real in that they exist. That doesn't mean everything in them is fact.

 

[struth]

All books are real in that they exist. That doesn't mean everything in them is fact.

True Harry Potter is a novel, the Declaration of Independence is not a novel. Are you suggesting the Declaration of Independence is a work of fiction????

Maybe that's where we are having a break down, in that you don't believe in freedom....

 

[Curried Goats]

True Harry Potter is a novel, the Declaration of Independence is not a novel. Are you suggesting the Declaration of Independence is a work of fiction????

Maybe that's where we are having a break down, in that you don't believe in freedom....

It a political document not a science text and they expect questions and criticism because their aims are the facts.

 

[struth]

It a political document not a science text and they expect questions and criticism because their aims are the facts.

Oh of course they expected questions and critisms, they got a lot....literally the King refused to believe it, and went to war with them over it.

but just because it's not a work of science, doesn't mean it's fiction.

It really undermined the King, and other tyrantical regimes and thinkers. Tyrantical regimes do not like the idea that people are born free, and that Govt only exist because of free people.

 

[Curried Goats]

Oh of course they expected questions and critisms, they got a lot....literally the King refused to believe it, and went to war with them over it.

but just because it's not a work of science, doesn't mean it's fiction.

It really undermined the King, and other tyrantical regimes and thinkers. Tyrantical regimes do not like the idea that people are born free, and that Govt only exist because of free people.

And just because a King didn't like it doesn't mean it's a fact. Do you know how logic and reason work? Appeals to authority aren't examples of them.

 

[struth]

And just because a King didn't like it doesn't mean it's a fact. Do you know how logic and reason work? Appeals to authority aren't examples of them.

Doesn’t mean what’s a fact?

I do, it’s illogical to think that rights come from a govt, unless of course you don’t think people are free and have a right to Liberty

 

[Curried Goats]

Doesn’t mean what’s a fact?

I do, it’s illogical to think that rights come from a govt, unless of course you don’t think people are free and have a right to Liberty

Of course legal rights come from government. Law makers write and pass the laws and the criminal justice system upholds them. We can follow this entire process from start to finish. If you have a better explanation for where legal rights come from then let's here it. As for rights other than legal rights I don't know what you mean. So far you haven't given a rational argument for them even existing in the first place. A rational argument doesn't end in a question. It's a declarative statement not an expression of confusion.

 

[Red Front]

Sure it does. Govt can’t give people rights, since govt only exist because of people.

Read what Jefferson wrote in the declaration

Nature doesn't give anyone rights, no one is born with them. A community of people, who often have a government or recognized authorities, grant and protect the rights of its citizens. Jefferson didn't believe it was "nature" that grants people rights, but God—a transcendental, absolute authority with a kingdom or government. If you don't believe that divine authority granted people their basic rights or an earthly community of human beings, then you have no rights.

Mother nature is a biatch, she doesn't grant rights, but she will provide you with some instinctual patterns of thought and behavior that will keep you from danger, increasing your chances of survival. Those aren't rights they're inherent abilities that contribute to your survival. Your ability to feel pain, and sense a potential predator lurking in the dark, your propensity for social interaction and cooperating with other human beings. All of these attributes that most human beings possess are natural endowments. Rights are given by an earthly community or its authorities/government or a divine, heavenly authority, namely God. Nature doesn't create or protect rights.

Jefferson was a Deist, who believed in God. The source of rights according to him is God, not mother nature.

 

[struth]

Of course legal rights come from government. Law makers write and pass the laws and the criminal justice system upholds them. We can follow this entire process from start to finish. If you have a better explanation for where legal rights come from then let's here it. As for rights other than legal rights I don't know what you mean. So far you haven't given a rational argument for them even existing in the first place. A rational argument doesn't end in a question. It's a declarative statement not an expression of confusion.

Haha no rights don’t come from govt. govt doesn’t make us free

 

[struth]

Nature doesn't give anyone rights, no one is born with them. A community of people, who often have a government or recognized authorities, grant and protect the rights of its citizens. Jefferson didn't believe it was "nature" that grants people rights, but God—a transcendental, absolute authority with a kingdom or government. If you don't believe that divine authority granted people their basic rights or an earthly community of human beings, then you have no rights.

Mother nature is a biatch, she doesn't grant rights, but she will provide you with some instinctual patterns of thought and behavior that will keep you from danger, increasing your chances of survival. Those aren't rights they're inherent abilities that contribute to your survival. Your ability to feel pain, and sense a potential predator lurking in the dark, your propensity for social interaction and cooperating with other human beings. All of these attributes that most human beings possess are natural endowments. Rights are given by an earthly community or its authorities/government or a divine, heavenly authority, namely God. Nature doesn't create or protect rights.

Jefferson was a Deist, who believed in God. The source of rights according to him is God, not mother nature.

Yes I get leftist believe people aren’t born free.

You are the one talking about Mother Nature. Not me. I have simply said we are born with them. Jefferson believed they came from a God, I don’t disagree with him

 

[Curried Goats]

Haha no rights don’t come from govt. govt doesn’t make us free

No, government doesn't make us free. In fact government limits freedom. If you want to argue that you have unlimited freedom in nature then that I won't disagree with. Freedom however isn't the same thing as rights. Government and society take some of your freedoms in exchange for rights. For example in nature there is now law against killing you and so I am free to do so without consequence (beyond your theoretical ability to resist). In a society with laws I lose the freedom to kill people but I gain the right to have society and government protect me from murder and punish those who would attempt it on my behalf.

 

[Batcat]

The white race paid no price whatsoever for ending slavery. None. They've been patting themselves on the back for having dones so ever since though.

Being white and born in the 40's, I couldn't believe how blacks were treated in a nation which called itself the "Home of the brave, and the land of the Free". Crosses being burned on people's laws. Lynchings. The fight for the black vote. Segregation.

In a nation where all men are created equal?????? Even as a child I could see that "Separate but equal" was flat out bullshit.

Blacks are still fighting for equal treatment under the law, and reparations are still due for all.

A large number of Union soldiers died in the Civil War. One estimate is 360,222. That doesn’t count the number wounded.

How Many Died in the American Civil War? | HISTORY

The U.S. Civil War was the nation's deadliest conflict, but debate remains over the total estimate of fatalities.

www.history.com

Most Union soldiers were white so I will argue Yankee whites paid a hell of a price to end slavery.

 

[Dragonlady]

A large number of Union soldiers died in the Civil War. One estimate is 360,222. That doesn’t count the number wounded.

How Many Died in the American Civil War? | HISTORY

The U.S. Civil War was the nation's deadliest conflict, but debate remains over the total estimate of fatalities.

www.history.com

Most Union soldiers were white so I will argue Yankee whites paid a hell of a price to end slavery.

As did a lot of Confederate soliders. I'm talking about the economic price paid by black people, not just for slavery, but Jim Crow, the 1920's race riots, and the continuing and ongoing of unequal treatment, red lining, and other racist bullshit that goes on to this day.

 

[struth]

No, government doesn't make us free. In fact government limits freedom. If you want to argue that you have unlimited freedom in nature then that I won't disagree with. Freedom however isn't the same thing as rights. Government and society take some of your freedoms in exchange for rights. For example in nature there is now law against killing you and so I am free to do so without consequence (beyond your theoretical ability to resist). In a society with laws I lose the freedom to kill people but I gain the right to have society and government protect me from murder and punish those who would attempt it on my behalf.

Correct Govt limits freedom, we give up some of our liberty, a right we are born with, to Govt.

Thanks

 

[Curried Goats]

Correct Govt limits freedom, we give up some of our liberty, a right we are born with, to Govt.

Thanks

That's not a right you're born with it's a feature of human biology that you have independent thoughts and actions.