Terrorist warfare

[preemptingyou03]

Are we witnessing a new kind of warfare? Rather than guerilla warfare, I think we have entered a new phase of warfare: terrorist warfare.

Everyone is saying, "isn't the war over?" "Why are we still being shot at?" "How can more people die during 'peace' than the 'war'?"

I think the answer is this: the literal invasion of Afghanistan was from October until December of 2001, and for Iraq it was March until April of 2003. That was the "literal" war. But we're still losing troops. What is happening in these nations is the War on Terror: the two main fronts. And unlike guerilla warfare, we've entered the terrorists' kind of war... terrorist warfare.

We're fighting them where they sleep and live. The losses we are experiencing today in Fallujah aren't for nothing. They are for the cause of defeating terrorism and winning the terrorist war in Iraq.

Comparisons to Vietnam are bogus. First of all, the VC didn't sponsor terrorists and use WMD. Iraq has a Governing Council and has made a Constitution. Iraq, in the span of a year, is ahead of Germany, Italy, and Japan post-WWII.

We lost 115,000 troops a year in WWII, against the Nazis.

We lost 55,000 troops a year in Korea.

We lost 6,000 troops a year in Vietnam.

Let's stop comparing Iraq to Vietnam. Iraq is Iraq. Plus, during Vietnam, our policy wasn't preemption. Iraq may not even be front page news in a year or two. Iran or Syria may be. North Korea may be.

People are simply afraid of where we're going. They feel we'll be attacked again. They feel we'll go to war again. They are afraid we're not winning hearts and minds.

We must look ahead to the future and endure these times. We must have a sustained will. We must be sure that the "hearts and minds" part will come, in due time. For now though, it is about survival. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi wants us dead. Osama bin Laden wants us dead. Mullah Omar wants us dead. These militias in Iraq want us dead.

Rather than suggest our enemy is misunderstood or misguided, let's understand the enemy... learn him, study him, know him... then kill him. We are the terrorists' enemy, therefore, they are ours. When will people accept this?

 

[preemptingyou03]

Does anybody think this guy Sistani can really, really help us? It is said only 1% of Shia's follow this guy Sadr... the majority believe Sistani's the real deal.

If there were elections tomorrow, Sistani would be president of Iraq.

And he's pro-American, pro-democracy, anti-violence. But he's 75 years old... we need more people like this to stand up! Sistani wants the UN to get more involved, and I understand why. He's calling for calm right now in the region.

This guy Sadr's gotta go. This militia of his has to be put down now. Sistani has to start voicing his opinion more. We need to regain the imagination of the Iraqis.

We must be an end to this shit in Iraq. Iraqis have been given an OPPORTUNITY to have OPPORTUNITY. USE IT!

 

[Scourge]

I don't know man, I think there were a lot of Iraqi's who just chilled when the invasion began and now are becoming more and more hostile. It's not pro-Saddam people so much as anti-invading army people.

If someone invaded my town and killed my family I would drive a truck loaded with explosives into their midst in a heartbeat. Even if I hated my former dictator, it's about defending your country. Wouldn't you do the same? I mean if the whle world hated Bush and tried to remove him and they invaded you'd still fight, right? Know matter what your politics are.

 

[NewGuy]

You guys have to realize something. Terrorist cells are the superior warfare model.

Add that to a faith where you are being held in the highest esteem by being a martyr as it grants you great things in "paradise".

When combined, this situation can NEVER be defeated.

The best you can hope for is to break even.

Israel is a prime example.

 

[Scourge]

Those people who are following Sadr have an outlet for their rage, he didn't CREATE anti-US feelings, we did. But he's sure harnessing those feelings. And if we attack him and (God forbid) kill him, there'd be thousands of followers waiting to avenge his death... kind of a lose-lose scenario.

 

[preemptingyou03]

Did you just say God forbid kill Sadr?

Listen... inflaming radicalism will happen while fighting terrorism. The hearts and minds will be won. Count on that. But as for now, we must dismantle Sadr's militia, and we must shoot Sadr in the head on national television.

We created anti-US feelings? How? We've lost 600 soldiers trying to bring democracy and stability to these people. We liberated 25 million people.

You make it seem like we intentionally kill civilians. Yes, civilians died. And yes, I'm sure the family members of those civilians are mad. Then again, more civilians died under Saddam than during our invasion. I mean... if we fight terrorism and it inflames radicalism, so be it.

Right now we must fight. Winning comes later.

 

[gaffer]

Originally posted by Scourge
I don't know man, I think there were a lot of Iraqi's who just chilled when the invasion began and now are becoming more and more hostile. It's not pro-Saddam people so much as anti-invading army people.

If someone invaded my town and killed my family I would drive a truck loaded with explosives into their midst in a heartbeat. Even if I hated my former dictator, it's about defending your country. Wouldn't you do the same? I mean if the whle world hated Bush and tried to remove him and they invaded you'd still fight, right? Know matter what your politics are.

Fullujah is full of former saddam supporters. Thats what's being dealt with here. Nothing more than that. The rest of the country is fine except for a couple of spots where radical islamists have a hold and they are being dealt with too. Have you noticed since this offensive started there havn't been any convoys attacked or other bombings,Most of those insergents are bottled up in Fullujah now. It has nothing to do with defending their country, its the fact they want their power back. Kinda like the democrates here, except they use guns and the democrates use lies.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by gaffer
<SNIP>Kinda like the democrates here, except they use guns and the democrates use lies.

Hey thats slander. The dems don't lie, they just have a different version of the truth.......

 

[gaffer]

Originally posted by NewGuy
You guys have to realize something. Terrorist cells are the superior warfare model.

Add that to a faith where you are being held in the highest esteem by being a martyr as it grants you great things in "paradise".

When combined, this situation can NEVER be defeated.

The best you can hope for is to break even.

Israel is a prime example.

There's nothing superior about terrorists. The are lowlife scum, nothing more. They don't have a faith, they have lies and hatred. They WILL be defeated.

You should study history more. Another country country used the martyr system as well. It was called the empire of japan. They had the bushito code which dated back hundreds of years. Dying in the service of the emporer was an automatic trip to heaven. There were millions of them who thought this way. But in the end we defeated them. We rebuilt the country, re-educated them and they are now a strong ally.

Since you think the terrors can never be defeated I suggest yu go hide under your bed until the war is over. We'll call you when its safe to come out.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by gaffer
There's nothing superior about terrorists. The are lowlife scum, nothing more. They don't have a faith, they have lies and hatred. They WILL be defeated.

Ok....wake up and read the Koran. The people you are talking about have a faith they proclaim. It is Islam. It MIGHT be helpful to know what that is since they die for it.

You should study history more. Another country country used the martyr system as well. It was called the empire of japan. They had the bushito code which dated back hundreds of years. Dying in the service of the emporer was an automatic trip to heaven. There were millions of them who thought this way. But in the end we defeated them. We rebuilt the country, re-educated them and they are now a strong ally.

They didn't do it from a religious base which conquered the world by sword in the past already, now did they?

Since you think the terrors can never be defeated I suggest yu go hide under your bed until the war is over. We'll call you when its safe to come out.

Since your assumptions appear to result from ignorance,I will let you have your tirade. When you understand logic, have a grasp of politics, religion, and MAYBE how to PROVE your point, I will discuss it further.

 

[preemptingyou03]

When combined, this situation can NEVER be defeated.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Terrorism is a tactic of killing. That, I'll give you, it can never be defeated. We will never stop anybody from wanting to go into a mall to blow himself up. The tactics of terrorism have been controlled by political and religious radical beliefs throughout history. However today, radical Islam has harnessed the tactics of it better than any group of people in world history. No, not all Muslims are terrorists, but the overwhelming majority of terrorists are Islamic jihadists.

Every terrorist network must be dismantled. Their camps must be destroyed. Their funds must be cut. Their leaders must be captured. After al-Qaeda, we're on to Hezbollah. And if Syria wishes to defend Hezbollah, the Baathist regime in Syria will be militarily removed. It is just that simple.

Individual terrorists must be hunted down in a worldwide law enforcement, intelligence gathering, international cooperative campaign. And they are. Thousands have been killed. Thousands are behind bars.

There are only a handful of states and regimes that actually sponsor and support these lowlife terrorists. Afghanistan was one. It no longer does. Iraq was one. It no longer does. Pakistan was one. It no longer does. Saudi Arabia was one. It no longer does. Libya was one. It no longer does. Egypt was one. It no longer does. Indonesia was one. It no longer does. Yemen was one. It no longer does.

President Bush has taken the threat of non-geographical enemies, something very hard to deal with, and made it into a geographical fight. We've had overwhelming victories in dealing with state sponsorship. We still have to crush aspects within the Saudi government, within the Pakistani government, and within the boundaries of Afghanistan and Iraq.

We are in the terrorists' war now. The Afghan war, (Op. Enduring Freedom) ended in late 2001 and Op. Iraqi Freedom ended in April/May of 2003. But as we try to defeat radicalism within those nations, we've entered into a new era of not guerrilla warfare, but terrorist warfare.

And while our troops are dying, Mr. Kerry seems to think Sadr has a legitimate voice. Then he reversed himself. What the hell else is new...

It shocks me to believe this guy is running to lead the free world in our history's most crucial time. If he gets in, it will say a lot about what George Carlin calls "the pussification of America."

 

[NewGuy]

NEWGUY:When combined, this situation can NEVER be defeated.

preemptingyou03: Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Terrorism is a tactic of killing. That, I'll give you, it can never be defeated. We will never stop anybody from wanting to go into a mall to blow himself up. The tactics of terrorism have been controlled by political and religious radical beliefs throughout history. However today, radical Islam has harnessed the tactics of it better than any group of people in world history. No, not all Muslims are terrorists, but the overwhelming majority of terrorists are Islamic jihadists.

Now that you are done telling me I was wrong, and proving my point, what did you have to say?

 

[preemptingyou03]

Terrorism will be defeated when the threat of terrorism is defeated and that will happen when the ideology of terrorism is destroyed.

The tactics of terrorism won't. They can't. You made it seem as if we cannot win the War on Terror. That's like saying the capturing and killing all of those who do drive-by-shootings, won't put an end to drive-by-shootings. It'll put an end to the threat of it. But anyone will be able to do it whenever they please.

Communism still exists post-Cold War, yet the threat of communism was destroyed.

That's what a post-War on Terror will look like in regards to terrorism... and that'll be sometime between the years 2030 and 2050.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by preemptingyou03
Terrorism will be defeated when the threat of terrorism is defeated and that will happen when the ideology of terrorism is destroyed.

You obviously know nothing about their faith.

The tactics of terrorism won't. They can't. You made it seem as if we cannot win the War on Terror. That's like saying the capturing and killing all of those who do drive-by-shootings, won't put an end to drive-by-shootings. It'll put an end to the threat of it. But anyone will be able to do it whenever they please.

According to what you just said, the only weak link is their belief system. Since you nknow nothing about that, and it is infact, their STRONGEST point, that invalidates your argument.

Communism still exists post-Cold War, yet the threat of communism was destroyed.

You know nothing about the EU either, then.

That's what a post-War on Terror will look like in regards to terrorism... and that'll be sometime between the years 2030 and 2050.

Boy are you in for a rude awakening.

 

[preemptingyou03]

I know their faith doesn't permit people to fly full planes into full buildings. And I know when people in the Middle East are living in a better world, this warped version of their faith will be ancient history much the way radical Christianity was after the Crusades.

And no, I am not in for a rude awakening because I understand the threat and danger. I know this will last decades. Those that feel 9/11 was a one-time fluke are in for a rude awakening. Those that think we're stopping after Afghanistan and Iraq are in for a rude awakening. Those that think this will be over the day we catch bin Laden, are in for a rude awakening.

I've never been more aware and awake in my life.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by preemptingyou03
I know their faith doesn't permit people to fly full planes into full buildings. And I know when people in the Middle East are living in a better world, this warped version of their faith will be ancient history much the way radical Christianity was after the Crusades.

You know NOTHING of their faith. It claims that all people must DIE if they do not believe that Allah is God. It claims that martyrdom is the only SURE way into "paradise", their version of heaven. It claims that followers of Christ, Jews and followers or supporters of Jews must also be killed.

-And HOW does that support the whole "plane thing" you present?

Learn history, the crusades were NOT Christianity based. That was a manuever of CATHOLOCISM, not Christianity.

And no, I am not in for a rude awakening because I understand the threat and danger. I know this will last decades.

Actually, you don't have the script. You are misinformed.

Those that feel 9/11 was a one-time fluke are in for a rude awakening. Those that think we're stopping after Afghanistan and Iraq are in for a rude awakening. Those that think this will be over the day we catch bin Laden, are in for a rude awakening.

Agreed.

I've never been more aware and awake in my life.

As long as you believe that, you will never understand the problem, much less the solution.

 

[preemptingyou03]

So you believe Islam is the problem? So on April 9th of last year, when Iraqis were hugging and kissing our troops, and pulling down Saddam's statue, should we have shot those Iraqis? I know Islam isn't the problem. Radical Islam is.

Much the way radicalism conquered a sector of Christianity (Catholics) during the Crusades, the same holds true today.

You say you agree with me that this will take a long time and we're not stopping after Iraq, etc, etc... but then you tell me I "don't have the script" after I say it will last decades. Explain your inconsistent charges.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by preemptingyou03
So you believe Islam is the problem? So on April 9th of last year, when Iraqis were hugging and kissing our troops, and pulling down Saddam's statue, should we have shot those Iraqis? I know Islam isn't the problem. Radical Islam is.

You are spilling regurgitated sound bites at me. Read the Koran. Followers of a faith who believe their texts are not "radicals" they are the norm. Those who DO NOT READ their texts and believe what they want are the radicals.

Much the way radicalism conquered a sector of Christianity (Catholics) during the Crusades, the same holds true today.

NO. Catholocisms teachings have always been steeped in ritualistic practices to gain salvation. Their doctrine was NEVER radical, nor Christian. Catholocism was a justification for a group of people to gain power and money over the masses.

This has nothing to do with the way Islam is spread or what Islam is about. -NOr what any followers do.

You say you agree with me that this will take a long time and we're not stopping after Iraq, etc, etc... but then you tell me I "don't have the script" after I say it will last decades. Explain your inconsistent charges. [/B]

1. Islam is rooted now into government law in Canada.
2. Islam is being put into the same situation in the EU as Canada.
3. The EU is starting to dominate in place of the US.

The only thing left to adress is the "script". That would be Biblical prophecy that tells of how Islam will be blended with catholocism for a one world religion promoted by the EU.

When you have the script for the entire play, you can just sit back and watch knowing exactly where things will go.

 

[Scourge]

Originally posted by preemptingyou03
Did you just say God forbid kill Sadr?

Listen... inflaming radicalism will happen while fighting terrorism. The hearts and minds will be won. Count on that. But as for now, we must dismantle Sadr's militia, and we must shoot Sadr in the head on national television.

We created anti-US feelings? How? We've lost 600 soldiers trying to bring democracy and stability to these people. We liberated 25 million people.

You make it seem like we intentionally kill civilians. Yes, civilians died. And yes, I'm sure the family members of those civilians are mad. Then again, more civilians died under Saddam than during our invasion. I mean... if we fight terrorism and it inflames radicalism, so be it.

Right now we must fight. Winning comes later.

First point: Killing Sadr (God forbid) was not meant in defence of his life as it was meant in not making him a martyr... understand?

Second: Yes we created anti-US feelings by invading a sovereign nation. I hope nobody decides to liberate you or me. I love how CNN labels Iraqi's defending their towns as 'enemies'. Is that what you are if you try and repel an invading army?

We lost 600 soldiers? And some contractors? How many iraqis did we liberate into another plane of existence? 6000? 13000? More?

And lastly if democracy is the will of the people, why did we APPOINTING a governing council? Where's the vote?

 

[Scourge]

Originally posted by NewGuy


1. Islam is rooted now into government law in Canada.

Huh? what are you talking about? The civil judiciary designed to reslove some civil disputes? Like inheritance/divorce that is SUPERCEDED by Canadian law in any conflict of ideals?

And any Canadian court can over turn ANY ruling WITHOUT objection.
And in this Islamic 'court' both parties HAVE TO AGREE on the verdict.


or was it something else?