..Temporary Jobs Becoming a Permanent Fixture in US
- Thread starter Spoonman
- Start date
They shouldn't have touched it until they had a REAL plan in place, that everyone could agree on, not just the Dems! They should have waited until the economy was good enough to handle it. Now all this is going to do is make the economy worse, when it's already in bad shape anyway! They were in such a hurry to say they were the ones to put this through, then they lied about the costs, lied about being able to keep your doctor, we find out the "penalty" is actually a TAX (which Obama said he would NOT do - another lie!), he wants the IRS involved (which I'm sure so many are just extremely happy about!).
We did need change to our healthcare, but not this monstrosity they came up with which is going to do nothing buy put more people out of work.
Cookie
Member
What I find ironic is all the back and forth arguing about Obamacare and which major party created the "medical crisis". Both contributed to make healthcare scarce and costly. Both bowed to the insurance companies. Obamacare addressed NONE of the current tax policies that led us to this point. It only made things worse. The problem has been building for DECADES.
Let's take a fresh approach so we can address the real issues behind how we got to where we are today.
Back in the 1930's, employees generally didn't have health insurance. They paid for medical care out of pocket as situations came up. People who couldn't afford medical care didn't get good medical care. Those who could afford medical care, lived longer and healthier - they also could afford insurance but such policies were rare. If you were lucky, you worked for a company that employed a company doctor. This trend increased because employers saw that productivity improved if employees were healthy enough to actually show up. Some would say, why didn't they just hire someone else if an employee got sick. Well, the answer is because hiring is expensive, often businesses had access to a limited employee pool and it was better for business to keep experienced employees.
Eventually, in the 1940's innovation insurance companies (Blue Cross / Blue Shield) lobbied Congress to make health insurance premiums a tax deduction - FOR EMPLOYERS. You have to ask why? Well, it was much easier for insurance companies to market to employers. They were the ones who could capture a portion of the employee's wages before the paycheck was issued. And by marketing to an entity that had a pool of insured, instead of individuals, the risks for mass pay-outs was reduced. They pretty much guaranteed that the number of people paying INTO the insurance plan would exceed the number of pay-outs. By making the premiums tax deductions to the employer - forcing them to share in the cost of the premium, it also made it easier to increase premiums since the end consumer - the individual - wasn't seeing the total cost of the insurance they were "buying".
By the 1950's, medical insurance coverage extended to approximately 75% of the American population.
Further lobbying efforts made it so tax deductions were extended to medical providers (doctors and hospitals) that no other business enjoyed. Case in point, medical providers can deduct from their taxes the portion of their accounts receivable that are never collected. Let me give an example to make this clear.
~ If I'm a plumber, I might bill my customer $1000 for a job. The customer comes to me and says, "I can't afford $1000. I'll pay $600 but that is all I can afford." If the plumber says, "Fine. $600 is better than nothing", the plumber can't 'write off" the $400 that was unpaid on their taxes. Instead they pay a tax for "profits" on the $600 (if there aren't other business expenses to offset this amount.)
~ If I'm a doctor, I might bill my customer $1000 for a job. The customer comes to me and says, "My insurance paid you $400, I'm paying you $200 and the insurance company says you have to 'write off' the balance." The doctor says, "Fine, I'll use the $400 as a tax deduction (thereby off-setting my 'profit' on the $600 collected), then turn around and complain that I never get to collect all the money I charge for medical procedures." This is true even if the medical procedure only really costs $300 to perform. This is how doctors manage to have 6-figure incomes while also complaining that they are constantly losing money. As a matter of fact, if they want to 'lose' even more money, all they need to do is increase the cost of their $300 procedure to $1200 and 'write off' even more money from their taxes. Ever wonder why the cost of medical care is skyrocketing?
So Obamacare did nothing to fix the tax policies that got us to this point. As soon as they invited insurance companies to the table - and ended up allowing them to write the majority of the legislation - they were doomed to make matters worse.
The real solution would be to say, "ALL insurance premiums are tax deductible on the private individuals insurance, not the employer. If you want a policy, go out on the free market and buy one. If you're not employed, you can get competitive insurance. If you are employed, you can get competitive insurance and keep it no matter where you work." In the meantime, they would tell medical providers that they can no longer take a tax deductions for uncollected bills - just like any other business. If you want to collect on your bills, start working with your customers to make those services affordable because they're going to start shopping for the most affordable provider.
Summary: Complicated and directed federal tax policies created the problem. The only way to solve the problem is to change the tax code.
Or, just enact the FairTax and all this goes away.
Let's take a fresh approach so we can address the real issues behind how we got to where we are today.
Back in the 1930's, employees generally didn't have health insurance. They paid for medical care out of pocket as situations came up. People who couldn't afford medical care didn't get good medical care. Those who could afford medical care, lived longer and healthier - they also could afford insurance but such policies were rare. If you were lucky, you worked for a company that employed a company doctor. This trend increased because employers saw that productivity improved if employees were healthy enough to actually show up. Some would say, why didn't they just hire someone else if an employee got sick. Well, the answer is because hiring is expensive, often businesses had access to a limited employee pool and it was better for business to keep experienced employees.
Eventually, in the 1940's innovation insurance companies (Blue Cross / Blue Shield) lobbied Congress to make health insurance premiums a tax deduction - FOR EMPLOYERS. You have to ask why? Well, it was much easier for insurance companies to market to employers. They were the ones who could capture a portion of the employee's wages before the paycheck was issued. And by marketing to an entity that had a pool of insured, instead of individuals, the risks for mass pay-outs was reduced. They pretty much guaranteed that the number of people paying INTO the insurance plan would exceed the number of pay-outs. By making the premiums tax deductions to the employer - forcing them to share in the cost of the premium, it also made it easier to increase premiums since the end consumer - the individual - wasn't seeing the total cost of the insurance they were "buying".
By the 1950's, medical insurance coverage extended to approximately 75% of the American population.
Further lobbying efforts made it so tax deductions were extended to medical providers (doctors and hospitals) that no other business enjoyed. Case in point, medical providers can deduct from their taxes the portion of their accounts receivable that are never collected. Let me give an example to make this clear.
~ If I'm a plumber, I might bill my customer $1000 for a job. The customer comes to me and says, "I can't afford $1000. I'll pay $600 but that is all I can afford." If the plumber says, "Fine. $600 is better than nothing", the plumber can't 'write off" the $400 that was unpaid on their taxes. Instead they pay a tax for "profits" on the $600 (if there aren't other business expenses to offset this amount.)
~ If I'm a doctor, I might bill my customer $1000 for a job. The customer comes to me and says, "My insurance paid you $400, I'm paying you $200 and the insurance company says you have to 'write off' the balance." The doctor says, "Fine, I'll use the $400 as a tax deduction (thereby off-setting my 'profit' on the $600 collected), then turn around and complain that I never get to collect all the money I charge for medical procedures." This is true even if the medical procedure only really costs $300 to perform. This is how doctors manage to have 6-figure incomes while also complaining that they are constantly losing money. As a matter of fact, if they want to 'lose' even more money, all they need to do is increase the cost of their $300 procedure to $1200 and 'write off' even more money from their taxes. Ever wonder why the cost of medical care is skyrocketing?
So Obamacare did nothing to fix the tax policies that got us to this point. As soon as they invited insurance companies to the table - and ended up allowing them to write the majority of the legislation - they were doomed to make matters worse.
The real solution would be to say, "ALL insurance premiums are tax deductible on the private individuals insurance, not the employer. If you want a policy, go out on the free market and buy one. If you're not employed, you can get competitive insurance. If you are employed, you can get competitive insurance and keep it no matter where you work." In the meantime, they would tell medical providers that they can no longer take a tax deductions for uncollected bills - just like any other business. If you want to collect on your bills, start working with your customers to make those services affordable because they're going to start shopping for the most affordable provider.
Summary: Complicated and directed federal tax policies created the problem. The only way to solve the problem is to change the tax code.
Or, just enact the FairTax and all this goes away.
AmazonTania
1 Percenter Wannabe
A few charts people should see.
Full-Time Jobs:
Part-Time Jobs:
Comparison:
Apparently, these days it takes three Part-Time employees to do the job of one Full-Time employee.
Full-Time Jobs:
Part-Time Jobs:
Comparison:
Apparently, these days it takes three Part-Time employees to do the job of one Full-Time employee.
Last edited:
martybegan
Diamond Member
- Apr 5, 2010
- 102,578
- 53,403
- 2,615
The government?
Umm, no. You have no clue how our system works now or in the past, do you? You just know "the government" is your go to answer for anything you don't understand.
What I know is what YOU really want, which is single payer, which is government controlled health care. What I am concerned about is not the past or present, but the future where you want another massive government agency to control yet another aspect of our lives.
And dont give me any bullshit about the government not "controlling" healthcare. They will control the purse strings, which is control of the product.
RDD_1210
Forms his own opinions
- May 13, 2010
- 18,981
- 1,817
- 265
I read through your whole post and not one hint of what you would like to see in a healthcare plan. Seems to be the recurring theme....you all know how to complain, but not how to be constructive.
Last edited:
RDD_1210
Forms his own opinions
- May 13, 2010
- 18,981
- 1,817
- 265
The government?
Umm, no. You have no clue how our system works now or in the past, do you? You just know "the government" is your go to answer for anything you don't understand.
What I know is what YOU really want, which is single payer, which is government controlled health care. What I am concerned about is not the past or present, but the future where you want another massive government agency to control yet another aspect of our lives.
And dont give me any bullshit about the government not "controlling" healthcare. They will control the purse strings, which is control of the product.
At least we agree that you have no clue at all how healthcare works in this country. Thanks for agreeing on that....it's a start.
As for what I want. I would be totally happy with a public option. Let people who want government healthcare have that as an option and those who want to spend more for a private plan are free to do so. That's what I want. What problem do you have with that?
Quick...Google this - "Public Option, what should I think as a Conservative"
Then come back and tell me 'your opinion'.
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