Teachers trading tips on how to secretly and quitely transition students despite laws/parents.

[Hang on Sloopy]

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It's not a man. It's a bot with a very limited vocabulary.

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it is a damned dirty bottom in my definition

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

So, this Jalisa Vine person. Did the teachers force her/him to transition?

i'd like to transition you in a mental ward ya damned dirty fAggot

 

[Magnus]

From what I recall of her message, she was influenced by social media. I believe she went through all of this prior to the teachers doing what they are doing now.

And, I personally wouldn't use the 'force' word. I would say teachers that aren't qualified, are making decisions around psychological interventions, such as social transitioning and hiding it from parents?

So, teachers played no part? Good to know. So, why bring up that sad person's story in this discussion?

But, let's move on. So, how are teachers "making decisions around psychological interventions"? If, as you admit, they are not forcing the kids, then how are they influencing them to change their genders?

Are they hypnotizing them? Bribing them or something else? What?

But, do you really think it is that easy to influence a teenager? Heck, you can't dictate to them how to dress, what music to hear, who to date, and yet... somehow, teachers are able to manipulate teenagers to undergo sex operations to change their genders?

Are you guys really that stupid? Just because some idiotic right-wing media goes on and on about these kinds of salacious stories to inflame you, you don't have to fall for that. Learn to think for yourself. Otherwise, how are you any better than the kids who are so-called "being manipulated"?

 

[TheGreatSatan]

Democrats across America are conspiring against Americans to groom thier kids into trannies. Not just teachers, ALL Democrats. In all walks, from religious Democrats to scout leaders. Democrats are grooming children and hiding it from parents.

Democrats say that a kid needs a parent and doctors to agree, but this is a lie. If a democrat deems your kid trans, and you deny giving your kid a sex change, democrats will take your kid and do it themselves.

 

[Robz]

So, teachers played no part? Good to know. So, why bring up that sad person's story in this discussion?

If you read the post where I brought her up, you will see why I brought her up. You can do it.

But, let's move on. So, how are teachers "making decisions around psychological interventions"?

below, I Provided details out of the nhs.
It's not just the nhs, but other countries too. For example, sweden says social transition "may" be appropriate for "some" kids, at the later end of the assessment period. that is definetly not what the teachers In this video are calling for.

Anyway, nhs below:


The new NHS guidance recognizes social transition as a form of psychosocial intervention and not a neutral act, as it may have significant effects on psychological functioning. The NHS strongly discourages social transition in children, and clarifies that social transition in adolescents should only be pursued in order to alleviate or prevent clinically-significant distress or significant impairment in social functioning, and following an explicit informed consent process.

 

[Curried Goats]

There are many errors and other problems with this review. They double counted numbers, claimed incorrect ages of those that had surgery and other problems. For a little about it, see the below that was published by the editor of the journal:

Letter to the Editor: Regret after Gender-affirmation... : Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery – Global Open

An abstract is unavailable.

journals.lww.com

Double counted:


Only 1 to 2 years measured, average regret time is 8 years. Jalissa, for example was 8 years:


etc

However, how about you just pick one of the studies you think is the best example and we can go through it.

There is a reason that every country and medical organization that has actually completed a systematic review, found major issues resulting in scaled back treatment options. Even WPATH conducted a systematic review, and found the evidence low quality with little certainty.

That was a letter to the editor not a critique from the editor and you can go ahead and pick any study you want none of them even approach anywhere near the 20% regret we for cancer treatment.

 

[Robz]

That was a letter to the editor not a critique from the editor

yes, it was written by doctors then published to the study by the editor of the journal.

and you can go ahead and pick any study you want

Any study I picked would have problems (some intentional some not) making them near meaningless in measuring of what you claim. The loss to followup rates alone (36%) of these studies is a big enough problem to cause questions for most adults. From pubmed:

<5% loss leads to little bias, while >20% poses serious threats to validity.

Here is another early influencer that started at age 15 over 7 years ago and was documtented by mtv who just realized the mistake she made... and now regrets. A case like this would not be included in any of the studies due to their Short term review and simple medical records search.

 

[Curried Goats]

yes, it was written by doctors then published to the study by the editor of the journal.

That's fine. No where do those doctors assert that trans surgery regret is high. I have no problem with criticism that gets us better data but none of the data supports your argument.

Any study I picked would have problems (some intentional some not) making them near meaningless in measuring of what you claim.

Would any of them come anywhere near suggesting regret was high? Higher than than the 20% for chemo? Why no outrage and calls to ban chemo for teen girls with breast cancer since regret is so high?

The loss to followup rates alone (36%) of these studies is a big enough problem to cause questions for most adults. From pubmed:

Here's another one that surveyed trans patients and found that among those who did detransition that it was largely due to social and family pressure.

Factors Leading to “Detransition” Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States: A Mixed-Methods Analysis

Here is another early influencer that started at age 15 over 7 years ago and was documtented by mtv who just realized the mistake she made... and now regrets. A case like this would not be included in any of the studies due to their Short term review and simple medical records search.

Your one off anecdote does not prove or even hint at a large population of regret. You can't even produce a study, flawed or otherwise that suggests so. Meanwhile you skip right over the 20% regret rate for chemo.

 

[scruffy]

Roughly 30 teachers and administrators from various states including Iowa, Michigan, Illinois, and Ohio met in an online chatroom hosted by the Midwest and Plains Equity Assistance Center (MAP), an organization that has received millions of dollars in federal funding.

Here’s some gems from this discussion:

1. Kimberly Martin, DEI coordinator for Royal Oaks Schools in Michigan, described her efforts to hide elements of social transition, such as changing a student’s name, from their parents.
“We’re working with our record-keeping system so that certain screens can’t be seen by the parents … if there’s a nickname in there we’re trying to hide,” Martin said.

2. Jennifer Haglund, counselor for Ames Community Schools in Iowa, condemned Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds for signing a law in March barring males from competing on female sports teams and bragged about her personal activism for LGBTQ causes.
“I know that I have my own right code of ethics, and that doesn’t always go along with the law,” Haglund said.

3. “The stakes are very high for trans youth,” Shea Martin, an Ohio-based teacher and contributor to far-Left blog Radical Teacher, said. “I think that requires working subversively and quietly sometimes to make sure that trans kids have what they need.”

Midwestern Teachers Trade Tips On ‘Subversively & Quietly’ Transitioning Kids | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

Listen to this language:
“Can’t be seen by parents”… “my code of ethics doesn’t go along with the law”… “subversively and quietly”…
Teachers are actively hiding their attempts to confuse children who cannot consent.

And the group is federally funded, so our government is by definition funding the harm of non-consenting children in secret from their parents.

Disgusting

Hiding screens?

I'll march right in there and yank the fucking hard disk right out of their server, and by the time the cops get there it'll be all over the internet.

Don't lie down for these asswipes. Play hardball

 

[scruffy]

It says where. One of the teachers is at my kids school, where I also work.

Oh yeah?

Are you doing anything about this?

 

[scruffy]

Is this democrat said exactly what I was saying.

If your kindergarten teacher decides your kid is a different gender and you deny that kid a sex change the state will come in and take your kid.

No, they won't.

Not at all.

 

[Robz]

Would any of them come anywhere near suggesting regret was high? Higher than than the 20% for chemo? Why no outrage and calls to ban chemo for teen girls with breast cancer since regret is so high?

Impossible to know. It is likely that those lost to follow-up had different outcomes than those that stayed with the study. So, it's possible (I agree, unlikely) that the actual regret could be as high as 37% - 2 years out. So, what we know is that the regret rate is somewhere between 1% and 37% only 2 years out from surgery. As the average time to regret is 8+ years, additional questions are raised.

The loss to follow-up in the cancer treatment regret studies is even lower than the studies we are discussing. that's with the fact that cancer can directly leads to death.

Here's another one that surveyed trans patients and found that among those who did detransition that it was largely due to social and family pressure.

Factors Leading to “Detransition” Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States: A Mixed-Methods Analysis

Yes, one of many other problems with this survey is that it excluded responses from anyone that no longer identified as transgender. In other words, to be included in the study, the respondent had to currently identify as transgender. Do you think someone that regrets their transition and / or detransitions would still identify as transgender?

From the study:

Because the USTS only surveyed currently TGD-identified people, our study does not offer insights into reasons for detransition in previously TGD-identified people who currently identify as cisgender.

Other issues: offered prizes for participation, anonymous survey recruited through transgender centers where there are obvious signs that individuals responding didn't even understand some of the questions. I am sure even you can see the potential bias involved here.

 

[Magnus]

If you read the post where I brought her up, you will see why I brought her up. You can do it.

I did read it. The other poster was talking about gays/trans being biologically determined. You may not believe that...fine, but by bringing up that sad person's story, all you did was murk up the thread. For every sad story you bring up, I could bring up Republicans (Bible-thumping, Conservative) who have gay/trans kids. Wanna play that game?

below, I Provided details out of the nhs.
It's not just the nhs, but other countries too. For example, sweden says social transition "may" be appropriate for "some" kids, at the later end of the assessment period. that is definetly not what the teachers In this video are calling for.

Anyway, nhs below:


The new NHS guidance recognizes social transition as a form of psychosocial intervention and not a neutral act, as it may have significant effects on psychological functioning. The NHS strongly discourages social transition in children, and clarifies that social transition in adolescents should only be pursued in order to alleviate or prevent clinically-significant distress or significant impairment in social functioning, and following an explicit informed consent process.

All of the above is fine. But, again, all the teachers were doing were being a supportive person in these kids' troubled life. Do you really think that teachers who most probably have kids of their own, would somehow push kids into transitioning against their will?

You must be a bigger dope than I take you for. But, if your side does believe that, then sue the school. That's the American way, isn't it? For every imagined grievance, we sue. Go for it.

 

[2aguy]

Roughly 30 teachers and administrators from various states including Iowa, Michigan, Illinois, and Ohio met in an online chatroom hosted by the Midwest and Plains Equity Assistance Center (MAP), an organization that has received millions of dollars in federal funding.

Here’s some gems from this discussion:

1. Kimberly Martin, DEI coordinator for Royal Oaks Schools in Michigan, described her efforts to hide elements of social transition, such as changing a student’s name, from their parents.
“We’re working with our record-keeping system so that certain screens can’t be seen by the parents … if there’s a nickname in there we’re trying to hide,” Martin said.

2. Jennifer Haglund, counselor for Ames Community Schools in Iowa, condemned Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds for signing a law in March barring males from competing on female sports teams and bragged about her personal activism for LGBTQ causes.
“I know that I have my own right code of ethics, and that doesn’t always go along with the law,” Haglund said.

3. “The stakes are very high for trans youth,” Shea Martin, an Ohio-based teacher and contributor to far-Left blog Radical Teacher, said. “I think that requires working subversively and quietly sometimes to make sure that trans kids have what they need.”

Midwestern Teachers Trade Tips On ‘Subversively & Quietly’ Transitioning Kids | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

Listen to this language:
“Can’t be seen by parents”… “my code of ethics doesn’t go along with the law”… “subversively and quietly”…
Teachers are actively hiding their attempts to confuse children who cannot consent.

And the group is federally funded, so our government is by definition funding the harm of non-consenting children in secret from their parents.

Disgusting

They should, of course, all be fired.....

 

[Curried Goats]

Impossible to know. It is likely that those lost to follow-up had different outcomes than those that stayed with the study. So, it's possible (I agree, unlikely) that the actual regret could be as high as 37% - 2 years out. So, what we know is that the regret rate is somewhere between 1% and 37% only 2 years out from surgery. As the average time to regret is 8+ years, additional questions are raised.

The loss to follow-up in the cancer treatment regret studies is even lower than the studies we are discussing. that's with the fact that cancer can directly leads to death.


Yes, one of many other problems with this survey is that it excluded responses from anyone that no longer identified as transgender. In other words, to be included in the study, the respondent had to currently identify as transgender. Do you think someone that regrets their transition and / or detransitions would still identify as transgender?

From the study:



Other issues: offered prizes for participation, anonymous survey recruited through transgender centers where there are obvious signs that individuals responding didn't even understand some of the questions. I am sure even you can see the potential bias involved here.

So to conclude, you have no idea what the actual regret rate of trans patients is and we know regret for chemo is around 20% and yet the GOP isn't out here demanding we stop teens from getting chemo are they? Why is that?

Also prizes to take part in a survey isn't the same thing as a prize for answering a certain way in survey. I'm not sure why their answers should be suspect just because they were incentivized to take part.

 

[2aguy]

So to conclude, you have no idea what the actual regret rate of trans patients is and we know regret for chemo is around 20% and yet the GOP isn't out here demanding we stop teens from getting chemo are they? Why is that?

Also prizes to take part in a survey isn't the same thing as a prize for answering a certain way in survey. I'm not sure why I their answers should be suspect just because they were incentivized to take part.

Chemo treats cancer.....cutting off breasts and penises is an optional surgery they can do when they reach adulthood....you dumb ass....

 

[Curried Goats]

Chemo treats cancer.....cutting off breasts and penises is an optional surgery they can do when they reach adulthood....you dumb ass....

Gender dysphoria can be deadly as well, dumb ass.

 

[2aguy]

Gender dysphoria can be deadly as well, dumb ass.

Amd you treat it with psychiatrists, not mutilation you dumb fuck....

 

[Curried Goats]

Amd you treat it with psychiatrists, not mutilation you dumb fuck....

How would you know? The American Psychiatric Association supports gender affirming care you dumb Bingo.

 

[2aguy]

How would you know? The American Psychiatric Association supports gender affirming care you dumb Bingo.

A leftist group.......