Taxes.. How much is TOO MUCH?

[NYcarbineer]

A flat tax makes too much sense... That's why are Government will never go for it...

Not to mention it actually would go along with the sprit of the constitution having all taxes levelled equally.

If I make 100 bucks a year I should pay $10 in taxes. If I make 100,000 a year I should pay 10,000 in taxes. If I make 1,000,000,000 a year I should pay 100,000,000 in taxes.

No tax breaks, no exceptions, no deductions. It is what it is...you earn $xxxxxxx.xx/year and you have to pay 10% of it in taxes no matter when, where, or how you earned it.

I pay roughly 10% now in federal income taxes. No dependents, no deductions or credits of any consequence. I know many many people who make just what I do, but have many deductions of various sorts, who pay far less than that.

Should they pay more?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[Yes... anyone paying NOTHING would indeed be paying higher.. BUT THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE... it is wrong for them to be getting off with a freebie....

Again... another lefty with selective equality behind their motivation... falling for the 'awwww poor baby' routine

No, my motivation for asking was political. What are the chances, POLITICALLY SPEAKING, that

a. any politicians of any consequence are going to run on a tax platform of raising taxes for middle and lower income Americans while lowering them for the most wealthy, which is what you agree the flat tax would do...and...

b. what are the chances any politician could win on that platform?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Cato institute people have been studing countries that have rolled out a flat tax. This link shows advantages for America.

Eliminate Tax Brackets and Complicated Forms with a Flat Tax | Daniel J. Mitchell | Cato Institute: Commentary

“Tax reform may seem like an impossible dream, but it can happen. Achieving a flat tax in America will not be easy. Everyone who benefits from the current system—politicians, accountants, bureaucrats, and lobbyists—will fight to keep the IRS. But if the American people get angry enough, anything is possible.”

How many people would pay higher taxes under the flat tax? Keeping in mind as was recently reported that 47% of Americans pay NO federal income tax.

How many people would pay lower taxes under the flat tax? and in what income brackets would they most likely be?

Well since we get all of our fed taxes back, we'd be paying several thousands of dollars in taxes that currently someone else is covering for us. I'm all for the flat tax. Why should my brother, who makes more money than me, foot my portion of the bill? Why shouldn't I pay xx of my income and he pay the same xx of his income. Isn't that fair?

I'm covering for people with dependents, people with kids in college, people with mortgages, and on and on. I pay as much as ANYONE at my wage level.

My point is how do you sell it politically, plain and simple. How do you get the masses who are paying little or no federal income tax right now to vote themselves a tax increase for the benefit of those who now pay the taxes.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Taxes isn't really the issue, the issue is the gov keeps spending and will try to justify higher taxes to pay for all teh debt they just added.

Had they been fiscally responsible from the start, people probaly would not object to a SMALL tax increase.

That boat has not only now sailed, its on the bottom of the ocean.

We haven't seen bottom yet.

Bottom will be when those who were promised to get entitlements stop getting them because government can't pay. That's going to hurt.

Since we know that point WILL be reached, we should end all entitlements (Including Socialist Security and MediScam) immediately. If a politician claims that would cost them re-election I would say they pledged to protect the US, not their personal job security.

 

[007]

[Yes... anyone paying NOTHING would indeed be paying higher.. BUT THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE... it is wrong for them to be getting off with a freebie....

Again... another lefty with selective equality behind their motivation... falling for the 'awwww poor baby' routine

No, my motivation for asking was political. What are the chances, POLITICALLY SPEAKING, that

a. any politicians of any consequence are going to run on a tax platform of raising taxes for middle and lower income Americans while lowering them for the most wealthy, which is what you agree the flat tax would do...and...

b. what are the chances any politician could win on that platform?

A flat tax could actually save our country from financial ruin. By the time the next Presidential elections hits, I guarantee you, the budget and the deficit will be topic number one. So the question at hand then will probably be, what politician would run AGAINST a flat tax?

 

[Foxfyre]

How many people would pay higher taxes under the flat tax? Keeping in mind as was recently reported that 47% of Americans pay NO federal income tax.

How many people would pay lower taxes under the flat tax? and in what income brackets would they most likely be?

Well since we get all of our fed taxes back, we'd be paying several thousands of dollars in taxes that currently someone else is covering for us. I'm all for the flat tax. Why should my brother, who makes more money than me, foot my portion of the bill? Why shouldn't I pay xx of my income and he pay the same xx of his income. Isn't that fair?

I'm covering for people with dependents, people with kids in college, people with mortgages, and on and on. I pay as much as ANYONE at my wage level.

My point is how do you sell it politically, plain and simple. How do you get the masses who are paying little or no federal income tax right now to vote themselves a tax increase for the benefit of those who now pay the taxes.

That is an excellent question and the answer is that the frog needs to jump out of the pot now before it is too late.

Right now we probably do have a majority of registered voters who are paying taxes and who might still be sufficiently unbrainwashed to be convinced. It is a dangerous thing when more than half the country does not share in the consequences of what government does re taxes or whatever, and has strong incentive to make sure that those who do continue to do so.

It probably is impractical to enforce a concept that only those who pay the taxes have a vote. It is quite practical, however, to sell and implement a policy that everybody pay at least some taxes.

 

[boedicca]

Here's the thing - even people who think they aren't paying taxes are. The taxes are embedded in everything they purchase, and they pay a huge opportunity cost resulting from lower economic growth.

A great many people have much less opportunity to better their lives because jobs are not created.

 

[Foxfyre]

Here's the thing - even people who think they aren't paying taxes are. The taxes are embedded in everything they purchase, and they pay a huge opportunity cost resulting from lower economic growth.

A great many people have much less opportunity to better their lives because jobs are not created.

This is true. But a lot of those who think they are freeloading on everybody else and like doing that probably won't be convinced of that or won't care.

My tag line from Ben Franklin supports the concept that we do the poor no favors by making them more comfortable in poverty while removing much incentive to become unpoor. The very minor 'pain' inflicted upon the lower income folks by putting them back on the tax rolls will almost certainly be offset by increased opportunity provided to them by the economic growth that will also occur when the upper wage earners are relieved of at least some of the total burden.

 

[boedicca]

I agree - as did Bill Clinton when he and the GOP Congress reformed Welfare.

 

[007]

A flat tax works. There's no disputing it. If there's a portion of America that wants to whine about all of a sudden having to pay their fair share, well boo fucking hoo. Do it and shut the fuck up.

CARPE DIEM: Success of the 13% Flat Tax in Russia

http://www.fairtaxblog.com/20050914/flattened-tax-success-stories-from-eastern-europe/

 

[DiamondDave]

This is true. But a lot of those who think they are freeloading on everybody else and like doing that probably won't be convinced of that or won't care.

Those who are not paying into the system have no stake in it.. those without stake generally have no problems abusing the system or voting to continue those abuses....

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

A flat tax makes too much sense... That's why are Government will never go for it...

Not to mention it actually would go along with the sprit of the constitution having all taxes levelled equally.

If I make 100 bucks a year I should pay $10 in taxes. If I make 100,000 a year I should pay 10,000 in taxes. If I make 1,000,000,000 a year I should pay 100,000,000 in taxes.

No tax breaks, no exceptions, no deductions. It is what it is...you earn $xxxxxxx.xx/year and you have to pay 10% of it in taxes no matter when, where, or how you earned it.

I pay roughly 10% now in federal income taxes. No dependents, no deductions or credits of any consequence. I know many many people who make just what I do, but have many deductions of various sorts, who pay far less than that.

Should they pay more?

Yes. We should all be responsible for the Same percentage regardless of our total income levels or personal circumstances.

The concept really isn't that hard to understand.

 

[Foxfyre]

This is true. But a lot of those who think they are freeloading on everybody else and like doing that probably won't be convinced of that or won't care.

Those who are not paying into the system have no stake in it.. those without stake generally have no problems abusing the system or voting to continue those abuses....

Right. And that's the problem.

It isn't just taxes too. Whenver we give government authority to provide reward or benefits to any select group, we are inviting massive corruption in both government and those receiving the benefit.

When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on the support of Paul.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not to mention it actually would go along with the sprit of the constitution having all taxes levelled equally.

If I make 100 bucks a year I should pay $10 in taxes. If I make 100,000 a year I should pay 10,000 in taxes. If I make 1,000,000,000 a year I should pay 100,000,000 in taxes.

No tax breaks, no exceptions, no deductions. It is what it is...you earn $xxxxxxx.xx/year and you have to pay 10% of it in taxes no matter when, where, or how you earned it.

I pay roughly 10% now in federal income taxes. No dependents, no deductions or credits of any consequence. I know many many people who make just what I do, but have many deductions of various sorts, who pay far less than that.

Should they pay more?

Yes. We should all be responsible for the Same percentage regardless of our total income levels or personal circumstances.

The concept really isn't that hard to understand.

I am absolutely a flat tax adovcate and am vigorously supporting candidates who support that concept if they are otherwise good candidates too.

But in the interest of promoting the general welfare, I am not convinced that there should be no deductions allowed.

For instance, we know that home ownership promotes a more prosperous environment along with stabile environments, lowered crime rates, increased security for the homeowner, and aesthetically an improved quality of life for many. I don't have any problem with mortgage insurance, taxes, etc. continuing as deductions to make it more possible for more folks to own their own home because we all benefit from that.

We should all want the federal government out of the charity business altogether, so I can see providing deductions for charitable contributions as they currently exists to encourage and enable people to look after the less fortunate among us as we all benefit from that.

We should encourage people to save some of their income, to purchase health insurance, plan for their retirement, etc. and allowing tax free medical savings accounts and retirement funds simply makes good sense for the benefit of all.

Such deductions should be across the board and applied without prejudice to all citizens as they ultimately benefit all.

 

[Thinman]

The Cato institute people have been studing countries that have rolled out a flat tax. This link shows advantages for America.

Eliminate Tax Brackets and Complicated Forms with a Flat Tax | Daniel J. Mitchell | Cato Institute: Commentary

“Tax reform may seem like an impossible dream, but it can happen. Achieving a flat tax in America will not be easy. Everyone who benefits from the current system—politicians, accountants, bureaucrats, and lobbyists—will fight to keep the IRS. But if the American people get angry enough, anything is possible.”

How many people would pay higher taxes under the flat tax? Keeping in mind as was recently reported that 47% of Americans pay NO federal income tax.

How many people would pay lower taxes under the flat tax? and in what income brackets would they most likely be?

Everyone needs some skin in the game.

 

[Charles Stucker]

A flat tax works. There's no disputing it. If there's a portion of America that wants to whine about all of a sudden having to pay their fair share, well boo fucking hoo. Do it and shut the fuck up.

CARPE DIEM: Success of the 13% Flat Tax in Russia

http://www.fairtaxblog.com/20050914/flattened-tax-success-stories-from-eastern-europe/

All income taxes suffer from the difficulty of defining INCOME for anyone who runs their own business. Unless everyone works for a company and receives their income for work in the form of a paycheck, those who have the ability to hide their income will frequently do just that. This is doubly true of the richest businesspeople as they did not grow so rich by playing fair.

 

[Thinman]

This is doubly true of the richest businesspeople as they did not grow so rich by playing fair.

All those deductions and loopholes go away with a flat tax. 1099 forms will still be needed so dividends and other income can be taxed as ordinary income.

You will still have your gardener or handyman able to hid his income but this kind of stuff has always been possible.

 

[007]

A flat tax works. There's no disputing it. If there's a portion of America that wants to whine about all of a sudden having to pay their fair share, well boo fucking hoo. Do it and shut the fuck up.

CARPE DIEM: Success of the 13% Flat Tax in Russia

http://www.fairtaxblog.com/20050914/flattened-tax-success-stories-from-eastern-europe/

All income taxes suffer from the difficulty of defining INCOME for anyone who runs their own business. Unless everyone works for a company and receives their income for work in the form of a paycheck, those who have the ability to hide their income will frequently do just that. This is doubly true of the richest businesspeople as they did not grow so rich by playing fair.

Then why is the flat tax so successful where it's already been implemented?

There is no more corrupt tax code on earth than what we have already.

 

[boedicca]

Then why is the flat tax so successful where it's already been implemented?

There is no more corrupt tax code on earth than what we have already.

Indeed. Some members here complain about The Rich and Corporations not paying their fair share in one post - and then complain in another how The Rich and Corporations own the government.

Two very easily connected dots. Complexity is the result of favors being bought and sold - simplicity is a disinfectant.

 

[DiamondDave]

This is doubly true of the richest businesspeople as they did not grow so rich by playing fair.

All those deductions and loopholes go away with a flat tax. 1099 forms will still be needed so dividends and other income can be taxed as ordinary income.

You will still have your gardener or handyman able to hid his income but this kind of stuff has always been possible.

It's also why with such a system you are taxing the income or the earning itself... and not the individual.... the individual in a complex system will try to add or use 'holes' that pertain to them... with a solid and simple system that taxes each dollar of reported/reportable earned income the exact same way, no exceptions, without thought as to whom, what income level, what personal situation, etc... it helps to eliminate that game