Zone1 Tax the Rich! Make them Pay their Fair Share!

[Lisa558]

Overall Tax Burden: The poorest fifth of Americans pay an average of 17% of their income in total taxes.

Who Pays Taxes in America in 2024​

Who Pays Taxes in America in 2024

America's tax system is just barely progressive, and not nearly as progressive as many suggest or as progressive as it could be. There is plenty of room for lawmakers to improve the progressivity of the tax code to combat economic, wealth, and racial inequality.

itep.org

For the first time in roughly 100 years, U.S. billionaires paid a lower effective tax rate than the working class in 2018, largely driven by the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. The wealthiest 400 families paid an average effective rate of ~23%, less than the ~24% average for the bottom half of households.



Trump’s tax cuts helped billionaires pay less than the working class for first time.

Again….we are talking about federal income taxes. They pay zero.

 

[JonKoch]

But most of the money resides in the middle and lower classes.

The upper middle class is now the largest income group in the U.S., study finds

America's middle class is shrinking, but not because people are getting poorer. Instead, more households are climbing the ladder, new research suggests.

www.cbsnews.com

MIDDLE AND LOWER? ARE YOU FKN NUTS?

• 
  
• Data Perspective: While the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) data shows this trend, this analysis points to a "K-shaped" economy where higher-income earners gain, while lower-income households may still face challenges.

Key Findings and Context

• • The Shift: The shrinking middle class is not shrinking due to widespread poverty, but because more households are moving up the income ladder.
  • 
    
  • Definition: AEI defines the upper-middle class as households earning roughly $153,864 TO $461,592

• Drivers: Key factors include rising dual-income families, higher educational attainment (especially among women), and long-term income gains.

Comparison: In 1979, only 10% of households fit this upper-middle-class bracket.



LOWER AND MIDDLE?

 

[JonKoch]

Again….we are talking about federal income taxes. They pay zero.

False

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Check again.

Whether the poor pay more taxes than the rich depends heavily on how you define "taxes" (federal vs. state/local) and whether you are looking at the total amount paid or the percentage of income (tax rate).
Reddit +1
In the United States, the tax system is a mix of progressive (higher rates for higher income) and regressive (higher rates for lower income) elements.

The Short Answer

• By Percentage of Income (Effective Tax Rate): The poor often pay a higher share of their income in total taxes (federal, state, and local combined) than the rich, particularly when considering state and local taxes.
• By Total Dollar Amount: The rich pay a much larger amount of money in taxes than the poor.
  Reddit +3

---

Detailed Breakdown

1. Federal Taxes (Generally Progressive)
The federal tax system is designed to be progressive, meaning higher earners pay a higher percentage of their income.
Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy +1

• Income Tax: The top 1% of earners pay a significant portion of federal income taxes (roughly 40%). Low-income households often pay no federal income tax and may receive refundable tax credits (like the Earned Income Tax Credit) that make their average federal income tax rate negative.
• Payroll Taxes (Regressive): Payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare) are capped, meaning they take a larger percentage of income from the poor than from the wealthy.
  Center for American Progress +4

2. State and Local Taxes (Highly Regressive)
State and local tax systems are "upside-down," meaning they require a much greater share of income from low-income families than from wealthy families.
Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy

• Sales/Excise Taxes: Low-income families spend all or most of their income on basic needs, which are often subject to sales taxes. High-income families save and invest more, avoiding these taxes.
• Impact: In 41 states, high-income families are taxed at lower rates than everyone else. In states like Florida and Washington, the poorest 20% pay up to 5-6 times more of their income in taxes than the top 1%.
  Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy +2

3. Why the "Rich" Can Pay Lower Rates
Wealthy individuals often have their income derived from assets (capital gains) rather than labor (wages).
Center for American Progress

• Capital Gains: Long-term capital gains and dividends are taxed at lower rates than ordinary income.
• Tax Avoidance: The wealthy can use loopholes, deductions (like mortgage interest), and legal strategies to lower their taxable income.
• Unrealized Gains: Stock and asset appreciation that is not sold is not taxed at all.

Right now the poor pay at a much higher rate since most taxes, like gas tax, are not progressive.

Where do the "poor pay at a much higher rate"?

Be specific.

 

[Lisa558]

False

True

 

[JonKoch]

The loan was paid back with the agreed upon interest. It is no different than the FHA guaranteeing a loan for you.

This is a stretch in any case. There is a reason for income differences--education, skills, experience, risk to life, health and investments. The study you quote is just a rehash of 'income equality' which is invalid. People performing the same work have virtually the same pay in this country. It is ludicrous to suggest that a burger flipper be paid on the same scale as a more productive and valuable vocation. The rest of your 'cut and paste' is just whining about your disagreement with current tax law which brings me back to my original point of doing away with taxes for 'use fees.' You use it, you pay for it as you go--can't pay? So sorry for you. Work harder, make yourself more valuable and earn what you want. The more wealthy among us are not bound to support you.

Yet I remember the right screaming about solyndra?


Weird, from 1945-1980 the top 1% received 8%-10% of ALL income in the US, but 26% by 2024, they work harder? More educated?

AND the bottom 50% went from getting 18% to only 10.4%, they get lazier?

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2024 Update

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) made many significant, but temporary, changes to the individual income tax code to lower tax rates, widen brackets, increase the standard deduction and child tax credit, and more.

taxfoundation.org

 

[JonKoch]

True

In 2024 (based on 2022-2023 data trends), the bottom 50% of US income earners paid approximately 3% of the total federal individual income taxes collected. While this group accounts for roughly half of all tax returns, their low share is due to lower average incomes

ON 10.4% OF THE PIE

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The poor pay gas taxes, sales taxes, and cigarette and liquor taxes.

Why do (mostly) state and local governments hate poor people?

 

[sparky]

Yeah, we had no rich people in the US from, 1945-1980, I forgot

yeah, you forgot what made America great Jon why immigrants sold their souls to get to the 'streets of gold' , why my grandparents literally stuck their children in the lower decks of ships headed here , forever thinking they'd have it better , not knowing if they'd ever meet again .......some were met via Uncle Sam, who sent them back to defend our capitalist construct.......and they're the ONLY reason i got it good today

And here you are, pushing socialism , a disease so many countries have fallen for

~S~

 

[JonKoch]

Right now the poor pay at a much higher rate since most taxes, like gas tax, are not progressive.

Where do the "poor pay at a much higher rate"?

Be specific.

The poor pay a much higher effective rate of their income in taxes in 41 to 45 U.S. states, largely driven by state and local tax structures that are regressive, meaning they burden low-income households more than the rich. This "poverty penalty" means the lowest 20% of earners often pay a higher share of their income to state and local taxes (about 11.3%) compared to the top 1% (about 7.2%).

5 Little-Known Facts About Taxes and Inequality in America

Rich Americans face the lowest payroll tax rates and benefit from skewed income tax deductions, loopholes, and rate preferences.

www.americanprogress.org

 

[sparky]

Why do (mostly) state and local governments hate poor people?

I am the poorest sob here Todd

And i THINK i got it good

~S~

 

[Concerned American]

Data Perspective: While the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) data shows this trend, this analysis points to a "K-shaped" economy where higher-income earners gain, while lower-income households may still face challenges.

As long as there are people who do not have the ambition to improve their lot, there will be households that face challenges. All people face challenges. That fact doesn't mean others are required to pay the way for those who encounter them. We have been afforded the right to LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Nowhere does it say we are required to provide any of that for those not willing or able to obtain them for themselves.

 

[JonKoch]

yeah, you forgot what made America great Jon why immigrants sold their souls to get to the 'streets of gold' , why my grandparents literally stuck their children in the lower decks of ships headed here , forever thinking they'd have it better , not knowing if they'd ever meet again .......some were met via Uncle Sam, who sent them back to defend our capitalist construct.......and they're the ONLY reason i got it good today

And here you are, pushing socialism , a disease so many countries have fallen for

~S~

So you CAN NOT EXPLAIN HOW OR WHY THE RICHEST 1% WENT FROM 8%-10% OF THE PIE FROM 1945-1980 BUT 26% BY 2024. Got it

 

[JonKoch]

As long as there are people who do not have the ambition to improve their lot, there will be households that face challenges. All people face challenges. That fact doesn't mean others are required to pay the way for those who encounter them. We have been afforded the right to LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Nowhere does it say we are required to provide any of that for those not willing or able to obtain them for themselves.

So you CAN NOT EXPLAIN HOW OR WHY THE RICHEST 1% WENT FROM 8%-10% OF THE PIE FROM 1945-1980 BUT 26% BY 2024. Got it

 

[JonKoch]

Why do (mostly) state and local governments hate poor people?

Mostly red states

 

[JonKoch]

Which TAXES can you raise on the rich to get $2T.

Income? Nope they don't work paychecks.
Capital Gains? Have at it. But it hurts little man too. The rich don't need to buy or sell.
Death Tax?
Inheritance?yawning it's already 50%

I Propose a National property tax on >$9million dollar homes at 10% or 5%. Will that make Stain happy?

Sure we could tax income, however it's received like we used to before Ronnie


In 1982, the Reagan administration significantly impacted stock markets by relaxing regulations on corporate stock buybacks, essentially legalizing them through SEC Rule 10b-18. This allowed companies to repurchase their own shares to return profits to investors rather than reinvesting in wages or equipment, shifting corporate strategy toward increasing shareholder value

• "Profits Without Prosperity": This shift is criticized, as explained in Profits Without Prosperity - Harvard Business Review, for prioritizing high stock prices and executive bonuses over worker income.

• Ideology: These policies aimed at reducing regulatory barriers and increasing incentives for investment as part of "Reaganomics".

These changes moved the SEC from a strict regulator of the stock market to more of a market promoter, setting the stage for modern corporate financial practices.

 

[Concerned American]

Yet I remember the right screaming about solyndra?

Solyndra was gifted money that was never paid back and because of their mismanagement, they went broke at a cost to taxpayers. Solyndra was nothing but political payoff to Obama's supporters.

Weird, from 1945-1980 the top 1% received 8%-10% of ALL income in the US, but 26% by 2024, they work harder? More educated?

They earned it. LOL, your buddy Bill Gates is one of the richest on earth. He and Paul Allen made a better mousetrap. They didn't do anything that you couldn't have done if you had applied yourself. You and the democrats can't seem to grasp that the world doesn't OWE you anything. Earn it. BTW, spare us the anonymous cut and paste. If you can cut an paste it, you can provide the source so we can see it ourselves.

 

[Lisa558]

In 2024 (based on 2022-2023 data trends), the bottom 50% of US income earners paid approximately 3% of the total federal individual income taxes collected. While this group accounts for roughly half of all tax returns, their low share is due to lower average incomes

ON 10.4% OF THE PIE

So they didn’t pay their fair share. They should account for 10.4% of the federal income taxes paid.

 

[JonKoch]

True. And, to tax the hell out of the rich requires rewriting most of the tax code.

09/28/2015​

​

Trump: My tax plan is 'going to cost me a fortune'​

“It’s going to cost me a fortune, which is actually true,” the Republican presidential front-runner candidate told reporters, as he unveiled a bold — and fairly detailed — tax plan, under which half of Americans would pay no federal income tax and the rich would face closed loopholes and slashed deductions.

The audacious statement, like many of Trump’s proclamations, was hard to fact check. While it’s true that the plan would knock out cherished tax breaks, such as the carried interest provision dear to some Wall Street money managers, he didn’t specify many of the other deductions that the super rich would no longer enjoy under a Trump presidency. And many of the lost tax breaks will be offset by a pretty sizeable overall rate reduction.



WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT? Instead he gave PERMANANT tax breaks to the richest and 4 years to everyone else (2025)

 

[Concerned American]

So you CAN NOT EXPLAIN HOW OR WHY THE RICHEST 1% WENT FROM 8%-10% OF THE PIE FROM 1945-1980 BUT 26% BY 2024. Got it

Link. As for your unsupported statement, those percentages (if they're true) do nothing more than reflect the market. Again, your jealousy of those more successful than you does nothing to negate the fact that they earned it legally within the laws of the system.