Take the income tax quiz!!!

[SpidermanTuba]

No...I just want them to get themselves back on their feet...and I will help them.

You completely fail to understand that there will always be people at the bottom of the economic ladder, this is how our economic system is structured. We will always need to have ditches dug and burgers flipped - and we'll be paying someone not very much to do it.

why do you think that I completely fail to understand this?

I was one of those people.

Poor as dirt.

No money, no roof, no bank account.

I bagged groceries at a Brooklyn Grocery Store at the age of 23.

I know poor...

And someone replaced me at bagging...as I built a company.

So why do you th8ink I am clueless?

How many kids did you have at age 23?

 

[Oldandtired]

You completely fail to understand that there will always be people at the bottom of the economic ladder, this is how our economic system is structured. We will always need to have ditches dug and burgers flipped - and we'll be paying someone not very much to do it.

why do you think that I completely fail to understand this?

I was one of those people.

Poor as dirt.

No money, no roof, no bank account.

I bagged groceries at a Brooklyn Grocery Store at the age of 23.

I know poor...

And someone replaced me at bagging...as I built a company.

So why do you th8ink I am clueless?

How many kids did you have at age 23?

That I knew of?

C'mon tuba...back off. I understand the plight of the poor and I understand the role of the poor...and I understand the needs of the poor.

I do not agree with the poor being coddled. I believe they should swallow their pride and accept charity...as that is what they deserve...nothingmore than charity.

It will motivate them better than any "entitlement" offered to them.

Call my tax dollars to them as charity, and they will accept it anyway.....and maybe...just maybe...they will get rid of that chip on their shoulder and start to climb out of it....and in the meantime, they will be replaced by the next generation of hard luckers.....and they too will rise out of it.

Instead, we have the governm,ent saying..."there there, everything is going to be allright. Here...let mother government help you for as long as you like"....

 

[beowolfe]

For the poll question above:


Consider a hypothetical tax system where they are two brackets.

up to and including $100,000 = 15%
above $100,000 = 30%

Consider two taxpayers. Taxpayer A made $100,000 and taxpayer B made $100,001. How much more in taxes did B pay than A?

How much either pays depends on what deductions they have, if any.

 

[Oldandtired]

and tuba...

Do not attempt to tell me I do not know what I am talking about.

I am an example of what I am talking about.

Hell...I refused unemployment....I was not looking to make it easy for myself. I was a dick and I deserved what i got....and it was my acceptance that it was my proiblem to deal with that got me out of it.

I Learned more during those days living under the boardwalk than I did in 4 years of college.

The direction of our country as it pertains to the poor is going to nothing more than enslave them as poor.

 

[Immanuel]

What people like you consistently fail to realize is that the people at the bottom of the income ladder still need to eat. I know you'd prefer they simply not need food and housing and clothing because they can't afford it - but they still need it.

Nice of you to put words in my mouth.

What you don't realize is that the Fair Tax gives them much more disposable income than the current system we have now and will, in fact, mean they would pay less in taxes than they do now. That is what the monthly credit provides them.

I would not support it, if I had not read it and did not fully believe that it would provide more for the poor.

Immie

It does not benefit the poor. The prebate is structured so those right at the poverty line pay no taxes.

Take a family of 4 living on the poverty line - that's $20,500. under the fair tax - their tax burden is 0%.

Under the present system they pay only FICA tax - which amounts to $1568 - but they get $4493 under the EIC. So they net $2925 and bring home $23425.







#

Economist William G. Gale at the Brookings Institute has determined that most low income families will pay more taxes. "Under the Americans for Fair Taxation proposal, taxes would rise for households in the bottom 90 percent of the income distribution, while households in the top 1 percent would receive an average tax cut of over $75,000."

First off, under the Fair Tax plan they no longer pay FICA taxes which are no longer deducted from their paychecks at all so right there they net 1568 in FICA/Medicare tax savings plus they get the credit of more than $400/month which ends up to be roughly $5000/year and allows them to budget their expenses.

True people making minimum wage are having very little if any FWT taken from their checks. The Fair Tax "Credit" coincides with the EIC... by the way, you do realize that many who are entitled to the EIC don't even know what it is and don't collect it right? However, under the Fair Tax, it is not only income taxes that are eliminated. It is all federal taxes, i.e. the gas tax, excise tax on cigarettes, FICA taxes, Medicare Taxes, etc. etc. etc... taxes that the poor do in fact pay every day.

Immie

 

[Oldandtired]

For the poll question above:


Consider a hypothetical tax system where they are two brackets.

up to and including $100,000 = 15%
above $100,000 = 30%

Consider two taxpayers. Taxpayer A made $100,000 and taxpayer B made $100,001. How much more in taxes did B pay than A?

How much either pays depends on what deductions they have, if any.

Jeez....all of you are clueless.....
It truly is scary....READ THE QUESTION!

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Nice of you to put words in my mouth.

What you don't realize is that the Fair Tax gives them much more disposable income than the current system we have now and will, in fact, mean they would pay less in taxes than they do now. That is what the monthly credit provides them.

I would not support it, if I had not read it and did not fully believe that it would provide more for the poor.

Immie

It does not benefit the poor. The prebate is structured so those right at the poverty line pay no taxes.

Take a family of 4 living on the poverty line - that's $20,500. under the fair tax - their tax burden is 0%.

Under the present system they pay only FICA tax - which amounts to $1568 - but they get $4493 under the EIC. So they net $2925 and bring home $23425.







#

Economist William G. Gale at the Brookings Institute has determined that most low income families will pay more taxes. "Under the Americans for Fair Taxation proposal, taxes would rise for households in the bottom 90 percent of the income distribution, while households in the top 1 percent would receive an average tax cut of over $75,000."

First off, under the Fair Tax plan they no longer pay FICA taxes which are no longer deducted from their paychecks at all so right there they net 1568 in FICA/Medicare tax savings plus they get the credit of more than $400/month which ends up to be roughly $5000/year and allows them to budget their expenses.

True people making minimum wage are having very little if any FWT taken from their checks. The Fair Tax "Credit" coincides with the EIC... by the way, you do realize that many who are entitled to the EIC don't even know what it is and don't collect it right? However, under the Fair Tax, it is not only income taxes that are eliminated. It is all federal taxes, i.e. the gas tax, excise tax on cigarettes, FICA taxes, Medicare Taxes, etc. etc. etc... taxes that the poor do in fact pay every day.

Immie

Yes but after they get their $400 a month they wind up paying it back in sales taxes (if they are making 20.5k and family of 4 and assuming all 20.5k is spent). They net 0. Under the current tax system they actually have "negative" income tax and get extra from the government. The fair tax undeniably reduce the amount of money per year that a family on the poverty line will have available to purchase goods and services.

 

[beowolfe]

Nice of you to put words in my mouth.

What you don't realize is that the Fair Tax gives them much more disposable income than the current system we have now and will, in fact, mean they would pay less in taxes than they do now. That is what the monthly credit provides them.

I would not support it, if I had not read it and did not fully believe that it would provide more for the poor.

Immie

It does not benefit the poor. The prebate is structured so those right at the poverty line pay no taxes.

Take a family of 4 living on the poverty line - that's $20,500. under the fair tax - their tax burden is 0%.

Under the present system they pay only FICA tax - which amounts to $1568 - but they get $4493 under the EIC. So they net $2925 and bring home $23425.







#

Economist William G. Gale at the Brookings Institute has determined that most low income families will pay more taxes. "Under the Americans for Fair Taxation proposal, taxes would rise for households in the bottom 90 percent of the income distribution, while households in the top 1 percent would receive an average tax cut of over $75,000."

First off, under the Fair Tax plan they no longer pay FICA taxes which are no longer deducted from their paychecks at all so right there they net 1568 in FICA/Medicare tax savings plus they get the credit of more than $400/month which ends up to be roughly $5000/year and allows them to budget their expenses.

True people making minimum wage are having very little if any FWT taken from their checks. The Fair Tax "Credit" coincides with the EIC... by the way, you do realize that many who are entitled to the EIC don't even know what it is and don't collect it right? However, under the Fair Tax, it is not only income taxes that are eliminated. It is all federal taxes, i.e. the gas tax, excise tax on cigarettes, FICA taxes, Medicare Taxes, etc. etc. etc... taxes that the poor do in fact pay every day.

Immie

No FICA?? What happens to medicare and SS under your fair tax scheme?

 

[Immanuel]

It does not benefit the poor. The prebate is structured so those right at the poverty line pay no taxes.

Take a family of 4 living on the poverty line - that's $20,500. under the fair tax - their tax burden is 0%.

Under the present system they pay only FICA tax - which amounts to $1568 - but they get $4493 under the EIC. So they net $2925 and bring home $23425.







#

First off, under the Fair Tax plan they no longer pay FICA taxes which are no longer deducted from their paychecks at all so right there they net 1568 in FICA/Medicare tax savings plus they get the credit of more than $400/month which ends up to be roughly $5000/year and allows them to budget their expenses.

True people making minimum wage are having very little if any FWT taken from their checks. The Fair Tax "Credit" coincides with the EIC... by the way, you do realize that many who are entitled to the EIC don't even know what it is and don't collect it right? However, under the Fair Tax, it is not only income taxes that are eliminated. It is all federal taxes, i.e. the gas tax, excise tax on cigarettes, FICA taxes, Medicare Taxes, etc. etc. etc... taxes that the poor do in fact pay every day.

Immie

Yes but after they get their $400 a month they wind up paying it back in sales taxes (if they are making 20.5k and family of 4 and assuming all 20.5k is spent). They net 0. Under the current tax system they actually have "negative" income tax and get extra from the government. The fair tax undeniably reduce the amount of money per year that a family on the poverty line will have available to purchase goods and services.

No, it does not undeniably reduce the amount of money per year that a family on the poverty line will have available to purchase goods and services.

Plain and simple... the estimated tax rate under the Fair Tax is 23% last I read. At a 400/month credit that is approximately 1740 of taxable goods purchased during the month to use up the credit. Seeing as how at $20,500/year that is a monthly income of $1,708 it is a little difficult to understand how you come up with your figure.

Here is some "rhetoric" to counter the Gale rhetoric.

Americans For Fair Taxation:

"The FairTax is regressive and shifts the tax burden onto lower and middle income people"

The truth: The FairTax actually eliminates and reimburses all federal taxes for those below the poverty line. This is accomplished through the universal prebate and by eliminating the highly regressive FICA payroll tax. Today, low and moderate income Americans pay far more in FICA taxes than income taxes. Those spending at twice the poverty level pay a FairTax of only 11.5 percent -- a rate much lower than the income and payroll tax burden they bear today. Meanwhile, the wealthy pay the 23 percent retail sales tax on their retail purchases.

How can the FairTax generate lower net tax rates for everyone and still pay for the same real government expenditures? The answer is two-fold. Firstly, the tax base is dramatically widened by including consumer spending from the underground economy (estimated at $1.5 trillion annually), and by including illegal immigrants, those who escape their fair share today through loopholes and gimmicks. In addition, 40 million foreign tourists a year will become American taxpayers as consumers here. Secondly, not everyone's average net tax burden falls. For households whose major economic resource is accumulated wealth, the FairTax will deliver a net tax hike compared to the current system.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

It does not benefit the poor. The prebate is structured so those right at the poverty line pay no taxes.

Take a family of 4 living on the poverty line - that's $20,500. under the fair tax - their tax burden is 0%.

Under the present system they pay only FICA tax - which amounts to $1568 - but they get $4493 under the EIC. So they net $2925 and bring home $23425.







#

First off, under the Fair Tax plan they no longer pay FICA taxes which are no longer deducted from their paychecks at all so right there they net 1568 in FICA/Medicare tax savings plus they get the credit of more than $400/month which ends up to be roughly $5000/year and allows them to budget their expenses.

True people making minimum wage are having very little if any FWT taken from their checks. The Fair Tax "Credit" coincides with the EIC... by the way, you do realize that many who are entitled to the EIC don't even know what it is and don't collect it right? However, under the Fair Tax, it is not only income taxes that are eliminated. It is all federal taxes, i.e. the gas tax, excise tax on cigarettes, FICA taxes, Medicare Taxes, etc. etc. etc... taxes that the poor do in fact pay every day.

Immie

No FICA?? What happens to medicare and SS under your fair tax scheme?

No FICA tax withholdings. Social Security and medicare are funded by the Fair Tax.

Immie

 

[xotoxi]

why do you think that I completely fail to understand this?

I was one of those people.

Poor as dirt.

No money, no roof, no bank account.

I bagged groceries at a Brooklyn Grocery Store at the age of 23.

I know poor...

And someone replaced me at bagging...as I built a company.

So why do you th8ink I am clueless?

Nice job.

You are clearly hard-working.

However, I assume that in addition to being hard-working, you are also intelligent, which allowed you the ability to plan, problem solve, and learn how a business is run, so that you could build a company.

If you aren't intelligent, then you were lucky.

There are a lot of very poor people who are hard-working, yet they are neither intelligent nor lucky. And those dumb, unlucky hard-working people probably will not advance out of a minimum wage, menial job, no matter how hard they work.

Is that their fault?

Being hard-working is the only quality that a person has full control over.

Intelligence, although it can be enhanced through education, is an inherent quality. You can't take someone who is not smart and magically make them smart, even if they worked really hard in classes. Some people just cannot learn things.

And luck...no one has control of that.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Plain and simple... the estimated tax rate under the Fair Tax is 23% last I read. At a 400/month credit that is approximately 1740 of taxable goods purchased during the month to use up the credit. Seeing as how at $20,500/year that is a monthly income of $1,708 it is a little difficult to understand how you come up with your figure.

I swear its like talking to a wall.

HELLO DO I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION?


Family of 4 at poverty line PRESENT TAX SITUATION

INCOME - $20,500
FICA TAX = 0.0765*20,500=$1568
EIC CREDIT = $4819


TOTAL TAX PAID=$1568-$4819 = -$3248



Family of 4 at poverty line "FAIR TAX" SITUATION

INCOME - $20,500
TOTAL ANNUAL PREBATE=$400*12=$4800
TOTAL ANNUAL SALES TAX (ALL MONEY SPENT) = 0.23*$20,500=$4715


TOTAL TAX PAID=$4715-$4800 = -$85


-$85 IS LARGER THAN $-3248 - THEY PAY MORE TAXES UNDER FAIR TAX

 

[Oldandtired]

why do you think that I completely fail to understand this?

I was one of those people.

Poor as dirt.

No money, no roof, no bank account.

I bagged groceries at a Brooklyn Grocery Store at the age of 23.

I know poor...

And someone replaced me at bagging...as I built a company.

So why do you th8ink I am clueless?

Nice job.

You are clearly hard-working.

However, I assume that in addition to being hard-working, you are also intelligent, which allowed you the ability to plan, problem solve, and learn how a business is run, so that you could build a company.

If you aren't intelligent, then you were lucky.

There are a lot of very poor people who are hard-working, yet they are neither intelligent nor lucky. And those dumb, unlucky hard-working people probably will not advance out of a minimum wage, menial job, no matter how hard they work.

Is that their fault?

Being hard-working is the only quality that a person has full control over.

Intelligence, although it can be enhanced through education, is an inherent quality. You can't take someone who is not smart and magically make them smart, even if they worked really hard in classes. Some people just cannot learn things.

And luck...no one has control of that.

And I am all for helping those that are challanged.

Unfortunately...and you can not deny this.....the majority of the poor are npt challanged. They simply dont want to take ON the challange.

For them, I say give them charity to survive......the word charity alone will motivate them to take on the challange. Once you call it entitlement, it is theirs to keep taking.

 

[Immanuel]

Plain and simple... the estimated tax rate under the Fair Tax is 23% last I read. At a 400/month credit that is approximately 1740 of taxable goods purchased during the month to use up the credit. Seeing as how at $20,500/year that is a monthly income of $1,708 it is a little difficult to understand how you come up with your figure.

I swear its like talking to a wall.

HELLO DO I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION?


Family of 4 at poverty line PRESENT TAX SITUATION

INCOME - $20,500
FICA TAX = 0.0765*20,500=$1568
EIC CREDIT = $4819


TOTAL TAX PAID=$1568-$4819 = -$3248



Family of 4 at poverty line "FAIR TAX" SITUATION

INCOME - $20,500
TOTAL ANNUAL PREBATE=$400*12=$4800
TOTAL ANNUAL SALES TAX (ALL MONEY SPENT) = 0.23*$20,500=$4715


TOTAL TAX PAID=$4715-$4800 = -$85


-$85 IS LARGER THAN $-3248 - THEY PAY MORE TAXES UNDER FAIR TAX

Hello!! Are you that dense!

The earned income credit is the exact same thing as the prebate. People who receive the EIC do so because they do not make enough money... BUT they are still taxed. They more than likely will end up with a negative tax bill, but in the same way, someone making at or below the poverty line is not going to spend all of that $400/month giving them a "TAX CREDIT".

What is so hard to understand about that?

Immie

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Plain and simple... the estimated tax rate under the Fair Tax is 23% last I read. At a 400/month credit that is approximately 1740 of taxable goods purchased during the month to use up the credit. Seeing as how at $20,500/year that is a monthly income of $1,708 it is a little difficult to understand how you come up with your figure.

I swear its like talking to a wall.

HELLO DO I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION?


Family of 4 at poverty line PRESENT TAX SITUATION

INCOME - $20,500
FICA TAX = 0.0765*20,500=$1568
EIC CREDIT = $4819


TOTAL TAX PAID=$1568-$4819 = -$3248



Family of 4 at poverty line "FAIR TAX" SITUATION

INCOME - $20,500
TOTAL ANNUAL PREBATE=$400*12=$4800
TOTAL ANNUAL SALES TAX (ALL MONEY SPENT) = 0.23*$20,500=$4715


TOTAL TAX PAID=$4715-$4800 = -$85


-$85 IS LARGER THAN $-3248 - THEY PAY MORE TAXES UNDER FAIR TAX

Hello!! Are you that dense!

The earned income credit is the exact same thing as the prebate. People who receive the EIC do so because they do not make enough money... BUT they are still taxed. They more than likely will end up with a negative tax bill, but in the same way, someone making at or below the poverty line is not going to spend all of that $400/month giving them a "TAX CREDIT".

What is so hard to understand about that?

Immie

You are neglecting the fact that when they spend their money they have to pay 30% more for stuff. The 4800 they get is paid back in sales tax. See math above.

 

[xotoxi]

No FICA tax withholdings. Social Security and medicare are funded by the Fair Tax.

Immie

I would like to propose the Unfair Tax.

The amount that each individual is required to pay for the previous year would be determined on January 1 at 12:00 midnight. It would be calculated by taking the total amount that the government spent in the previous year and dividing it by the national population.

Additionally, we would pay the national debt off over the next ten years, using this same method.

This year's tax would be $14,031.90 per person. So, my family of 4 would pay $56127.60. Octomom would pay $210478.50.

I think this tax system would be the best way to get our country back on track.

 

[beowolfe]

First off, under the Fair Tax plan they no longer pay FICA taxes which are no longer deducted from their paychecks at all so right there they net 1568 in FICA/Medicare tax savings plus they get the credit of more than $400/month which ends up to be roughly $5000/year and allows them to budget their expenses.

True people making minimum wage are having very little if any FWT taken from their checks. The Fair Tax "Credit" coincides with the EIC... by the way, you do realize that many who are entitled to the EIC don't even know what it is and don't collect it right? However, under the Fair Tax, it is not only income taxes that are eliminated. It is all federal taxes, i.e. the gas tax, excise tax on cigarettes, FICA taxes, Medicare Taxes, etc. etc. etc... taxes that the poor do in fact pay every day.

Immie

No FICA?? What happens to medicare and SS under your fair tax scheme?

No FICA tax withholdings. Social Security and medicare are funded by the Fair Tax.

Immie

when I run the numbers, the flat tax rate would have to be almost 30 percent to recoup the same amount as is being generated by the tax code now. Not that that is a bad thing, but I know it would look like a bad thing to the feds.

 

[xotoxi]

why do you think that I completely fail to understand this?

I was one of those people.

Poor as dirt.

No money, no roof, no bank account.

I bagged groceries at a Brooklyn Grocery Store at the age of 23.

I know poor...

And someone replaced me at bagging...as I built a company.

So why do you th8ink I am clueless?

Nice job.

You are clearly hard-working.

However, I assume that in addition to being hard-working, you are also intelligent, which allowed you the ability to plan, problem solve, and learn how a business is run, so that you could build a company.

If you aren't intelligent, then you were lucky.

There are a lot of very poor people who are hard-working, yet they are neither intelligent nor lucky. And those dumb, unlucky hard-working people probably will not advance out of a minimum wage, menial job, no matter how hard they work.

Is that their fault?

Being hard-working is the only quality that a person has full control over.

Intelligence, although it can be enhanced through education, is an inherent quality. You can't take someone who is not smart and magically make them smart, even if they worked really hard in classes. Some people just cannot learn things.

And luck...no one has control of that.

And I am all for helping those that are challanged.

Unfortunately...and you can not deny this.....the majority of the poor are npt challanged. They simply dont want to take ON the challange.

For them, I say give them charity to survive......the word charity alone will motivate them to take on the challange. Once you call it entitlement, it is theirs to keep taking.

I have a lot of poor patients and I disagree. The majority of the poor ARE challenged. The minority of the poor are lazy and work the system. And they piss me the **** off just as much as they piss you off.

 

[Oldandtired]

Nice job.

You are clearly hard-working.

However, I assume that in addition to being hard-working, you are also intelligent, which allowed you the ability to plan, problem solve, and learn how a business is run, so that you could build a company.

If you aren't intelligent, then you were lucky.

There are a lot of very poor people who are hard-working, yet they are neither intelligent nor lucky. And those dumb, unlucky hard-working people probably will not advance out of a minimum wage, menial job, no matter how hard they work.

Is that their fault?

Being hard-working is the only quality that a person has full control over.

Intelligence, although it can be enhanced through education, is an inherent quality. You can't take someone who is not smart and magically make them smart, even if they worked really hard in classes. Some people just cannot learn things.

And luck...no one has control of that.

And I am all for helping those that are challanged.

Unfortunately...and you can not deny this.....the majority of the poor are npt challanged. They simply dont want to take ON the challange.

For them, I say give them charity to survive......the word charity alone will motivate them to take on the challange. Once you call it entitlement, it is theirs to keep taking.

I have a lot of poor patients and I disagree. The majority of the poor ARE challenged. The minority of the poor are lazy and work the system. And they piss me the **** off just as much as they piss you off.

One of my companies is a temp agency...

Trust me...here in NY it is a majority....

 

[SpidermanTuba]

One of my companies is a temp agency...

Trust me...here in NY it is a majority....

So we should judge all of NY's poor based on the ones you deal with at your particular business ? That's an interesting way to come to truth.