Take the income tax quiz!!!

[SpidermanTuba]

So what is his drive to leave and seek a better position? I mean, he is respected. He is valued. He is happy.

I dunno, maybe his IQ is 80 and he can't handle a higher position. Maybe he likes washing dishes. That's kind of his business, don't you think?

So now he is happy AND his family eats...so where is the desire to take chances and get out of being poor?

So you're suggesting the restaurant doesn't actually need an experienced dishwasher?

Do you truly believe that being "happy" on the job should trump over being able to support your family?...

I'm not sure how this conversation wound up here.

All I'm saying is that you claim to have a good statistical sample of the poor based solely on the people that come to temp agencies looking for work, and I am pointing out that is scientifically preposterous. Temp agencies are far less likely to see the poor that can hold down a steady job - and they are far less likely to ever see the people who were temporarily poor on their way up to the middle class.

 

[Immanuel]

You're adding a nearly 30% sales tax to goods. That REDUCES purchasing power.

Again, you know nothing of the Fair Tax nor do you seem to know anything about the free market.

Then why do you keep talking to me?

From the Fair Tax Book:

Because you are not an idiot... although sometimes, I think you like to act like you are.

Immie

 

[Oldandtired]

So what is his drive to leave and seek a better position? I mean, he is respected. He is valued. He is happy.

I dunno, maybe his IQ is 80 and he can't handle a higher position. Maybe he likes washing dishes. That's kind of his business, don't you think?

So now he is happy AND his family eats...so where is the desire to take chances and get out of being poor?

So you're suggesting the restaurant doesn't actually need an experienced dishwasher?

Do you truly believe that being "happy" on the job should trump over being able to support your family?...

I'm not sure how this conversation wound up here.

All I'm saying is that you claim to have a good statistical sample of the poor based solely on the people that come to temp agencies looking for work, and I am pointing out that is scientifically preposterous. Temp agencies are far less likely to see the poor that can hold down a steady job - and they are far less likely to ever see the people who were temporarily poor on their way up to the middle class.

No...restaurants do not need experienced dishwashers....10 years of experience does not make one a better dishwasher.....they need dishwashers...and when one becomes priced out of the position, he had better have expanded his skill set or he will be replaced.

If you had a gardener who only mowed your lawn...nothing else....just mow your lawn...and every year he asked for more based on his "increase in experience"....would you pay him more? Would you feel yopu are getting your money's worth if you started paying him 20 a week to mow your lawn and 5 years later you are paying him 30 a week for the exact same result? I know....you would pay more based on your relationship developed over 5 years......what if paying him more meant less money to meet your bills?
Like is an issue of a restaurant owner?

As for maybe he likes washing dishes.....well.....I like fishing. I love fishing. But I can not support my family fishing...I can make a buck doing it, but I can not meet my responsibilities with the little money I make fishing....SO THAT IS NOT AN OPTION.....

Unless....

The government will feed my family, pay for my healthcare, subsidize my housing cost....send me a welfare check.....so I can now fish and be happy and not need to worry.

THAT IS MY POINT.

As for the 80 IQ........100 is average....so that being said, I am not referring to the minority of the popor that struggle due to being unable.

I am referring to a GROUP OF the majority of the poor that have IQ's around 100 that only need to apply themselves to get out of being poor....willing to sacrifice pleasure in a job so they can meet their responsibilities.

Why do you keep altering the scenario to meet you side of the argument.

You now have all of the poor as being unable to perfomr anything but menial jobs due to low IQ......

Most of the poor can do more. Many of them simply have no incentive to do more.

Look at it this way:

Job 1....makes me happy...pays me 20K a year...and I get 10K a year in entitlements.
Job 2....harder...longer commute...but pays me 30K a year....but I lose my entitlements.

WHere is the incentive to go to job number 2?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

No...restaurants do not need experienced dishwashers....

Yeah, because they like it when their dishes get accidentally dropped on the floor and when little bits of food are still on the plates. Fine dining establishments especially like this.

As for maybe he likes washing dishes.....well.....I like fishing. I love fishing.

Next time you go to a restaurant I sincerely hope they ask you to wash your own fucking dishes.




The avg dishwasher salary is about 19k. If both parents are doing it that's 46k. Are you telling me people have no business raising a child on 38k? Because if that's the case I'm wandering who think is going to produce the goods and services 20 years from now.


Looks like people are willing to pay a little more for experience, too
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Dishwasher/Hourly_Rate

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Plain and simple... the estimated tax rate under the Fair Tax is 23% last I read. At a 400/month credit that is approximately 1740 of taxable goods purchased during the month to use up the credit. Seeing as how at $20,500/year that is a monthly income of $1,708 it is a little difficult to understand how you come up with your figure.

I swear its like talking to a wall.

HELLO DO I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION?


Family of 4 at poverty line PRESENT TAX SITUATION

INCOME - $20,500
FICA TAX = 0.0765*20,500=$1568
EIC CREDIT = $4819


TOTAL TAX PAID=$1568-$4819 = -$3248



Family of 4 at poverty line "FAIR TAX" SITUATION

INCOME - $20,500
TOTAL ANNUAL PREBATE=$400*12=$4800
TOTAL ANNUAL SALES TAX (ALL MONEY SPENT) = 0.23*$20,500=$4715


TOTAL TAX PAID=$4715-$4800 = -$85


-$85 IS LARGER THAN $-3248 - THEY PAY MORE TAXES UNDER FAIR TAX

I think its been pointed out, but you're missing taxes on gasoline, phone lines, etc. in your first case.

I'd put down money that if you could get together figures for average gas expenditures and other utilities that incurr federal fees and taxes that under the current system a family of 4 at $20,500 would probably still pay less under the current system.

I'm not a big fan of our current tax system, but the Progressive tax system with Exemptions and Credits has an enormuous number of pluses that a simpler tax system lacks.

 

[Oldandtired]

No...restaurants do not need experienced dishwashers....

Yeah, because they like it when their dishes get accidentally dropped on the floor and when little bits of food are still on the plates. Fine dining establishments especially like this.

As for maybe he likes washing dishes.....well.....I like fishing. I love fishing.

Next time you go to a restaurant I sincerely hope they ask you to wash your own fucking dishes.

Oh...I see...you need years of experience in washing dishes to learn not to drop them.

And as for your second line....

It is quitre evident to me that you only wanted to be right and not interested in seeing where maybe....just maybe......you may not know the whole picture.

I presented facts, experience and finally logic (with the scenario in bold in my last post...that you, of course, ignored....and what do I get in resturn?

"Next time you go to a restaurant I sincerely hope they ask you to wash your own fucking dishes"

Well, I guess you were nothing more than a waste of time to me.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Oh...I see...you need years of experience in washing dishes to learn not to drop them.

You need experience to know how to wash them FAST and not drop them and still manage to get them clean.

I take it you've never worked in a kitchen.

 

[Oldandtired]

Oh...I see...you need years of experience in washing dishes to learn not to drop them.

You need experience to know how to wash them FAST and not drop them and still manage to get them clean.

I take it you've never worked in a kitchen.

That is where your problem is.
You assume things that are not logical.
I got news for ya bud.......if a dishwasher is till breaking dishes regularly after one week....he will be fired...and rightfully so.

Jeez...you now have dishwashing as a skill that requires years of dedication and training to acheive success at washing dishes......all in an effort to win a debate......

Do you truly not see how rediculous that sounds?

And as for my past.....bagged groceries.....mowed lawns.....performed manual demolition....drove a cab......

Hated everyone of them but it put food on my table....and it allowed me the time to get on my feet.

But please.....go ahead......tell me how much skill, dedication and training is needed to bag groceries.

I am glad you feel you are right. Ignore facts, stats logic...as long as you are right.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Oh...I see...you need years of experience in washing dishes to learn not to drop them.

Really? I had no idea. Thanks for informing me. I was just saying that people pay more for experience. That's a fact.

PayScale - Dishwasher Wages, Hourly Wage Rate

And as for my past.....bagged groceries.....mowed lawns.....performed manual demolition....drove a cab......

I knew you hadn't ever worked in a kitchen.

But please.....go ahead......tell me how much skill, dedication and training is needed to bag groceries.

Why don't you? You seem to be the expert on such matters.

 

[Oldandtired]

Oh...I see...you need years of experience in washing dishes to learn not to drop them.

Really? I had no idea. Thanks for informing me. I was just saying that people pay more for experience. That's a fact.

PayScale - Dishwasher Wages, Hourly Wage Rate

And as for my past.....bagged groceries.....mowed lawns.....performed manual demolition....drove a cab......

I knew you hadn't ever worked in a kitchen.

But please.....go ahead......tell me how much skill, dedication and training is needed to bag groceries.

Why don't you? You seem to be the expert on such matters.

Thanks for the payscale....it supports my argument.
Over the years, you hit a ceiling....that pretty much does not go above 20% of where you started.

Nope...never worked in a kitchen. You dont need to shovel horseshit to know what it must be like to shovel horseshit.

I AM an expert on such matters....

I was president of my Temprary staffing trade association (NYC CHapter)
I was board memeber of my Penmanent Staffing trade association (NYS Chapter)
I wrote for for quarterly trade association newsletters.
I currently write monthly corporate newsletters for temp and perm staffing.
I Own a temp agency....and have for over 25 years
I own a perm agency....and have for nearly 27 years
I do monthly quarterly and annual reviews regarding unemployment claims for my temp agency.
I perform monthly quarterly and annual reviews of staffing practices in NYC for all industries in NYC.

So yes, I am an expert on such matters of employment.

And I take it you are a dishwasher based on your elitist attitutde displayed when you CONFIRMED that I never worked in a kitchen before.

Good for you...I hear there is a training course to teach those with 20 years or more experience in dishwashing the ins and outs of getting rid of them there pesky little spots on drinking glasses. Feel free to ask for details.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Thanks for the payscale....it supports my argument.

You don't have an argument. You're just babbling.

Nope...never worked in a kitchen.

I know this. I worked in one not very long. But it doesn't take working in a kitchen very long to be able to easily tell the difference between those who have and those who haven't.

You dont need to shovel horseshit to know what it must be like to shovel horseshit.

They don't shovel horseshit in kitchens. Its too messy.

 

[uscitizen]

In my neck of the woods the displaced older workers are now the main staffs at the fastfood joints.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

In my neck of the woods the displaced older workers are now the main staffs at the fastfood joints.

I'm starting to see that too.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

In my neck of the woods the displaced older workers are now the main staffs at the fastfood joints.

they must be lazy and unmotivated

 

[uscitizen]

In my neck of the woods the displaced older workers are now the main staffs at the fastfood joints.

they must be lazy and unmotivated

Au Contrare. They are trying to make money to support themselves and their families.
Some people do what they have to do to survive.
And some just whine or blame others for their misfortune.

If a job exists then it is obviously needed and those performing that work should be respected for doing it.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

In my neck of the woods the displaced older workers are now the main staffs at the fastfood joints.

they must be lazy and unmotivated

Au Contrare. They are trying to make money to support themselves and their families.
Some people do what they have to do to survive.
And some just whine or blame others for their misfortune.

If a job exists then it is obviously needed and those performing that work should be respected for doing it.

I don't think Oldandtired respects kitchen workers.

 

[uscitizen]

they must be lazy and unmotivated

Au Contrare. They are trying to make money to support themselves and their families.
Some people do what they have to do to survive.
And some just whine or blame others for their misfortune.

If a job exists then it is obviously needed and those performing that work should be respected for doing it.

I don't think Oldandtired respects kitchen workers.

Every worker deserves respect as long as they are doing the best job they can.

I guess old does not like eating well prepared food or eating on clean dishes or pissing in a clean urinal?

Are we drifting towards eliteism here?

 

[Oldandtired]

Thanks for the payscale....it supports my argument.

You don't have an argument. You're just babbling.

Nope...never worked in a kitchen.

I know this. I worked in one not very long. But it doesn't take working in a kitchen very long to be able to easily tell the difference between those who have and those who haven't.

You dont need to shovel horseshit to know what it must be like to shovel horseshit.

They don't shovel horseshit in kitchens. Its too messy.

Your problem is quite apparent.

You see one who discusses a topic he has a vast amount of experience in as one who is babbling.

Sort of makes it impossible to learn...do you wish not to learn?

Good for you. Please...continue with your dishwashing carreer.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

You see one who discusses a topic he has a vast amount of experience in as one who is babbling.

Honestly, what's the topic? Seems to wander from page to page.

 

[uscitizen]

Thanks for the payscale....it supports my argument.

You don't have an argument. You're just babbling.


I know this. I worked in one not very long. But it doesn't take working in a kitchen very long to be able to easily tell the difference between those who have and those who haven't.

You dont need to shovel horseshit to know what it must be like to shovel horseshit.

They don't shovel horseshit in kitchens. Its too messy.

Your problem is quite apparent.

You see one who discusses a topic he has a vast amount of experience in as one who is babbling.

Sort of makes it impossible to learn...do you wish not to learn?

Good for you. Please...continue with your dishwashing carreer.

Actually I used to work with ARC and a dishwashing career is actually all some people can handle and we praised them for doing a good job of it. Working with ARC was an eyeopening experience for learning to be gratreful for what you have and to not belittle anyone's positive contribution to our society.

Now the TSA will make em security guards, but I think that is pushing it a bit.