Take Sides - Israel or Hamas Terrorists - Choose ONLY ONE!

[surada]

Where did I say "all"?...Warfare in urban civilian areas gets civilians killed...That's nothing new.

In the meantime, jihadist scum build their HQs under hospitals and schools, while hand wringing saps like you weep and wail about the "genocide" when those places get caught up in the crosfire.

You think for a change.

So what will the Israelis do? Should they just continue killing them so they can take all the land?

They were never given Gaza, East Jerusalem, the West Bank or Syria's Golan heights.

 

[sparky]

"We must take sides.

Explain why we have a dog in their fight first.....

~S~

 

[toomuchtime_]

So what will the Israelis do? Should they just continue killing them so they can take all the land?

They were never given Gaza, East Jerusalem, the West Bank or Syria's Golan heights.

Israel will do whatever it has to do to prevent Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. from ever being able to launch a large scale attack on Israel again, so if Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. surrender and turn in all their weapons, the fighting will end and no one else will die, but we all know that will not happen.

Hamas has built at least 350 miles, and perhaps as much as 500 miles of military tunnels under this tiny strip of land, so that nearly every building in Gaza is built atop or near a tunnel or tunnel exist that must be destroyed, and that means civilian casualties will continue to be high, but since Israel is abiding meticulously by International Law in this operation, you can take comfort in the fact that the number of civilian casualties is the minimum necessary to complete the mission of destroying Hamas' ability to launch large scale attacks on Israel.

Gaza, the West Bank, Including East Jerusalem, Golan Heights, were all given to Israel by the Arab nations that chose to launch attacks on Israel from these sites. No do overs.

 

[buttercup]

Fan of his work. . .

Have you seen his movie yet?

I have been thinking about getting it, as I know that is the only way I will ever have a chance to see it. . . I'm pretty sure no streaming service will carry it, and it won't be found in any store. It doesn't seem very ESG friendly.

My problem, is I don't do on-line commerce, so I will have to make some special arrangements to get a hold of a copy, which will be a pain.

I just want to know if it is worth all that trouble. . . .

No I haven't seen that yet, but I want to! I need to look into where I can find it, haven't done that... but I heard good things about it. If I do see it, I'll let you know. I'm not an anarchist (yet haha) but I like his work too.

 

[surada]

Israel will do whatever it has to do to prevent Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. from ever being able to launch a large scale attack on Israel again, so if Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. surrender and turn in all their weapons, the fighting will end and no one else will die, but we all know that will not happen.

Hamas has built at least 350 miles, and perhaps as much as 500 miles of military tunnels under this tiny strip of land, so that nearly every building in Gaza is built atop or near a tunnel or tunnel exist that must be destroyed, and that means civilian casualties will continue to be high, but since Israel is abiding meticulously by International Law in this operation, you can take comfort in the fact that the number of civilian casualties is the minimum necessary to complete the mission of destroying Hamas' ability to launch large scale attacks on Israel.

Gaza, the West Bank, Including East Jerusalem, Golan Heights, were all given to Israel by the Arab nations that chose to launch attacks on Israel from these sites. No do overs.

Israel has supported Hamas since it was an idea. Netanyahu said they are part of his strategy to prevent any 2 state solution.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

An image of a young woman's naked and mutilated body being paraded by Hamas has won a top photo award - sparking outrage from many people online.

The disturbing picture shows the half-naked corpse of Shani Louk, a German-Israeli dual citizen, being transported in the back of a van on Saturday, October 7. Out of respect for Shani TheMirror.com has chosen to pixelate the photo. Photographer Ali Mahmoud captured the bone-chilling moment and has since picked up the Team Picture Story of the Year from the Donald W. Reynolds Journalism Institute at the Missouri School of Journalism.

Outrage as photo of Hamas parading victim's naked and mutilated body wins award

WARNING - DISTRESSING CONTENT: A controversial image from an Associated Press photographer depicting the moment Hamas terrorists transported the half-naked corpse of young German-Israeli woman Shani Louk has won an award - and sparked anger online

www.mirror.co.uk

l’ve seen the un pixilated version of that lovely young girl, with her whole life before her.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Israel has supported Hamas since it was an idea. Netanyahu said they are part of his strategy to prevent any 2 state solution.

Israel never supported Hamas. It did provide some help to a Muslim charity before the first intifada that later morphed into Hamas, but Israel never supported Hamas. The purpose of helping this Muslim charity was to find an alternative to the PLO - there was no Palestinian Authority at that time - and later Israel did allow Qatar to send money to Gaza in a failed attempt to avoid war, but after the 2005 withdrawal from Gaza, Israel allowed the PA to send 13,000 armed troops from teh West Bank to Gaza to take control, and the PA, which had more than four times the number of troops Hamas had, proved to whole world that it was not capable of holding on to Gaza or of running a Palestinians state.

A two state solution was never possible because the Palestinians were never willing to live in peace with Israel.

 

[buttercup]

 

[buttercup]

 

[toomuchtime_]

Paul is wrong. There was no Hamas until 1987, and there is no record of any help from Israel after 1987. Paul, like you, is seeking truth and justice in his imagination, not in the facts on the ground.

His bias, like yours, is clear: even if he were correct - and he is not -about Israel aiding Hamas, in the current situation it is irrelevant since whatever happened in the past, Israel has the responsibility to protect its citizens now and that is clearly not possible as long as Hamas remains in power in Gaza.

 

[surada]

Israel never supported Hamas. It did provide some help to a Muslim charity before the first intifada that later morphed into Hamas, but Israel never supported Hamas. The purpose of helping this Muslim charity was to find an alternative to the PLO - there was no Palestinian Authority at that time - and later Israel did allow Qatar to send money to Gaza in a failed attempt to avoid war, but after the 2005 withdrawal from Gaza, Israel allowed the PA to send 13,000 armed troops from teh West Bank to Gaza to take control, and the PA, which had more than four times the number of troops Hamas had, proved to whole world that it was not capable of holding on to Gaza or of running a Palestinians state.

A two state solution was never possible because the Palestinians were never willing to live in peace with Israel.

The Palestinians and every Arab state signed on for the Saudi peace initiative in 2002 to guarantee Israel's security and commerce and diplomatic relations. Ariel Sharon mocked it and tried to ake the Hasbani river in Lebanon.

 

[surada]

"There is a third option (between supporting Israel or terrorosts.)
Yes. Cowardice
Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the oppressed.

How Israel helped prop up Hamas for decades | Analyst News

What is Hamas, and why has Israel deliberately enabled its existence for years?

www.analystnews.org

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas - WSJ

www.wsj.com

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

theintercept.com

 

[buttercup]

Paul is wrong. There was no Hamas until 1987, and there is no record of any help from Israel after 1987. Paul, like you, is seeking truth and justice in his imagination, not in the facts on the ground.

His bias, like yours, is clear: even if he were correct - and he is not -about Israel aiding Hamas, in the current situation it is irrelevant since whatever happened in the past, Israel has the responsibility to protect its citizens now and that is clearly not possible as long as Hamas remains in power in Gaza.

Yes, of course Israel has the responsibility to protect its citizens, I don't think anyone here ever denied that. That doesn't change the fact that you and others here are very naïve about the whole situation over there and about how certain terrorist groups get started in the first place, and how they are used by bigger powers for strategic purposes. And I'm not talking only about Israel.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Did Netanyahu express support of Hamas in 2019?​

When discussing the ongoing Israel/Hamas war, the following quotes occasionally come up.

Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas

This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.

These were supposedly said by Netanyahu in March of 2019.
If true, then this would be pretty incriminating, considering that Hamas had long been recognized as a terrorist organization by that time.
I tried to track down the source of this claim, and every source I found referenced this column in Haaretz, but that is where the trail runs cold. Archive link
The column makes no mention of how they know that Netanyahu said this
If Netanyahu really said this, the implications are big. So big, that I'm not ready to take some columnist's word for it.
Where did this quote come from? Is it reliable?

Did Netanyahu express support of Hamas in 2019?

When discussing the ongoing Israel/Hamas war, the following quotes occasionally come up. Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and

skeptics.stackexchange.com

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Palestinians and every Arab state signed on for the Saudi peace initiative in 2002 to guarantee Israel's security and commerce and diplomatic relations. Ariel Sharon mocked it and tried to ake the Hasbani river in Lebanon.

The Saudi proposal guaranteed nothing. It proposed normalization of relations with Israel if Israel gave all of the West Bank and Gaza, including East Jerusalem, but each Arab state would have to decide for itself how far it would go in normalizing relations with Israel. Sharon immediately offered to negotiate an agreement with the Saudi government but was told it would be unseemly for the King to talk to Israel, and that was the end of it.

Keep in mind 2002 was the heart of the second intifada, when the polls showed the great majority of Palestinians were opposed to peace with Israel and streams of wannabe suicide bombers from both the West Bank and Gaza were trying to get inside Israel to blow up any Israelis they could find; nonetheless, Sharon was willing to talk to the Saudis about their proposal, but they refused to talk directly to Israe.

 

[surada]

The Saudi proposal guaranteed nothing. It proposed normalization of relations with Israel if Israel gave all of the West Bank and Gaza, including East Jerusalem, but each Arab state would have to decide for itself how far it would go in normalizing relations with Israel. Sharon immediately offered to negotiate an agreement with the Saudi government but was told it would be unseemly for the King to talk to Israel, and that was the end of it.

Keep in mind 2002 was the heart of the second intifada, when the polls showed the great majority of Palestinians were opposed to peace with Israel and streams of wannabe suicide bombers from both the West Bank and Gaza were trying to get inside Israel to blow up any Israelis they could find; nonetheless, Sharon was willing to talk to the Saudis about their proposal, but they refused to talk directly to Israe.

Sharon mocked the Saudi peace initiative. He didn't offer anything.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Sharon mocked the Saudi peace initiative. He didn't offer anything.

Then what happened?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yes, of course Israel has the responsibility to protect its citizens, I don't think anyone here ever denied that. That doesn't change the fact that you and others here are very naïve about the whole situation over there and about how certain terrorist groups get started in the first place, and how they are used by bigger powers for strategic purposes. And I'm not talking only about Israel.

Whatever way you want to believe Hamas got started, it is irrelevant to the situation today. Hamas is committed to making war against Israel until Israel is destroyed and the only way to protect Israeli citizens is to destroy Hamas and for Israel to maintain security control over Gaza for the foreseeable future to prevent terrorist groups from springing up again. Israel is presently pursuing this goal is the most humane way possible.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Sharon mocked the Saudi peace initiative. He didn't offer anything.

He offered to talk them and when they refused he dismissed the initiative and just PR, which it was.

 

[buttercup]

Whatever way you want to believe Hamas got started, it is irrelevant to the situation today. Hamas is committed to making war against Israel until Israel is destroyed and the only way to protect Israeli citizens is to destroy Hamas and for Israel to maintain security control over Gaza for the foreseeable future to prevent terrorist groups from springing up again. Israel is presently pursuing this goal is the most humane way possible.

Sigh. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't talking only about how it got started. You left out this part: "and how they are used by bigger powers for strategic purposes. And I'm not talking only about Israel."

See, here's why truth should always be paramount. Because if you put things like nationality, religion, race, political parties, etc above what's more important, you are not going to have much interest in digging deeper for the actual truth, because you're too busy defending your "team." And again, that is precisely what the powers-that-shouldn't-be want us all to do... they want everyone to pick a team or "side" and hate anyone they think is on the other side. I posted a video earlier that talked about this in a very clear way, if you didn't see it, take a look at the video in post #74.

But you know what? Since I probably won't be able to prove to you, to your satisfaction, that you "go team" types are being played, I'm not even going to try to convince you. At least not right now, since it's getting super late here and I'm going to sign off.