Taiwan/China Games or Practice?

[Annie]

Taiwan is uneasy:


Excerpt:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...716&e=13&u=/nm/20040815/ts_nm/taiwan_china_dc

Taiwan Premier Says China Practicing for War

17 minutes ago


TAIPEI (Reuters) - China has been practicing an attack on Taiwan's capital and capturing the island's leaders to simulate a so-called "beheading action," Taiwan Premier Yu Shyi-kun said Sunday.

Tensions have been running high in the Taiwan Strait as China prepares for a possible military showdown, convinced Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian will push for formal statehood during his second term, which began in May.

Both sides are holding their annual war games, with China -- which views the island as a renegade province -- staging mock-invasion drills and Taiwan pretending to fend off an attack.

Yu said Beijing began to simulate an attack targeting Taiwan leaders after the capture of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein (news - web sites).

"After the Iraq (news - web sites) war, China has targeted Taiwan leaders, Taiwan's capital, and the presidential office in its so-called beheading action," Yu said aboard a plane to Central America after a stopover in Los Angeles, where he met some U.S. congressmen.

 

[wade]

Jeeze,

Wasn't it you who jumped all over my ass when I suggested that China might use US over-extension in the mid-east as an opportunity to reclaim Tiawan? Wern't you on the bandwagon of people saying this was an abserd contention and that China would never even think about such a thing?

Wade.

 

[HGROKIT]

Jeeze,

Wasn't it you who jumped all over my ass when I suggested that China might use US over-extension in the mid-east as an opportunity to reclaim Tiawan? Wern't you on the bandwagon of people saying this was an abserd contention and that China would never even think about such a thing?

Wade.

I do not think she was stating or implying anything; just posting an article for discussion.

Are you feeling guilty about something?

 

[Annie]

Jeeze,

Wasn't it you who jumped all over my ass when I suggested that China might use US over-extension in the mid-east as an opportunity to reclaim Tiawan? Wern't you on the bandwagon of people saying this was an abserd contention and that China would never even think about such a thing?

Wade.

:baby:

Really, I haven't bothered to reply to you several times, this is the last one.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Jeeze,

Wasn't it you who jumped all over my ass when I suggested that China might use US over-extension in the mid-east as an opportunity to reclaim Tiawan? Wern't you on the bandwagon of people saying this was an abserd contention and that China would never even think about such a thing?

Wade.

It's not your facts and knowledge we abhor, wade;It's your erroneous weak-kneed conclusions we can't stand. According to you, we should lay down and die. That's just foolhardy.

 

[wade]

It's not your facts and knowledge we abhor, wade;It's your erroneous weak-kneed conclusions we can't stand. According to you, we should lay down and die. That's just foolhardy.

Not hardly. We should however be smart about how and where we take action. Most of you people do not think, you just mimic the bull shit you are told by your right-wing heros. You make no effort to try to understand the other side, no matter what it is - your side is right and the other side does not matter. But do you understand how foolish it is not to study and understand your enemy?

You should seek as much knowlege as possible about a situation BEFORE MAKING UP YOUR MIND ABOUT IT!

I enjoy discussions. I use this board to make me think about the topics at hand from a different perspective, and often take positions that are not the same as my actual real life position because I want to see what arguments and info you guys will provide. But you don't do your part. You just babble tripe and throw insults rather than making arguments of substance.

I chose this board because it is not like my normal usenet discussion forums, which are dominated by acadamicians and scientists. I had hoped to get some new and fresh perspectives - but all you people seem to do is regurgitate what can be had on FOX news. I don't think you people actually read books. It is getting very old very fast.

I had hoped you would give me some good right-wing arguments to use in predominatly left-wing discussions - but alas, it appears it is not going to happen.

Wade.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Not hardly. We should however be smart about how and where we take action. Most of you people do not think, you just mimic the bull shit you are told by your right-wing heros. You make no effort to try to understand the other side, no matter what it is - your side is right and the other side does not matter. But do you understand how foolish it is not to study and understand your enemy?

You should seek as much knowlege as possible about a situation BEFORE MAKING UP YOUR MIND ABOUT IT!

I enjoy discussions. I use this board to make me think about the topics at hand from a different perspective, and often take positions that are not the same as my actual real life position because I want to see what arguments and info you guys will provide. But you don't do your part. You just babble tripe and throw insults rather than making arguments of substance.

I chose this board because it is not like my normal usenet discussion forums, which are dominated by acadamicians and scientists. I had hoped to get some new and fresh perspectives - but all you people seem to do is regurgitate what can be had on FOX news. I don't think you people actually read books. It is getting very old very fast.

I had hoped you would give me some good right-wing arguments to use in predominatly left-wing discussions - but alas, it appears it is not going to happen.

Wade.

Blah. blah. The fact remains, the war on terror is real. It is not a practice in deception as the rabid left portrays.

I understand why the tyrants of the islamic world have turned a generation of their youth into hate machines. They see that their societies are weakened by their own tyrannical ways. Economically they fail, because individuals are not empowered to bring their gifts to the world at large. They see that free societies have a strength (much like the point to point nature of computer and neural networks) that will always make them stronger and better than top down autocracy. Instead of giving their people freedom, empowering them to compete against free societies, they would rather destroy freedom where they find it, and they don't mind turning a generation of their youth into suicide bombers to do it. Their own personal power is worth more to them than the very survival of their people.

Did you see the thread on how the unemployment rate in Iran will be over 50% for ages 15-29 in the next two years? Do you think this is by accident? This is their jihad army.

As far as your alleged openmindedness, and intellectuality, I don't see it. You're just another rabid lib. No merit. No conscience. No class. Your in full bore reality denial mode.

 

[wade]

Blah. blah. The fact remains, the war on terror is real. It is not a practice in deception as the rabid left portrays.

I understand why the tyrants of the islamic world have turned a generation of their youth into hate machines. They see that their societies are weakened by their own tyrannical ways. Economically they fail, because individuals are not empowered to bring their gifts to the world at large. They see that free societies have a strength (much like the point to point nature of computer and neural networks) that will always make them stronger and better than top down autocracy. Instead of giving their people freedom, empowering them to compete against free societies, they would rather destroy freedom where they find it, and they don't mind turning a generation of their youth into suicide bombers to do it. Their own personal power is worth more to them than the very survival of their people.

Did you see the thread on how the unemployment rate in Iran will be over 50% for ages 15-29 in the next two years? Do you think this is by accident? This is their jihad army.

As far as your alleged openmindedness, and intellectuality, I don't see it. You're just another rabid lib. No merit. No conscience. No class. Your in full bore reality denial mode.

Let me first say however that I agree Islamic rule is backwards and cannot compete with the west. As I've said before, all large scale organized religion is just a means to subjugate the minds of the masses. Religion is responsible for far more evil than good.

I think you totally misunderstand the Islamic thinking. Iranian unemployment rates are no conspiracy of the leadership - they are just the natural consequence of a population growing faster than an economy. The same could be said for many nations - just look south.

Of course you cannot see it - you cannot see anything that does not fit into your narrow view of the world. Or rather - you won't.

Wade.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Let me first say however that I agree Islamic rule is backwards and cannot compete with the west. As I've said before, all large scale organized religion is just a means to subjugate the minds of the masses. Religion is responsible for far more evil than good.

Wrong, communist religion basher. Religion has also provided a prosocial structure for peaceful cooperation as well. Considering humanity has never been isolated from religion in a manner to have a decent control group, your spurious assertions are unproveable.

I think you totally misunderstand the Islamic thinking. Iranian unemployment rates are no conspiracy of the leadership - they are just the natural consequence of a population growing faster than an economy. The same could be said for many nations - just look south.

The leaders know full well that american style free markets and personal ownership would grow their economies. The thing is, THEY DON"T WANT TO GIVE UP THAT AMOUNT OF POWER. Oppressing people is why they become leaders. It's very old school. The eurolibs suffer from the same destructive despotic tendencies.

Of course you cannot see it - you cannot see anything that does not fit into your narrow view of the world. Or rather - you won't.

Wade.

You're the rabid, reality-denying ideologue here, Wade. Please wise up, Schnookums.




Wade

 

[NATO AIR]

We just completed our own war games (JASEX 04) with another aircraft carrier John C. Stennis (and are now back in port), which basically is a US-Japanese practice of what to do to retake Taiwan from the Chinese.... if the chinese want to try something (which sadly, i think they will,and soon, probably while i'm still here), we will do our best to be ready to rescue the taiwanese from Chinese domination.

i just hope that our nation's leadership (perhaps worried of the cost and consequences of a non-nuclear war with china) will not abandon the taiwanese to chinese oppression.

its crazy, but the chinese, in practicing these "Decapitation" strikes, are taking what they learned from the best: the US quick strikes in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[wade]

The idea of a non-nuclear war with China over Taiwan is pretty silly don't you think?

Wade.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The idea of a non-nuclear war with China over Taiwan is pretty silly don't you think?

Wade.

Don't you think it's a bit nationalist, pompous and evil for China to feel they have manifest destiny over taiwan? Or do you save that viewpoint only for things American.

You're transparent wade. Go get some calcium and protein. You're skin and bones! eat, boy! eat!

 

[NATO AIR]

actually not

the chinese know they would be totally wiped out by a US nuclear response to a chinese nuclear attack on US forces or Japan.

henceforth, there will be a conventional war between China and the US, likely in the next three years

the culprits will be the unjust and unelected rulers of china, who are not held responsible to their people and have total power.

if they feel that taiwan is slipping away, they will move to take it.

they hope, if they take it with such overwhelming force, that the US and Japan will decide not to fight and just accept a chinese invasion of taiwan

let's hope the US and Japan decide to stand up for freedom and defend taiwan.

 

[Annie]

actually not

the chinese know they would be totally wiped out by a US nuclear response to a chinese nuclear attack on US forces or Japan.

henceforth, there will be a conventional war between China and the US, likely in the next three years

the culprits will be the unjust and unelected rulers of china, who are not held responsible to their people and have total power.

if they feel that taiwan is slipping away, they will move to take it.

they hope, if they take it with such overwhelming force, that the US and Japan will decide not to fight and just accept a chinese invasion of taiwan

let's hope the US and Japan decide to stand up for freedom and defend taiwan.

Maybe I'm way off base, I hope so, but I just cannot see a conventional confrontation between US and China that does not escalate into something more. Personally, I think we will attack or have some sort of showdown over NK, not Taiwan, Which will result in closer relations with China. They are NOT ready for a real fight.

 

[NATO AIR]

the chinese sure act like it though. they're spending money on subs (our main weakness at sea, as they and all of our other enemies know very well now) like no tomorrow and with french and russian help are amassing large amounts of armaments and weapons systems.

i agree north korea is more likely, and i just don't see a happy ending with that crisis.

 

[Annie]

the chinese sure act like it though. they're spending money on subs (our main weakness at sea, as they and all of our other enemies know very well now) like no tomorrow and with french and russian help are amassing large amounts of armaments and weapons systems.

i agree north korea is more likely, and i just don't see a happy ending with that crisis.

Nato, you are an American and by the nature of the beast, you see the dealings with 'foreigners' by education and personal experience, that the best way to deal with 'outsiders' to be clear and transparent, (redundant I know, but we think necessary.) We have no desire to 'make war' with China, and want to make that perfectly clear. They may want different, but in all liklihood, they are sabrerattling. We don't really do that, unless England or France wish to war with us.

 

[NATO AIR]

yea, they are saber rattling.

you know we are invited to visit shanghai next year (by their mayor and the chinese premier) (our aircraft carrier and several small ships are invited for a several day port call)


i hope we do, maybe it will do the slightest of good for our relations.

 

[wade]

Don't you think it's a bit nationalist, pompous and evil for China to feel they have manifest destiny over taiwan? Or do you save that viewpoint only for things American.

You're transparent wade. Go get some calcium and protein. You're skin and bones! eat, boy! eat!

Ummm... I never said I in any way thought that China has any right to Tiawan. That is not the point. The point is that they think they do and have made it clear they intend to take it back - the only ? being when.

Go away Wing - I'm tired of your BS quips. If you're not going to actually debate and you're not even going to try to support your arguments with anything but your own opinions, please stop replying to my posts.

I know your point of view - your just flooding this board with the same crap over and over - Your opinion along with juvinile insults.

Wade.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Don't you think it's a bit nationalist, pompous and evil for China to feel they have manifest destiny over taiwan? Or do you save that viewpoint only for things American.

does the term 'domestic, dependent nations' mean anything?

 

[wade]

Maybe I'm way off base, I hope so, but I just cannot see a conventional confrontation between US and China that does not escalate into something more. Personally, I think we will attack or have some sort of showdown over NK, not Taiwan, Which will result in closer relations with China. They are NOT ready for a real fight.

Exactly. The US will simply make it clear that any war is a nuclear war, as has been policy for 50 years.

Wade.