Systemical Racism

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Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

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Actually, what I've found is that TV makes guns sound louder than they actually are... but according to your statement, you knew they were fighting before the gun went off...

Again, Mrs. Kravitz, you really need to get a life.
When did I state that? Show me. To be honest, I didn't hear the gun, my tenant did and he's the one that called police. Now, the gunfire may have woken me up, but what I heard was him and her screaming at each other.

BTW what episode of Bewitched did Darin lock out Samantha at 4:00 in the morning, and Samantha took bricks and hurl them at the windows breaking them? When did Darrin ever fire a gun at that time in the morning at Samantha?

In addition to my army service, I lived in Cicero, IL, where gunfire was a common thing. No, what you describe isn't credible, because, as you said, you knew they were arguing before the shots went off.

I've fired lots of guns. I just don't have the weird fetish for them you have.
You would have never made such a stupid statement if you were ever even around a gun going off. You are a lying dog faced pony solder.

Um, yeah, guy, the thing is, I've seen a lot of white folks get promotions because they were a friend of the boss or a relative or some other form of white privilege... while black folks get passed up for jobs.
You seen.....

Your claim is people were promoted because of their race over more qualified blacks. Yet you support unions who do the exact same thing only by union tenure instead of race.
 

JoeB131

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Professional sports are great examples, they just don't support your narrative so you choose to ignore them.
They aren't a good example for reasons pointed out...

You need a lobotomy to rid yourself of guilt. I am not privileged because I am white, I am privileged because I know what I am doing and am rewarded accordingly.
Says the guy who lives somewhere in Jesusland where they were proud of that time they almost destroyed the country so that a few rich assholes could keep owning black people.

But I'm sure you are very proud of your double wide.
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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"This is what we found".... ok.... prove it. Provide the evidence. Where are the numbers? Where are the facts? Where is the prohof?

"The division reviewed tens of thousands of pages of documents"

Great... where are they? Show them. Show us what they say. Show us the numbers.
You can obtain the data and the results of their research, you just have to ask for it.

Every time we post information that shows the racial disparities in stops, enforcement, convictions and sentencing, the same group of people reject it out of hand without ever stating what's wrong with the results and/or the data.

I guess what you all keep forgetting is the United States of America was founded on the premise of white supremacy therefore the original law enforcement agencies were populated by white supremacists who thoroughly believed that black people were inferior to white and that anything and everything done to us, no matter how heinous. was just and as it should be.

It was only a little more than 55 years ago out of the 244+ years that the U.S. has existed that LEGAL racial segregation was the law of the land. So when people say that systemic racism exists in American society I don't see how you can doubt that based on our country's history. And when after they've compiled the relevant data, analyzed it and their reports show that indeed system racism is the root cause of the disparities between whites and blacks in the criminal justice system, why would any intelligent human being immediately reject the results instead of verifying the veracity of the results and data themselves?

I collect extra data when looking these types of situations because it adds more context to the data that can be used for compare & contrast and to begin attempting to quantify the differences in the results.

You & Ray have already pointed out that judges makes decision on things other than the current crime committed. In some cases they use point systems that can add or reduce their sentences, but that should really be the extent of it, in my opinion. Of course there could be exceptions for certain extreme circumstances but even then, the results of applying those rules should be ascertainable prior to them being applied - by anyone. Otherwise racists judges and other members of the criminal justice system have no reason or motivation to be unbiased and will not refrain from continuing to punish black people for being "of African descent", the race designated by American law as inferior.
All we are really saying is that your studies focus on race only. Judges get no joy in throwing people in prison of any race unless it's such a horrible crime that shocked the city, state or country.

Judges realize that after a prison sentence is served, their life will never be the same. They will never be able to own a gun to protect themselves, depending on the state, never be able to vote, they will have a hard time getting a job yet alone a good paying job, and may be turned away trying to rent an apartment. I know as a landlord that I don't rent to felons any longer. I tried it when I first got into the business, and it was an utter failure that cost me a lot of money.

In any case, the judge realizing this is going to give breaks to people who have otherwise lead a pretty law abiding life up to the point of the infraction. He or she doesn't want to see the rest of their lives ruined over one mistake. At the same time, judges can look at a persons record, see the high recidivism rate of prison, and determine the best thing for he, she or society is to keep them behind bars for a long time.
 

JoeB131

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When did I state that? Show me. To be honest, I didn't hear the gun, my tenant did and he's the one that called police. Now, the gunfire may have woken me up, but what I heard was him and her screaming at each other.

BTW what episode of Bewitched did Darin lock out Samantha at 4:00 in the morning, and Samantha took bricks and hurl them at the windows breaking them? When did Darrin ever fire a gun at that time in the morning at Samantha?
Actually, Samantha had supernatural powers, and so did his in-laws who hated him... so that would probably be a bad move on his part.

So now your story is you just HEARD what happened.

You would have never made such a stupid statement if you were ever even around a gun going off. You are a lying dog faced pony solder.
Actually, you said the gun was so soft it didn't wake you up... kind of keep your story straight, buddy.

Your claim is people were promoted because of their race over more qualified blacks. Yet you support unions who do the exact same thing only by union tenure instead of race.
Actually, unions protect seniority... which is a good thing.

Frankly, it was pretty darned good when you could get a lifetime job. Don't get me wrong, "At Will" employment has made my life easier, because I get all sorts of customers who got screwed by bosses... but the the society as a whole, not so much.
 

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All we are really saying is that your studies focus on race only. Judges get no joy in throwing people in prison of any race unless it's such a horrible crime that shocked the city, state or country.

Judges realize that after a prison sentence is served, their life will never be the same. They will never be able to own a gun to protect themselves, depending on the state, never be able to vote, they will have a hard time getting a job yet alone a good paying job, and may be turned away trying to rent an apartment. I know as a landlord that I don't rent to felons any longer. I tried it when I first got into the business, and it was an utter failure that cost me a lot of money.

In any case, the judge realizing this is going to give breaks to people who have otherwise lead a pretty law abiding life up to the point of the infraction. He or she doesn't want to see the rest of their lives ruined over one mistake. At the same time, judges can look at a persons record, see the high recidivism rate of prison, and determine the best thing for he, she or society is to keep them behind bars for a long time.
Wow, Ray, it almost sounds like you realize the Prison Industrial Complex is a BAD thing.

The thing is, most people aren't in prison or get criminal records for violent crimes. Only about 10% of people in prison are there for homicide or sexual assault. The rest are there for drug offenses and property crimes.
 

Mac-7

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Then you should have no problem quoting a single fucking person saying that. Please go ahead.
Guilt-ridden white liberals clearly wanted to show they were not racists when they voted for obama

he made race relations worse by telling lies about white people that created resentment on both sides
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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Sure there was because a package suspected of illegal narcotics were delivered to her home
I thought the news said there were no narcotics found in her home.
At the time they searched it, no there wasn't. However they suspected that he was having drugs delivered to her apartment, and while keeping an eye on the place, that's what they seen. That's why they got the no-knock warrant in the first place.

My contention is that she was not totally blind to what was going on. She knew drugs were being sent to her home, or at the very least, had to be suspicious of it. I don't think she had anything to do with using dope or selling it, but I also think she was not a complete innocent in all this.

A woman is with a guy. He has strange packages delivered to her home instead of his own. When he comes over, he brings a loaded firearm with him. I mean.....come on now.
How else would you carry a firearm unless it's loaded? What would be the point?

Why is it when it comes to black people and guns, the two together is nothing but nefarious? As far someone using her address, criminals get up to all types of crime, that doesn't mean she knew about it or gave permission for him to use her address. More importantly, it doesn't excuse her being killed in the manner in which she was.
As Joe Biden would say: Come on man! Are you some kind of junkie or something??

If I had a GF that was sending packages to me under her name, of course I'd want to know WTF was going on. My first question would be why doesn't she have her packages sent to her house???

If this guy was not involved in nefarious activity, why did he bring a loaded firearm to his GF's house? I'm sure it's not the first time. Was he a CCW holder? Why was his gun so readily available to shoot that quickly even after police announced who they were?

It seems to me he was prepared for trouble from one side or the other.
I'm confused. I thought it was her ex-boyfriend they were investigating for trafficking, not her current boyfriend.
Lawyer: Plea offer tried to link Breonna Taylor to drug ring

Don't you carry a weapon (CCW) and I would hope you're smarter than to carry it unloaded.

Why is it that you carrying a weapon is not suspicious but her boyfriend doing so is nefarious?
To be honest, I don't know if he was her ex or current boyfriend. I dug up a current piece from USA today that describes him as both. At the time of the shooting, they referred to him as her boyfriend. When they got into another situation earlier in January, they described him as her ex-boyfriend. It also said he had a habit of giving her address as where he lived.


Even if I carried a gun to my GF's house for transportation protection, I would likely put the gun in a drawer or something once I got there. I wouldn't have it on the coffee table ready to go unless I was expecting trouble.

It's okay for me to carry a gun because I have a CCW license. It's not okay for him to be carrying a gun because he's a convicted felon and not allowed to even be near guns yet alone carry one.
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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All we are really saying is that your studies focus on race only. Judges get no joy in throwing people in prison of any race unless it's such a horrible crime that shocked the city, state or country.

Judges realize that after a prison sentence is served, their life will never be the same. They will never be able to own a gun to protect themselves, depending on the state, never be able to vote, they will have a hard time getting a job yet alone a good paying job, and may be turned away trying to rent an apartment. I know as a landlord that I don't rent to felons any longer. I tried it when I first got into the business, and it was an utter failure that cost me a lot of money.

In any case, the judge realizing this is going to give breaks to people who have otherwise lead a pretty law abiding life up to the point of the infraction. He or she doesn't want to see the rest of their lives ruined over one mistake. At the same time, judges can look at a persons record, see the high recidivism rate of prison, and determine the best thing for he, she or society is to keep them behind bars for a long time.
Wow, Ray, it almost sounds like you realize the Prison Industrial Complex is a BAD thing.

The thing is, most people aren't in prison or get criminal records for violent crimes. Only about 10% of people in prison are there for homicide or sexual assault. The rest are there for drug offenses and property crimes.
I don't know what kind of crimes has to do with what we were talking about.

Yes, prison is hell for otherwise law abiding productive people. For lowlifes, it's not all that bad. Given the choice, of course they'd choose not to be there, but it certainly isn't a deterrent for them never to go back like it is in many other countries, and this country before we allowed liberal judges to turn prisons into playgrounds.
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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Actually, Samantha had supernatural powers, and so did his in-laws who hated him... so that would probably be a bad move on his part.

So now your story is you just HEARD what happened.
What I seen was them yelling and screaming at each other outside. She jumped into the car and was about to leave when our great police force surrounded the place. I heard him yelling at police that he only shot back once, and yes at the time, I assumed he was talking about a gun. I seen the cops haul him off to jail.

My tenant, the person that called the cops is the one who heard the gunshot. The next day, I seen that lowlife foreign landlord boarding up two windows. So everything my tenants told me was absolutely true, and of course, that foreign piece of trash didn't kick them out either.

Actually, you said the gun was so soft it didn't wake you up... kind of keep your story straight, buddy.
I didn't say that. I said I didn't hear it, but it may have been what woke me up. I know our police here, especially that early in the morning. If the situation has anything to do with guns, they are there in two minutes. From the time I woke up, that's how long it was until the cops arrived.

Actually, unions protect seniority... which is a good thing.

Frankly, it was pretty darned good when you could get a lifetime job. Don't get me wrong, "At Will" employment has made my life easier, because I get all sorts of customers who got screwed by bosses... but the the society as a whole, not so much.
The last company that was union where I worked, the employees were the ones who voted them out because they gave the highest paying position to the most senior union employee, but he had no ability to do the job. The owner had to come out and do his job for him.

They were pissed because I was told he was always dead wood, and would have been fired decades ago if not for the union. That's one of the many ways unions brought businesses down or made them otherwise uncompetitive.

After the union was gone, things got better for the employees. That job was given to another employee with not only seniority, but a good work history. They got rid of two other employees also nothing but a problem for the company and other employees. I knew one of them because she worked in shipping. She stabbed me in the back once as well, so I had no sympathy when I learned she was gone.
 

SavannahMann

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The problem is that Racism has been proven, time and time again. The reality is that the Law and Order folks explain it away.


It was discovered that Blacks were more likely to be pulled over in daylight. Oddly enough, once night fell Blacks were no more likely to be pulled over. Whites drove more but were pulled over less. The argument that Blacks were worse drivers or more likely to speed or drive recklessly does not explain the lower rates of being pulled over at night. Are the Blacks more likely to drive within the law at night?

Blacks were more likely to be searched. Yet, Whites were more likely to have contraband in their cars. Somehow this statistical reality did not change the focus of police searches. The Police continued to search Blacks more despite a lower probability of finding contraband.

It goes on and on. So we have demonstrable proof of Racism in the most common police interaction, the traffic stop. How about the actions of the courts? Blacks normally get stiffer sentences than whites when found guilty. Similar criminal histories does not result in similar sentences. So if you eliminate the nonsense, you are left with Racism.

It goes on and on and on. Yet those who are demanding Law and Order never demand all of the laws. They detest the idea of the Constitution actually demanding that people are given equal treatment and equal opportunity.

So yes, there is systemic racism.
No, I disagree with all of that.

For example, they found that nearly all officers had no idea the color of the driver, before making the traffic stop.

When the officer is watching someone through a radar gun, or laser gun, they have no idea who is driving. All they know is, the car is going too fast.

Moreover, one of the reasons traffic stops tend to decline at night, is because officers are usually dealing with other crime at night, and are less likely to make a traffic stop.

Has nothing to do with them being black or white. All traffic stops for all people, are greatly reduced from about 7 PM to 2 AM. At 2 AM traffic stops pick up again, because officers are very aware of when the bars close, and actively look for intoxicated drivers.

Oddly, the researchers themselves are more honest with their data, than the people who use the data to come up with politically motivated conclusions.

From your link:

"For example, driving behavior and time spent on the road likely differ by race or ethnicity. The racial composition of the local population also may not be representative of those who drive through an area, especially when dealing with stops on highways."​
"But if minorities also happen to carry contraband at higher rates, these higher search rates may stem from appropriate police work."​
"For black drivers, search hit rates are typically in line with those of white drivers, indicating an absence of discrimination."​
"In this hypothetical world, consider a fair police officer who only searches drivers with at least a 10% chance of carrying something illegal — regardless of race. In that situation, the white hit rate would be 75% and the black hit rate would be 50%. The officer used the same standard to search each driver, and so did not discriminate, even though the hit rates differ."​
"For example, if officers suspect more serious criminal activity when searching black and Hispanic drivers compared to white drivers, then lower search thresholds for these groups may be the result of non-discriminatory factors. Our results are just one step in understanding complex police interactions."​

So throughout the research that you yourself posted, over and over and over, the researchers admitted that it is entirely possible that all differences may not be any indication of actual discrimination or racism.

I'll give you a simple one.... real simple example that this research never eluded to.

Attitude.

People with an attitude towards police, are more likely to be searched. Guarantee it.

If you have an entitlement, and all police are racists attitude, an officer is going to be naturally suspicious of that individual, over an individual that says "Yeah, I was speeding. Here's my license."

If the officer says "Put your hands on the steering wheel", and you say "Yes sir" and put your hands on the steering wheel, do you think the officer is more likely, or less likely to be suspicious, than if you yell back "Why should I? Why did you stop me? I have rights!"?

And this is true of all races. If you have some white chick, screaming at the officer, saying "you can't stop me"... guess what that officer is going to do? He's going to stop her, and search her car.

I've seen videos of this. There was one not too long ago, of a older white lady, copping a full on superiority entitlement attitude, and the officer bashed the window, and dragged her out of the car.... and rightly so.

Different groups, tend to have different attitudes towards police.

If only 10% of whites hate police, and 50% of blacks hate police, and then even if the officer pulls over an identical percentage of each group... because of the attitude difference, he is more likely to search one groups cars over another.

That's not racism. That's the natural results of different groups interacting with police differently.
How about some results from the DOJ that are more unequivocal.

Justice Department Releases Findings on the Antelope Valley Stations of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department


The division’s investigation into the Antelope Valley stations findings include:



· African Americans, and to a lesser extent Latinos, are more likely to be stopped and/or searched than whites, even when controlling for factors other than race, such as crime rates;



· The widespread use of unlawful backseat detentions violating the Fourth Amendment and LASD policy;



· A pattern of unreasonable force, including a pattern of the use of force against handcuffed individuals;



· A pattern of intimidation and harassment of African-American housing choice voucher holders by LASD deputies, often in conjunction with HACoLA investigators.



· Inadequate implementation of accountability measures to intervene on unconstitutional conduct has allowed these problems to occur.


Pretty unequivocal. Of course. The results of an actual investigation do not prove systemic racism. The odd thing is these types of results are the norm instead of the exception.

Ferguson Missouri had an investigation.


City after City. The same unconstitutional practices. If it was merely Democratic Cities as alleged by the defenders of the cops. Then the Republican States would put an end to it. But they don’t.

The racism is systemic. The cops are little more than thugs with authority. Look at it this way. If you killed a “made man” of the Mafia your life was forfeit. The same is true of a cop killer. If he is brought in alive it is to face the death penalty. For the rest of us victims not so much. Even in death penalty adverse states Cops make up the special circumstance for consideration of the ultimate punishment.
The racism is systemic. The cops are little more than thugs with authority.

No, you are wrong. About both statements. That's just you being a disgusting judgmental brat.


Honestly I don't trust crap given out by the government. You should just compare your own links. Compare the link you provided before, to the link you provided now.

Notice a difference? Like.... facts? Like.... data? Like.... evidence?

African Americans, and to a lesser extent Latinos, are more likely to be stopped and/or searched than whites, even when controlling for factors other than race, such as crime rates;

That is a statement, devoid of evidence, and fact.

"This is what we found".... ok.... prove it. Provide the evidence. Where are the numbers? Where are the facts? Where is the proof?

"The division reviewed tens of thousands of pages of documents"

Great... where are they? Show them. Show us what they say. Show us the numbers.

Now, let me back up.... I don't know the LAPD. I don't know them. I have no idea if they are good people, or bad people. Now it wouldn't surprise me too much if they are racists and evil, because this is LA, the most left-wing Democrap place in the nation. Democraps are all evil, and it doesn't surprise me that a police force made from a mostly evil population, would end up mostly evil.

That said.....

To claim this all about racism, is difficult to justify. The LAPD at the time, and today, is mostly minorities. Less than 40% of all the sworn police at the LAPD are white. The police chief at the time, was Hispanic.

And most of the rules on how police conduct themselves, are based on county law, which is governed by Democrats for decades on decades.

If what they were doing was so bad, why didn't the Democrats who control the police department, and most of whom are all black, change the laws? Or change how the police department runs?

Ridiculous.

But let us even say for the sake of argument that they are in fact entirely corrupt. A ridiculous claim, but lets even pretend the Federal government, that just happened to... magically after Obama made race part of his campaign, just happen to find there was racism in California... that is in fact true.

Ok. So the few hundred officers in Antelope Valley stations, were racists.

There are just under 1 million officers in the US. Please explain how a finding of racism among a hundred in Antelope Valley stations in California, proves that almost a million others are all racists?

Or are you just what I said you are, a terrible disgusting judgemental prick?
I would argue that the proof is in the acceptance of the names parties. The Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department. The Los Angeles County Housing Authority. The Commissioners of the entire county. They all have Lawyers. They all had access to the detailed report. And they all agreed with the conclusions. Of course it didn’t help that the Sheriff and other senior cops were arrested, tried, and convicted of obstruction of Justice trying to prevent the DOJ from learning anything.

In Ferguson, the other example I gave you. The DOJ also found the Courts were complicit. Now Missouri is a Red State. The Republicans are in control of both State Houses as well as the Governor’s Mansion. Yet these great Republicans. The ones who would never do this if they were in charge. They did not do anything either did they? Odd. Since time after time the blame is left at the feet of Democrats. I have heard of States Rights. I guess this is Cities Rights. When no one can tell them what to do. Or something.

If you really want to know how we got here. I will give you an answer. Dukakis and the learning of wrong lessons. If you doubt that look at the political world today. The need for serious reform in Law Enforcement is so obvious it is the proverbial Whore in Church. Yet anyone who talks about it is soft on crime. Wants criminals running amok and raping your daughters and wives.

Racism runs amok. When Stop and Frisk was being shut down by the Courts Republicans argued with the police that it was necessary and effective. Who cared if it was Constitutional.

In fact the NYPD was cheered when they blasted the Mayor weren’t they? He was soft on crime. Because he thought the Courts were right.

But that wasn’t all he did. He empowered the Citizens Commission to ask questions the Police refused to answer. And issue non binding recommendations. How awful. He must hate cops to expect them to answer claims of misconduct.

If he does nothing he allows the misconduct to continue. If he does anything he hates cops and wants to see them dead. It’s all bullshit. All of it. And you are shoveling the bullshit as fast as you can.
 

JoeB131

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I don't know what kind of crimes has to do with what we were talking about.

Yes, prison is hell for otherwise law abiding productive people. For lowlifes, it's not all that bad. Given the choice, of course they'd choose not to be there, but it certainly isn't a deterrent for them never to go back like it is in many other countries, and this country before we allowed liberal judges to turn prisons into playgrounds.
Translation:

So prison isn't so bad for black folks, but it's hell for white folks.

Tell us again how not racist you are.

What I seen was them yelling and screaming at each other outside. She jumped into the car and was about to leave when our great police force surrounded the place. I heard him yelling at police that he only shot back once, and yes at the time, I assumed he was talking about a gun. I seen the cops haul him off to jail.
So you don't know if there was a gun or not.

This story keeps changing every time you tell it.

My tenant, the person that called the cops is the one who heard the gunshot. The next day, I seen that lowlife foreign landlord boarding up two windows. So everything my tenants told me was absolutely true, and of course, that foreign piece of trash didn't kick them out either.
Tell us again how not racist you are, Ray, that shit never gets old.

I didn't say that. I said I didn't hear it, but it may have been what woke me up. I know our police here, especially that early in the morning. If the situation has anything to do with guns, they are there in two minutes. From the time I woke up, that's how long it was until the cops arrived.
So you didn't hear the gun, but it woke you up, but you know it must have been a gun because you call the cops on the darkies all the time, and they got there really quick.

After the union was gone, things got better for the employees. That job was given to another employee with not only seniority, but a good work history. They got rid of two other employees also nothing but a problem for the company and other employees. I knew one of them because she worked in shipping. She stabbed me in the back once as well, so I had no sympathy when I learned she was gone.
Gee, Ray, one of your co-workers disliked you so much she stabbed you in the back. Wow. I wonder why.

So let's list all the people who Ray Hates .

His neighbors
His coworkers
People who are his customers who won't unload him
The mean old government bureaucrats who took him off the road.
People in the store who buy things he feels they don't deserve like pet food and flowers.
Did I miss anything, Ray?
 

Andylusion

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The police did absolutely nothing wrong, and no one has any legitimate reason to complain about their action, whatsoever.
The majority of your comment is opinion little of which is based on fact, instead it's based on the story they've spun.

If indeed the police did NOTHING wrong, Taylor's family would not have received a 12 million dollar wrongful death settlement from the City of Louisville.
False. You can routinely win "wrongful death" settlements, even in situations where the people in question have already been acquitted of any wrong doing, or when there isn't even enough evidence of criminal action, to justify an indictment.

This is well established everywhere you have people with any knowledge of law.


Because a wrongful death lawsuit is a civil action and not a criminal case, the burden of proof is set lower.

That's not opinion. That's fact.

Moreover, you claimed that I stated opinion, and not fact. Please enlighten me with which statement I made about the case, was not fact.

1. The investigation into Glover showed clear evidence, that he was involved in a drug trafficking ring, and was using Taylor's residence to move packages.

Fact. Not opinion.

2. The police had a legal judge issued search warrant for Taylor's apartment.

Fact. Not opinion.

3. The police legally executed that search warrant in accordance with the law.

Fact. Not opinion.

4. The occupants in Taylor's apartment fired at, and hit and injured a police officer.

Fact. Not opinion.

5. The police fired back, when they were fired upon.

Fact. Not opinion.

6. Taylor was shot because she was standing behind Kenneth Walker, who fired at police.

Fact. Not opinion.

7. Based on the above facts, the police did absolutely nothing wrong in the entire incident according to the law. Which by the way, has been verified by even left-wing lawyers, and pundits.

That is in fact.... the truth. Not opinion.

Which part do you believe is opinion?
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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Translation:

So prison isn't so bad for black folks, but it's hell for white folks.

Tell us again how not racist you are.
So that's what you got out of my statement? :laughing0301:

Dude......really. You have some serious issues you need to address. In the short time we've had discussions, I see it getting much worse all the time.

I said lowlifes don't fear jail, and you took that as code word for black people as if only blacks are in prison, but tell me I'm a racist? :auiqs.jpg:

So you don't know if there was a gun or not.

This story keeps changing every time you tell it.
Yes, I do know it was a gun. That's what he got arrested for. Three of my tenants from two different units heard the gunshot.

Tell us again how not racist you are, Ray, that shit never gets old.
For a person with your hangups, I'm sure it doesn't get old.

So you didn't hear the gun, but it woke you up, but you know it must have been a gun because you call the cops on the darkies all the time, and they got there really quick.
I didn't call the cops, my tenant did. For a guy that claims to write for a living, your comprehension sure sucks.

I was about to call when they came outside a second time and started yelling and screaming at each other again. By the time I was about to get out of bed to get my cell phone, the cops were already there.

Our entire police force does not approach a home with guns drawn for a noise complaint. I have plenty experience with that one.

Gee, Ray, one of your co-workers disliked you so much she stabbed you in the back. Wow. I wonder why.

So let's list all the people who Ray Hates .

His neighbors
His coworkers
People who are his customers who won't unload him
The mean old government bureaucrats who took him off the road.
People in the store who buy things he feels they don't deserve like pet food and flowers.
Did I miss anything, Ray?
Joe, you miss a lot of things in life. I'm a good natured guy, so I hate very few people.
 

Andylusion

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The problem is that Racism has been proven, time and time again. The reality is that the Law and Order folks explain it away.


It was discovered that Blacks were more likely to be pulled over in daylight. Oddly enough, once night fell Blacks were no more likely to be pulled over. Whites drove more but were pulled over less. The argument that Blacks were worse drivers or more likely to speed or drive recklessly does not explain the lower rates of being pulled over at night. Are the Blacks more likely to drive within the law at night?

Blacks were more likely to be searched. Yet, Whites were more likely to have contraband in their cars. Somehow this statistical reality did not change the focus of police searches. The Police continued to search Blacks more despite a lower probability of finding contraband.

It goes on and on. So we have demonstrable proof of Racism in the most common police interaction, the traffic stop. How about the actions of the courts? Blacks normally get stiffer sentences than whites when found guilty. Similar criminal histories does not result in similar sentences. So if you eliminate the nonsense, you are left with Racism.

It goes on and on and on. Yet those who are demanding Law and Order never demand all of the laws. They detest the idea of the Constitution actually demanding that people are given equal treatment and equal opportunity.

So yes, there is systemic racism.
No, I disagree with all of that.

For example, they found that nearly all officers had no idea the color of the driver, before making the traffic stop.

When the officer is watching someone through a radar gun, or laser gun, they have no idea who is driving. All they know is, the car is going too fast.

Moreover, one of the reasons traffic stops tend to decline at night, is because officers are usually dealing with other crime at night, and are less likely to make a traffic stop.

Has nothing to do with them being black or white. All traffic stops for all people, are greatly reduced from about 7 PM to 2 AM. At 2 AM traffic stops pick up again, because officers are very aware of when the bars close, and actively look for intoxicated drivers.

Oddly, the researchers themselves are more honest with their data, than the people who use the data to come up with politically motivated conclusions.

From your link:

"For example, driving behavior and time spent on the road likely differ by race or ethnicity. The racial composition of the local population also may not be representative of those who drive through an area, especially when dealing with stops on highways."​
"But if minorities also happen to carry contraband at higher rates, these higher search rates may stem from appropriate police work."​
"For black drivers, search hit rates are typically in line with those of white drivers, indicating an absence of discrimination."​
"In this hypothetical world, consider a fair police officer who only searches drivers with at least a 10% chance of carrying something illegal — regardless of race. In that situation, the white hit rate would be 75% and the black hit rate would be 50%. The officer used the same standard to search each driver, and so did not discriminate, even though the hit rates differ."​
"For example, if officers suspect more serious criminal activity when searching black and Hispanic drivers compared to white drivers, then lower search thresholds for these groups may be the result of non-discriminatory factors. Our results are just one step in understanding complex police interactions."​

So throughout the research that you yourself posted, over and over and over, the researchers admitted that it is entirely possible that all differences may not be any indication of actual discrimination or racism.

I'll give you a simple one.... real simple example that this research never eluded to.

Attitude.

People with an attitude towards police, are more likely to be searched. Guarantee it.

If you have an entitlement, and all police are racists attitude, an officer is going to be naturally suspicious of that individual, over an individual that says "Yeah, I was speeding. Here's my license."

If the officer says "Put your hands on the steering wheel", and you say "Yes sir" and put your hands on the steering wheel, do you think the officer is more likely, or less likely to be suspicious, than if you yell back "Why should I? Why did you stop me? I have rights!"?

And this is true of all races. If you have some white chick, screaming at the officer, saying "you can't stop me"... guess what that officer is going to do? He's going to stop her, and search her car.

I've seen videos of this. There was one not too long ago, of a older white lady, copping a full on superiority entitlement attitude, and the officer bashed the window, and dragged her out of the car.... and rightly so.

Different groups, tend to have different attitudes towards police.

If only 10% of whites hate police, and 50% of blacks hate police, and then even if the officer pulls over an identical percentage of each group... because of the attitude difference, he is more likely to search one groups cars over another.

That's not racism. That's the natural results of different groups interacting with police differently.
How about some results from the DOJ that are more unequivocal.

Justice Department Releases Findings on the Antelope Valley Stations of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department


The division’s investigation into the Antelope Valley stations findings include:



· African Americans, and to a lesser extent Latinos, are more likely to be stopped and/or searched than whites, even when controlling for factors other than race, such as crime rates;



· The widespread use of unlawful backseat detentions violating the Fourth Amendment and LASD policy;



· A pattern of unreasonable force, including a pattern of the use of force against handcuffed individuals;



· A pattern of intimidation and harassment of African-American housing choice voucher holders by LASD deputies, often in conjunction with HACoLA investigators.



· Inadequate implementation of accountability measures to intervene on unconstitutional conduct has allowed these problems to occur.


Pretty unequivocal. Of course. The results of an actual investigation do not prove systemic racism. The odd thing is these types of results are the norm instead of the exception.

Ferguson Missouri had an investigation.


City after City. The same unconstitutional practices. If it was merely Democratic Cities as alleged by the defenders of the cops. Then the Republican States would put an end to it. But they don’t.

The racism is systemic. The cops are little more than thugs with authority. Look at it this way. If you killed a “made man” of the Mafia your life was forfeit. The same is true of a cop killer. If he is brought in alive it is to face the death penalty. For the rest of us victims not so much. Even in death penalty adverse states Cops make up the special circumstance for consideration of the ultimate punishment.
The racism is systemic. The cops are little more than thugs with authority.

No, you are wrong. About both statements. That's just you being a disgusting judgmental brat.


Honestly I don't trust crap given out by the government. You should just compare your own links. Compare the link you provided before, to the link you provided now.

Notice a difference? Like.... facts? Like.... data? Like.... evidence?

African Americans, and to a lesser extent Latinos, are more likely to be stopped and/or searched than whites, even when controlling for factors other than race, such as crime rates;

That is a statement, devoid of evidence, and fact.

"This is what we found".... ok.... prove it. Provide the evidence. Where are the numbers? Where are the facts? Where is the proof?

"The division reviewed tens of thousands of pages of documents"

Great... where are they? Show them. Show us what they say. Show us the numbers.

Now, let me back up.... I don't know the LAPD. I don't know them. I have no idea if they are good people, or bad people. Now it wouldn't surprise me too much if they are racists and evil, because this is LA, the most left-wing Democrap place in the nation. Democraps are all evil, and it doesn't surprise me that a police force made from a mostly evil population, would end up mostly evil.

That said.....

To claim this all about racism, is difficult to justify. The LAPD at the time, and today, is mostly minorities. Less than 40% of all the sworn police at the LAPD are white. The police chief at the time, was Hispanic.

And most of the rules on how police conduct themselves, are based on county law, which is governed by Democrats for decades on decades.

If what they were doing was so bad, why didn't the Democrats who control the police department, and most of whom are all black, change the laws? Or change how the police department runs?

Ridiculous.

But let us even say for the sake of argument that they are in fact entirely corrupt. A ridiculous claim, but lets even pretend the Federal government, that just happened to... magically after Obama made race part of his campaign, just happen to find there was racism in California... that is in fact true.

Ok. So the few hundred officers in Antelope Valley stations, were racists.

There are just under 1 million officers in the US. Please explain how a finding of racism among a hundred in Antelope Valley stations in California, proves that almost a million others are all racists?

Or are you just what I said you are, a terrible disgusting judgemental prick?
I would argue that the proof is in the acceptance of the names parties. The Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department. The Los Angeles County Housing Authority. The Commissioners of the entire county. They all have Lawyers. They all had access to the detailed report. And they all agreed with the conclusions. Of course it didn’t help that the Sheriff and other senior cops were arrested, tried, and convicted of obstruction of Justice trying to prevent the DOJ from learning anything.

In Ferguson, the other example I gave you. The DOJ also found the Courts were complicit. Now Missouri is a Red State. The Republicans are in control of both State Houses as well as the Governor’s Mansion. Yet these great Republicans. The ones who would never do this if they were in charge. They did not do anything either did they? Odd. Since time after time the blame is left at the feet of Democrats. I have heard of States Rights. I guess this is Cities Rights. When no one can tell them what to do. Or something.

If you really want to know how we got here. I will give you an answer. Dukakis and the learning of wrong lessons. If you doubt that look at the political world today. The need for serious reform in Law Enforcement is so obvious it is the proverbial Whore in Church. Yet anyone who talks about it is soft on crime. Wants criminals running amok and raping your daughters and wives.

Racism runs amok. When Stop and Frisk was being shut down by the Courts Republicans argued with the police that it was necessary and effective. Who cared if it was Constitutional.

In fact the NYPD was cheered when they blasted the Mayor weren’t they? He was soft on crime. Because he thought the Courts were right.

But that wasn’t all he did. He empowered the Citizens Commission to ask questions the Police refused to answer. And issue non binding recommendations. How awful. He must hate cops to expect them to answer claims of misconduct.

If he does nothing he allows the misconduct to continue. If he does anything he hates cops and wants to see them dead. It’s all bullshit. All of it. And you are shoveling the bullshit as fast as you can.
And they all agreed with the conclusions.

So that I would take issue with.

There have been numerous times at my job, where the people who were above me, management or corporate executives, made decisions that I completely disagreed with. But.... I didn't put up an argument, or a fight, because the decision had already been made, I had virtually no say in the matters, and I knew that fighting it would both fail to make any positive changes, and would result in more condemnation on myself or my crew.

We have a phrase in this country "Pick your battles.".

That phrase exists for a reason. Obama had already clearly made race an issue of his 2012 campaign. We already had him saying if he had a son, he would look like that criminal, assaulting, punk Trayvon.

Racism was, and is, the official position of the entire Democrat party.

Do you really think that Democrats, in a Democrat State, are going to fight the Democrat controls Justice Department, right after an election won based on racism? Do you?

You think they would have fought the claims and won?

https://www.amazon.com/Financial-Crisis-Free-Market-Cure/dp/0071806776&tag=ff0d01-20

John Allison who was working at BB&T bank in the late 90s, wrote of his experience dealing with the government. In the late 90s, government regulators showed up, and stated to the banks management, that the banks lending practices were discriminatory.

This, of course, deeply troubled the management of the bank, who quickly agreed to meet with regulators to discuss how they could fix the problem.

After months of meetings.... literally months of meetings, the regulators never provided one single shred of clear evidence showing a problem with their lending practices. The bank reviewed all of their policies, one by one, until all policies had been covered, and not one policy on any aspect of their lending, could the regulators find fault... but still maintained they needed to improve, because their lending practices were discriminatory.

The bank spent months on months, agreeing to change whatever policy was problematic, until they realized the regulators simply wanted to pressure the bank into making loans to people who didn't qualify.

Thankfully something magical happened. There was an election in 2000, and Bush won. In 2000, after the election, the regulators magically disappeared, and nothing about the horribly discriminatory policies was heard of again.

You can read about the entire ordeal, and other fun government interventions in banking that causes problems, in the book, if you actually want to know more.

That said, here's my point. Again, I don't know anything about that police department, but I do know enough about how government politics work, to not be a brainless dupe that says "Oh dur! They said it, and they agreed to it, so it must be true!"

Only an idiot mindlessly accepts what is said by the government, about government. It's just baffling to me, that so many people constantly complain about how politicians lie, and government lies, and government did this and that..... and then when it suits them, take something government says as divine truth.

Of course the police department is not going to fight the Department of Justice. The cost to fighting the charges would be in the hundreds of millions, and it would be far cheaper to just say "yeah yeah whatever. Just tell us what policies you would like to change.".

Just like the bank. The bank didn't fight it. They said, which policy would you like us to change.

The only difference was, the government regulators refused to make specific changes in that case, because if the loans failed, the bank could blame the regulators directly, since they themselves couldn't find any cause.

With a police department, changing policies doesn't cause any harm to the officers. It only causes harm to the public, as crime goes up.


Violent crime had been declining in LA county since 1992.

In 2013, when this judgment was handed down, the crime in LA County was the lowest point since 1992. In 2014, and onward, crime has been increasing throughout the county.

That didn't harm the police to change the policies that reduced crime. It only harmed the public, and ironically mostly the black public, that people like you, and all Democrats, don't give a crap about.

This is why I haven't been all that surprised to find that while crime has dramatically increased, police officers have left LA county and started working outside California, with good clean records.

Meanwhile the people of LA county suffer and are harmed by an out of control criminal element, thanks to lying cop hating bastards, who make up that they are all racists.

In the name of stopping racism, you have actively encouraged policy changes that resulted in thousands on thousands of blacks being harmed by crime. Sounds like a pretty racists position to me, but that's on you. I don't care.
 
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JoeB131

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Dude......really. You have some serious issues you need to address. In the short time we've had discussions, I see it getting much worse all the time.

I said lowlifes don't fear jail, and you took that as code word for black people as if only blacks are in prison, but tell me I'm a racist?
yes, guy, you use all the clever code words, but you aren't fooling anyone.

I didn't call the cops, my tenant did. For a guy that claims to write for a living, your comprehension sure sucks.
You've said you called them in the past, that was my point. Your reading comprehension is fairly poor... no wonder driving in a straight line was the only thing you could do.

Our entire police force does not approach a home with guns drawn for a noise complaint. I have plenty experience with that one.
Again, I'm sure you do. Frankly, I can count on one hand the times I've had to call the cops. Heck, all the time I lived in Cicero, I called them twice. (And Cicero is almost as big a dump as Cleveland.)

Joe, you miss a lot of things in life. I'm a good natured guy, so I hate very few people.
Yet all your posts are complaining about people.
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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yes, guy, you use all the clever code words, but you aren't fooling anyone.
That's right Joe. You have to get up pretty early in the morning to get one past you. :laughing0301:

You've said you called them in the past, that was my point. Your reading comprehension is fairly poor... no wonder driving in a straight line was the only thing you could do.
But we were not talking about the past, we were talking about that exact situation.

Again, I'm sure you do. Frankly, I can count on one hand the times I've had to call the cops. Heck, all the time I lived in Cicero, I called them twice. (And Cicero is almost as big a dump as Cleveland.)
Well you're in luck. If Biden gets in and does what he wants to suburbs, you will be calling them all the time. Think of it, neighbors like this will be living right next door to you!

Yet all your posts are complaining about people.
Complaining about people is not hating them. You complain about a lot of people, it doesn't mean you hate them. Then on the other hand, maybe with you it does.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

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"And when after they've compiled the relevant data, analyzed it and their reports show that indeed system racism is the root cause of the disparities between whites and blacks in the criminal justice system, why would any intelligent human being immediately reject the results instead of verifying the veracity of the results and data themselves?"

I call, Bullshit.

The relevant data show that the racial disparity in America's jails and prisons is FULLY JUSTIFIED by documented criminality in Blacks (and Hispanics). SIX PERCENT (Black males) of the American population is documented to be responsible for 44% of the violent crime. This disproportion can be seen in the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, year after year. That is more than SEVEN TIMES the crime rate that would appear if serious criminal behavior were dispersed randomly throughout the population.
What documented criminality? The FBI's Uniform Crime Statistics are simply a tally of the number of arrests and the race/gender of the offender and they are provided voluntarily by the law enforcement agencies.

In order to get the complete picture of crime in America you would have to add some context to the data and expand on the results.
 

TheHardTruth

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The new theme of the left today is systemic racism. Systemic racism of course means that racism is intrinsic in the system itself. The question is, why is this fathom systemic racism only happening in Democrat strongholds?

We were told that racism would end with the election of Barack Obama. After 8 years, not only were there no improvements, but things (according to the left) got worse.

Under Donald Trump as President, minorities seen record levels of employment for every group, that was until the Wuhan virus. More black businesses were opening up, black Americans seen higher income, and black government dependency on the decline. Prison reform under President Trump. So why is this systemic racism transcending now?

It's to create a political environment. Even though all this so-called racism is taking place in Democrat cities and states, the implication is that it's all happening under Republican leadership, however the feds have little control over what these Democrat cities and states do. President Trump has offered help to these clueless Democrat leaders, but so far, none have accepted his offers.

Systemic racism does exist of course, and has for many years. The idea of bringing in foreigners to do the jobs American minorities could be doing is systematic itself under Democrat leadership. Keeping wages lower for minorities because of these actions the same. The fight against school vouchers, which gave many minorities school choice is certainly systematic. Now the movement is to defund police departments which would have the most negative ramifications on minority communities. Something new to add to this system.

If there is indeed systemic racism, then it's actually happening from the left and not the right.
"The question is, why is this fathom systemic racism only happening in Democrat strongholds? "
The reason is that the Dumb-o-crats NEED to perpetuate there false narative of racism, because without it, they have NOTHING to offer their historic electorate base.
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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The new theme of the left today is systemic racism. Systemic racism of course means that racism is intrinsic in the system itself. The question is, why is this fathom systemic racism only happening in Democrat strongholds?

We were told that racism would end with the election of Barack Obama. After 8 years, not only were there no improvements, but things (according to the left) got worse.

Under Donald Trump as President, minorities seen record levels of employment for every group, that was until the Wuhan virus. More black businesses were opening up, black Americans seen higher income, and black government dependency on the decline. Prison reform under President Trump. So why is this systemic racism transcending now?

It's to create a political environment. Even though all this so-called racism is taking place in Democrat cities and states, the implication is that it's all happening under Republican leadership, however the feds have little control over what these Democrat cities and states do. President Trump has offered help to these clueless Democrat leaders, but so far, none have accepted his offers.

Systemic racism does exist of course, and has for many years. The idea of bringing in foreigners to do the jobs American minorities could be doing is systematic itself under Democrat leadership. Keeping wages lower for minorities because of these actions the same. The fight against school vouchers, which gave many minorities school choice is certainly systematic. Now the movement is to defund police departments which would have the most negative ramifications on minority communities. Something new to add to this system.

If there is indeed systemic racism, then it's actually happening from the left and not the right.
"The question is, why is this fathom systemic racism only happening in Democrat strongholds? "
The reason is that the Dumb-o-crats NEED to perpetuate there false narative of racism, because without it, they have NOTHING to offer their historic electorate base.
When we look at Minneapolis, when we look at Baltimore, when we look at Ferguson, when we look at NYC, they are all Democrat areas. Now if this mysterious systemic racism exists,it does so in Democrat, and most times heavy Democrats areas where you would have expected them to solve these so-called problems many years ago before they even happened.

Now systemic racism is a new talking point used exclusively by the left. So if it's here, why make it a national problem? Why not focus on Democrat areas only, and solve it from ground up?
 

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