Systemical Racism

JoeB131

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
127,044
Reaction score
13,128
Points
2,220
Location
Chicago, Chicago, that Toddling Town
Yeah that's my point exactly.....they know racism is at worst superficial in this country (the occasional N word) , but not denial of service, ect ....nor should it. So they came up with this bs White Privledge, which is part of Critical Race Theory, so they could say even if you aren't someone is..........it's bs......They do it because they do that on the economy.....Polls always show people think they are doing well, but the country isn't and that's do the Dems and media collaborating on showing this shit. I noticed it in the 92 election and now it's happening this year.....
Actually, white privilege is real.

And the economy really is shit right now.

But to the first point, I tell this story often, but it's a great example. I worked for a company for seven years. In 2012, we had three members of my team quit, and the team gave each a going away lunch. Now, guess which one of these three people the General Manager took time out of his busy schedule to attend?

The Asian American lady in her fifties, who had worked for the company for nine years.
The black lady in her late 30's, who worked for the company for 2 years.
The white intern in her 20's, who had worked for the company for three months and wasn't actually an employee.

I don't think this man was racist. I worked with him for seven years and never heard him say anything remotely like that. But being young and pretty and white got you more favor than being a woman of color who had put years of effort in.

The Chinese lady told me once she didn't think the guy liked her. I doubt he gave it that much thought. She was invisible to him.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
63,883
Reaction score
13,625
Points
2,290
More than likely they don't want to know you anyway. Now I know you're BSn us about being in the military. If you don't know how loud a gun is, then it's obvious you never shot one in your life or even been around one.
What does that have to do with you spying on your neighbors... So you finally got your wish and the old HUD Neighbors moved out, and now you've got a new set of black people to hate on.

Your existence is kind of sad. Hating your neighbors, listening to your police scanner all night (can't you afford Cable?) collecting your welfare check. I would almost feel sorry for you if you weren't such an awful person to start with.
You compared me taking notice that a guy shot a gun inside his house to Mrs. Kravits; as if I only knew about it because I had binoculars looking into their window. I have bad news for you fake solder, when a gun goes off, even in daytime, you hear it several houses away. Didn't you ever see people at a firing range on TV? Ever notice how they have ear muffs on to protect their ears?

You phonies eventually show your true colors. You never shot a gun in your life, nor have been anywhere near others shooting guns. You know nothing about them. Otherwise you would have never made a stupid comparison like that. You'd know very well how loud a gun is, especially at that time in the morning.

And what if he killed his wife and I said I didn't bother calling the cops. Then you'd be accusing me of not wanting to help the wife because she was black.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
63,883
Reaction score
13,625
Points
2,290
Sure there was because a package suspected of illegal narcotics were delivered to her home
I thought the news said there were no narcotics found in her home.
At the time they searched it, no there wasn't. However they suspected that he was having drugs delivered to her apartment, and while keeping an eye on the place, that's what they seen. That's why they got the no-knock warrant in the first place.

My contention is that she was not totally blind to what was going on. She knew drugs were being sent to her home, or at the very least, had to be suspicious of it. I don't think she had anything to do with using dope or selling it, but I also think she was not a complete innocent in all this.

A woman is with a guy. He has strange packages delivered to her home instead of his own. When he comes over, he brings a loaded firearm with him. I mean.....come on now.
 

22lcidw

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
14,030
Reaction score
3,836
Points
275
Yeah that's my point exactly.....they know racism is at worst superficial in this country (the occasional N word) , but not denial of service, ect ....nor should it. So they came up with this bs White Privledge, which is part of Critical Race Theory, so they could say even if you aren't someone is..........it's bs......They do it because they do that on the economy.....Polls always show people think they are doing well, but the country isn't and that's do the Dems and media collaborating on showing this shit. I noticed it in the 92 election and now it's happening this year.....
Actually, white privilege is real.

And the economy really is shit right now.

But to the first point, I tell this story often, but it's a great example. I worked for a company for seven years. In 2012, we had three members of my team quit, and the team gave each a going away lunch. Now, guess which one of these three people the General Manager took time out of his busy schedule to attend?

The Asian American lady in her fifties, who had worked for the company for nine years.
The black lady in her late 30's, who worked for the company for 2 years.
The white intern in her 20's, who had worked for the company for three months and wasn't actually an employee.

I don't think this man was racist. I worked with him for seven years and never heard him say anything remotely like that. But being young and pretty and white got you more favor than being a woman of color who had put years of effort in.

The Chinese lady told me once she didn't think the guy liked her. I doubt he gave it that much thought. She was invisible to him.
The fiefdoms are the ones that do that.
 

DBA

Platinum Member
Joined
May 10, 2015
Messages
3,051
Reaction score
2,126
Points
940
The Asian American lady in her fifties, who had worked for the company for nine years.
The black lady in her late 30's, who worked for the company for 2 years.
The white intern in her 20's, who had worked for the company for three months and wasn't actually an employee.

I don't think this man was racist. I worked with him for seven years and never heard him say anything remotely like that. But being young and pretty and white got you more favor than being a woman of color who had put years of effort in.
You said the girls was young, pretty and white but jumped to the conclusion that it is the white part that was the determining factor. Typical. Everything is about race. But hey, using your logic, why is it that so many white football coaches in professional and college hire/recruit so many black players? I mean, if they were truly racist, they would want only players with which they could relate to around, right? Obviously this is not the case and the reason is clear. They want to win, just like a manager wants to "win" by having the best employees, which in turn make him/her look better and to make more money. This is how it really works, but I don't expect feeble minded race baiters to understand.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
63,883
Reaction score
13,625
Points
2,290
The Asian American lady in her fifties, who had worked for the company for nine years.
The black lady in her late 30's, who worked for the company for 2 years.
The white intern in her 20's, who had worked for the company for three months and wasn't actually an employee.

I don't think this man was racist. I worked with him for seven years and never heard him say anything remotely like that. But being young and pretty and white got you more favor than being a woman of color who had put years of effort in.
You said the girls was young, pretty and white but jumped to the conclusion that it is the white part that was the determining factor. Typical. Everything is about race. But hey, using your logic, why is it that so many white football coaches in professional and college hire/recruit so many black players? I mean, if they were truly racist, they would want only players with which they could relate to around, right? Obviously this is not the case and the reason is clear. They want to win, just like a manager wants to "win" by having the best employees, which in turn make him/her look better and to make more money. This is how it really works, but I don't expect feeble minded race baiters to understand.
Race is the only thing he noticed.

Where I worked, it was all white males. In the morning we'd generally get to work early to have BS sessions. We all had our different groups that we gathered in. I got together with 3 other guys.

I had nothing against my other coworkers. They were all nice people, but I didn't have much in common with them as they didn't have anything in common with us. They liked to talk about things like sports, and we talked about politics and social issues. They liked to talk about television shows, and we liked to talk about current events.

We all got along well, helped each other out when needed, but people tend to gravitate to others of their own kind with similar interests. Since I left my job almost a year ago, I still stay in contact with one of my former coworkers from time to time.
 

buckeye45_73

Lakhota's my *****
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
30,429
Reaction score
4,569
Points
1,130
Yeah that's my point exactly.....they know racism is at worst superficial in this country (the occasional N word) , but not denial of service, ect ....nor should it. So they came up with this bs White Privledge, which is part of Critical Race Theory, so they could say even if you aren't someone is..........it's bs......They do it because they do that on the economy.....Polls always show people think they are doing well, but the country isn't and that's do the Dems and media collaborating on showing this shit. I noticed it in the 92 election and now it's happening this year.....
Actually, white privilege is real.

And the economy really is shit right now.

But to the first point, I tell this story often, but it's a great example. I worked for a company for seven years. In 2012, we had three members of my team quit, and the team gave each a going away lunch. Now, guess which one of these three people the General Manager took time out of his busy schedule to attend?

The Asian American lady in her fifties, who had worked for the company for nine years.
The black lady in her late 30's, who worked for the company for 2 years.
The white intern in her 20's, who had worked for the company for three months and wasn't actually an employee.

I don't think this man was racist. I worked with him for seven years and never heard him say anything remotely like that. But being young and pretty and white got you more favor than being a woman of color who had put years of effort in.

The Chinese lady told me once she didn't think the guy liked her. I doubt he gave it that much thought. She was invisible to him.
White privledgeniant real, but white guilt is very very real, funny how they don't resign and give their positions to minorities
 

Andylusion

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
19,695
Reaction score
5,234
Points
290
Location
Central Ohio
About a year later we were drinking in the flats. There was nobody on the streets in downtown that late so he just went through the red light, and we got pulled over. My friend, afraid of getting a DUI was Yes Sir, No sir all the way. He apologized for going through the light and said he'd have never done that if the streets weren't bare empty. The cop seen a beer between my legs and ordered me to dump it out. Yes sir I told him. He asked for my ID and I said no problem, here you go.

The cop told us to be careful because he knows we've been drinking, and no stopping anywhere to get me anymore beer.
Yup. It's nice to be white, isn't it?
You are implying that if that person had been black... which you assumed he was white without evidence... that he would have had something terrible happen.

Not true.

Police treat black people exactly the same.

I had a black lady friend from Somalia, who was driving around town with a 3 months expired drivers license.

A Cop pulled her over for speeding (which she was)... and discovered her license was expired. Interestingly, she was smoking a cigarette, and he asked her to put it out. She flicked it out the window, at which point the officer said she needed to pick it up or he would have to write her a $500 ticket for littering.

So here we have a black lady, with three clear violations of law.

She picked up the cigarette, and he didn't write her a ticket.
He gave her a warning for speeding, but no ticket.
He said she likely didn't know the license was expired, and told her as long as she got it renewed that month, it shouldn't be a problem, and sent her on her way.

Now why is it that this black lady, didn't get it a ticket from the white cop?

It's real simple. She was from Somalia, and didn't have "F*** the police comin' straight from the underground".

Didn't realize that all police are automatically racists. Didn't realize that she was entitled to break laws and have nothing happen. Didn't have an attitude.

Again, no evidence at all of police racism. None. Zero. Everything you have is built on assumptions. That's all you have. That's why without you assuming everything, you can't make a case.

Back when I was in college, I worked at a grocery store, where we had a manager who got pulled over, and his car searched for hours. Completely missed an entire shift at work.

Why did that happen? Because he wanted to be a punk. Dressed like a punk. Drove a punk looking car. Played punk music.

And he honestly wasn't a bad dude.... but he looked it. Gold chains, had the shades on, tinted windows, underride neon lights, playing punk music as loud as possible, and would act like a punk, with his punk friends (who likely were on drugs half of them).

Oh I guess the police are racists against whites! Pulling over an completely innocent law abiding, hard working, white guy!

I remember one day my school teacher, a skinny middle aged white guy, with thinning white hair, came in late to school by an hour. Turned out he was stopped by police. Why was he stopped by police? Well... he was driving... and the car in front of him smashed their breaks, so he had no choice but to mash his breaks, and apparently there was a police officer behind him, and they didn't like that.

They pulled him over, checked all his information, asked for proof of insurance.

Then when everything checked out, and they had no reason to hold them, they told him to be careful when smashing the breaks really hard on the road....

Racist against whites!

See that's the difference. Everyone gets pulled over now and then. Whites get pulled over. Blacks get pulled over. Asians get pulled over. Hispanics get pulled over. Everyone gets pulled over.

The differences is, you *WANT* there to be a narrative that America is evil and racists, and so when a Black gets pulled over, it's magically different than everyone else who also get pulled over. Then.... THEN.... it's system racism!.

No, you are full of crap, as you always are, and as all left-wingers are.
 

Andylusion

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
19,695
Reaction score
5,234
Points
290
Location
Central Ohio
Exactly.

I've had the exact same experience. Exact same. I got pulled over, and was just "Yes, Sir." and when he asked if I knew why I was pulled over, I said "Sir, I was likely going over the speed limit, but I honestly was thinking of something else, so I'm not sure how fast I was going."

He gave me a warning and sent me on my way.

Now sometimes I've gotten a ticket, and honestly... rightly so. I've never been given a ticket where did absolutely nothing wrong. Maybe... maybe one time that I thought it was a bit lame of a ticket (changed lanes without using a turn signal), but even then... it's still the law, and the officer is still just doing what society pays him to do.

And I know that if I had an attitude with that officer, that ticket would not have been just $50 for changing lanes without a turn signal. It would have been $150 for something else.

Everyone should know this. Don't argue with officers. Act respectful.

What really irritates me, is that when you hear these morons on TV with BLM.... what do you hear them say? I hear them say "We want respect!".... well.... step one to being treated with respect, is to treat others with respect. They treat officers with utter contempt, and then whine they are not being treated with respect.
I used to be an avid fan of the long running show COPS. There was definitely a difference between many of the interactions between police and suspects when it comes to race, but it was not instigated by the police.

In well over half the cases, black suspects try to run away from the police, and of course, they have to chase them. When caught, they fight with the cops. Then they lie about everything. The cop asks about the gun they found along the path they were running. The black suspect denies it was his, even though the cop seen him throw it there.

White suspects were kind of boring. A cop searches the car and finds dope. The white suspect admits it's his or hers. They are honest in saying they've been hooked for X amount of years. When the cop puts the cuffs on, they just comply by putting their hands behind their back. They are calm and show the officer some respect.

I had some new HUD neighbors move in a few weeks ago. They are black. Last week, they got into a fight because she came home 4:00 in the morning since they don't work. He locked her out, so she broke the kitchen and door windows in the house. When he finally let her in, fighting ensued. Then he took a gun and shot at her.

The cops got here and of course knew a shooting took place. With their guns drawn, the officer was screaming at him to put his hands up and don't move. So what did he do? He put his hands up, then quickly put them back down towards his pockets. The officer screamed again. When the black guy put his hands back up, that cop slammed him into the side of the house he was so pissed off.
Oh yes, routinely there was a difference in how they reacted.

I remember, there was a specific episode where, there was a white guy, they suspected of doing something illegal. They told him to stay there, and wait. He stayed right there. They found the drugs, and put cuffs on him, and put him in the car.

In a completely different episode, there was a black guy, they suspected of dealing drugs too. He started acting funny, and office said not to do anything because they would catch him.

The dude ran. Then a few minutes later, the cameraman catches up to the officer and the criminal, and he had apparently hurt himself pretty badly when running.

"Police brutality! Racism! The White guy didn't get hurt!"

Yeah..... no... more like the white guy followed the lawful orders of the officers, and thus nothing bad happen to him. The other guy refused to obey the orders of the officers, and got horribly injured, and that's his own fault.

This is not hard to figure out.
 

Andylusion

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
19,695
Reaction score
5,234
Points
290
Location
Central Ohio
More than likely they don't want to know you anyway. Now I know you're BSn us about being in the military. If you don't know how loud a gun is, then it's obvious you never shot one in your life or even been around one.
What does that have to do with you spying on your neighbors... So you finally got your wish and the old HUD Neighbors moved out, and now you've got a new set of black people to hate on.

Your existence is kind of sad. Hating your neighbors, listening to your police scanner all night (can't you afford Cable?) collecting your welfare check. I would almost feel sorry for you if you weren't such an awful person to start with.
Oddly, everything you said, is pretty much how you portray yourself on this forum.
 

Andylusion

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
19,695
Reaction score
5,234
Points
290
Location
Central Ohio
Sure there was because a package suspected of illegal narcotics were delivered to her home
I thought the news said there were no narcotics found in her home.
That doesn't change the fact that this is what they suspected. Her "ex-boyfriend" was well known to run a drug ring. My understanding is that they had recorded phone conversations between Breonna and Glover.

Glover has already been arrested, and we know he was engaged in running a drug ring. Additionally, he was using Breonna's house as his residence, and having his mail delivered there. Further, we know he picked up packages from her house, and delivered them to a known drug house.

This is why you should teach your daughters, and son's by the way.... that when they find someone who is involved in illegal activity, that they need to cut off all contact with them. You hang with criminals, and you'll end up being hanged with criminals.

Doesn't matter what the law says.... if you hang out with criminals, you'll end up being harmed by that, and Breonna was simply a victim of her own choices not to disassociate with criminals.

The warrant was legal, and proper. The execution of the search was legal and proper.

They shot at police officers, and police fired back, and Breonna was killed.

If anyone anywhere should be hated, it should be the drug dealing, law violating ex-boyfriend, who got Breonna killed.
 

Andylusion

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
19,695
Reaction score
5,234
Points
290
Location
Central Ohio
Yeah that's my point exactly.....they know racism is at worst superficial in this country (the occasional N word) , but not denial of service, ect ....nor should it. So they came up with this bs White Privledge, which is part of Critical Race Theory, so they could say even if you aren't someone is..........it's bs......They do it because they do that on the economy.....Polls always show people think they are doing well, but the country isn't and that's do the Dems and media collaborating on showing this shit. I noticed it in the 92 election and now it's happening this year.....
Actually, white privilege is real.

And the economy really is shit right now.

But to the first point, I tell this story often, but it's a great example. I worked for a company for seven years. In 2012, we had three members of my team quit, and the team gave each a going away lunch. Now, guess which one of these three people the General Manager took time out of his busy schedule to attend?

The Asian American lady in her fifties, who had worked for the company for nine years.
The black lady in her late 30's, who worked for the company for 2 years.
The white intern in her 20's, who had worked for the company for three months and wasn't actually an employee.

I don't think this man was racist. I worked with him for seven years and never heard him say anything remotely like that. But being young and pretty and white got you more favor than being a woman of color who had put years of effort in.

The Chinese lady told me once she didn't think the guy liked her. I doubt he gave it that much thought. She was invisible to him.
No, it isn't real. No, the economy is not terrible right now. Not as good as it was last years, but not nearly as bad as under Obama, not by a long shot.

The Chinese lady told me once she didn't think the guy liked her. I doubt he gave it that much thought. She was invisible to him.


Well yeah.

That's normal in all societies. The people you most 'click' with, are the ones that you can identify with, and those people, you are more likely to relate with when they leave.

Here's another side that I have personally witnessed. What if the reason he generally avoided those people, is specifically because he was worried about being accused of being racist?

That's actually a real thing. You don't want to be around those people who you think could be looking for an excuse to read you the wrong way, and claim you are being racist.

Is it possible that he simply related more to the white intern, than the other two?

I know for myself, that I have avoided some black people, like they were diseased, and other black people I helped them move to different apartment.

It's not because I am racists against some, and magically not racists to others.

It's because I related to those I hanged out with, and I simply didn't relate at all to some others.

It's not because some are magically invisible. It's because some have an attitude, and some don't. Some are looking for ways to be offended, and some are not.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
63,883
Reaction score
13,625
Points
2,290
Exactly.

I've had the exact same experience. Exact same. I got pulled over, and was just "Yes, Sir." and when he asked if I knew why I was pulled over, I said "Sir, I was likely going over the speed limit, but I honestly was thinking of something else, so I'm not sure how fast I was going."

He gave me a warning and sent me on my way.

Now sometimes I've gotten a ticket, and honestly... rightly so. I've never been given a ticket where did absolutely nothing wrong. Maybe... maybe one time that I thought it was a bit lame of a ticket (changed lanes without using a turn signal), but even then... it's still the law, and the officer is still just doing what society pays him to do.

And I know that if I had an attitude with that officer, that ticket would not have been just $50 for changing lanes without a turn signal. It would have been $150 for something else.

Everyone should know this. Don't argue with officers. Act respectful.

What really irritates me, is that when you hear these morons on TV with BLM.... what do you hear them say? I hear them say "We want respect!".... well.... step one to being treated with respect, is to treat others with respect. They treat officers with utter contempt, and then whine they are not being treated with respect.
I used to be an avid fan of the long running show COPS. There was definitely a difference between many of the interactions between police and suspects when it comes to race, but it was not instigated by the police.

In well over half the cases, black suspects try to run away from the police, and of course, they have to chase them. When caught, they fight with the cops. Then they lie about everything. The cop asks about the gun they found along the path they were running. The black suspect denies it was his, even though the cop seen him throw it there.

White suspects were kind of boring. A cop searches the car and finds dope. The white suspect admits it's his or hers. They are honest in saying they've been hooked for X amount of years. When the cop puts the cuffs on, they just comply by putting their hands behind their back. They are calm and show the officer some respect.

I had some new HUD neighbors move in a few weeks ago. They are black. Last week, they got into a fight because she came home 4:00 in the morning since they don't work. He locked her out, so she broke the kitchen and door windows in the house. When he finally let her in, fighting ensued. Then he took a gun and shot at her.

The cops got here and of course knew a shooting took place. With their guns drawn, the officer was screaming at him to put his hands up and don't move. So what did he do? He put his hands up, then quickly put them back down towards his pockets. The officer screamed again. When the black guy put his hands back up, that cop slammed him into the side of the house he was so pissed off.
Oh yes, routinely there was a difference in how they reacted.

I remember, there was a specific episode where, there was a white guy, they suspected of doing something illegal. They told him to stay there, and wait. He stayed right there. They found the drugs, and put cuffs on him, and put him in the car.

In a completely different episode, there was a black guy, they suspected of dealing drugs too. He started acting funny, and office said not to do anything because they would catch him.

The dude ran. Then a few minutes later, the cameraman catches up to the officer and the criminal, and he had apparently hurt himself pretty badly when running.

"Police brutality! Racism! The White guy didn't get hurt!"

Yeah..... no... more like the white guy followed the lawful orders of the officers, and thus nothing bad happen to him. The other guy refused to obey the orders of the officers, and got horribly injured, and that's his own fault.

This is not hard to figure out.
We had another shooting last night at 6:45 pm. After I heard the shots I looked out the window, and a blue car came across the street, over a curb into a parking lot and rammed into the guy in the gray car. The blue car took off out of my view, and the gray car went the same way. I seen the gray car stop and another neighbor told me the lowlifes in the blue car bailed out and ran on foot. So the lowlife in the gray car took the blue car and took off.

He parked on the side street, cut through some yards, and went back to the scene of the crime acting like he was a nosy pedestrian. Well, the neighbors identified him as the guy shooting at the blue car. The cops told him to put his hands behind his back, and of course, he fought with them. I didn't see all that, but my neighbor told me it took four cops to hold him down to get the cuffs on him.

I told my tenant I was kind of shocked because from the window, he didn't look like that big of a guy. My tenant concurred. He said the guy was his height and weight, and he's a short skinny guy. I don't know what made him do it, but when he seen what was going on, he ran to the guy in the gray car to try and stop him.

Now, nobody got shot or killed, but when this black guy goes to court, the judge is going to look what happened, how he fought with the police, and have no mercy on sentencing more than likely. All I could conclude is both cars were stolen since they both bailed out figuring the cops won't figure out who they were.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
4,327
Reaction score
1,634
Points
325
Location
The Beautiful Pacific Northwest
I'm pretty sure they're not supposed to be doing that and this is exactly how biases, bigotry and prejudice creeps into sentencing.

I attended a sentencing hearing once and had to sit through a couple of other cases before the one I was interested in was heard however I remember being impressed that each time the judge explained his procedure for arriving at the sentence he did. He had a little book in which he looked up the min/max allowable sentence, then read some other documents perhaps provided by the prosecutor/defense which indicated points earned or taken away for certain activities that the defendant had participated in both good and bad. Because he was verbalizing the process, it was all recorded by the court reporter and therefore can be substantiated.

I see charging, convictions and sentencing as a logic tree, a series of IF-THEN-ELSE statements. Any activity that takes a person down one branch of the tree by definition precludes them from arriving at the end of a different branch. Unless there is evidence introduced at trial that was previously unknowable, a person should be able to determine with a fair amount of accuracy the direction and conclusion where the case will likely terminate. It shouldn't be subjective and anyone who can't solve simple logic problems and is unable to demonstrate their ability to do so and arrive at the correct conclusion, shouldn't be seated as a juror in my opinion.
The reason we have judges is to judge. If everybody got the exact same sentence for the exact same crime, we wouldn't need judges. Just go to the computer, type in the charge, and it prints out the sentence.
Not in the sense that you mean. There is not supposed to be even the perception of bias in their behavior or how they carry out their duties, and to be honest, I'd much prefer an algorithm to determine violations of the law and appropriate sentencing, at least as the first step, with a judge doing a final review. Let's face it, if those working within the criminal justice system believe that black people are involved in more crime than white people, even though it's not true, then they will sentence accordingly and you end up with a vicious never ending cycle of a self-fulfilling prophesy. They end up sentencing black people more harshly than whites because of their perception that black people are just more criminally inclined and once you're tagged this way,, all subsequent actions are influenced by the initial determination - whether it's true or not.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
4,327
Reaction score
1,634
Points
325
Location
The Beautiful Pacific Northwest
Sure there was because a package suspected of illegal narcotics were delivered to her home
I thought the news said there were no narcotics found in her home.
At the time they searched it, no there wasn't. However they suspected that he was having drugs delivered to her apartment, and while keeping an eye on the place, that's what they seen. That's why they got the no-knock warrant in the first place.

My contention is that she was not totally blind to what was going on. She knew drugs were being sent to her home, or at the very least, had to be suspicious of it. I don't think she had anything to do with using dope or selling it, but I also think she was not a complete innocent in all this.

A woman is with a guy. He has strange packages delivered to her home instead of his own. When he comes over, he brings a loaded firearm with him. I mean.....come on now.
How else would you carry a firearm unless it's loaded? What would be the point?

Why is it when it comes to black people and guns, the two together is nothing but nefarious? As far someone using her address, criminals get up to all types of crime, that doesn't mean she knew about it or gave permission for him to use her address. More importantly, it doesn't excuse her being killed in the manner in which she was.
 

SavannahMann

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
5,399
Reaction score
1,464
Points
255
The problem is that Racism has been proven, time and time again. The reality is that the Law and Order folks explain it away.


It was discovered that Blacks were more likely to be pulled over in daylight. Oddly enough, once night fell Blacks were no more likely to be pulled over. Whites drove more but were pulled over less. The argument that Blacks were worse drivers or more likely to speed or drive recklessly does not explain the lower rates of being pulled over at night. Are the Blacks more likely to drive within the law at night?

Blacks were more likely to be searched. Yet, Whites were more likely to have contraband in their cars. Somehow this statistical reality did not change the focus of police searches. The Police continued to search Blacks more despite a lower probability of finding contraband.

It goes on and on. So we have demonstrable proof of Racism in the most common police interaction, the traffic stop. How about the actions of the courts? Blacks normally get stiffer sentences than whites when found guilty. Similar criminal histories does not result in similar sentences. So if you eliminate the nonsense, you are left with Racism.

It goes on and on and on. Yet those who are demanding Law and Order never demand all of the laws. They detest the idea of the Constitution actually demanding that people are given equal treatment and equal opportunity.

So yes, there is systemic racism.
No, I disagree with all of that.

For example, they found that nearly all officers had no idea the color of the driver, before making the traffic stop.

When the officer is watching someone through a radar gun, or laser gun, they have no idea who is driving. All they know is, the car is going too fast.

Moreover, one of the reasons traffic stops tend to decline at night, is because officers are usually dealing with other crime at night, and are less likely to make a traffic stop.

Has nothing to do with them being black or white. All traffic stops for all people, are greatly reduced from about 7 PM to 2 AM. At 2 AM traffic stops pick up again, because officers are very aware of when the bars close, and actively look for intoxicated drivers.

Oddly, the researchers themselves are more honest with their data, than the people who use the data to come up with politically motivated conclusions.

From your link:

"For example, driving behavior and time spent on the road likely differ by race or ethnicity. The racial composition of the local population also may not be representative of those who drive through an area, especially when dealing with stops on highways."​
"But if minorities also happen to carry contraband at higher rates, these higher search rates may stem from appropriate police work."​
"For black drivers, search hit rates are typically in line with those of white drivers, indicating an absence of discrimination."​
"In this hypothetical world, consider a fair police officer who only searches drivers with at least a 10% chance of carrying something illegal — regardless of race. In that situation, the white hit rate would be 75% and the black hit rate would be 50%. The officer used the same standard to search each driver, and so did not discriminate, even though the hit rates differ."​
"For example, if officers suspect more serious criminal activity when searching black and Hispanic drivers compared to white drivers, then lower search thresholds for these groups may be the result of non-discriminatory factors. Our results are just one step in understanding complex police interactions."​

So throughout the research that you yourself posted, over and over and over, the researchers admitted that it is entirely possible that all differences may not be any indication of actual discrimination or racism.

I'll give you a simple one.... real simple example that this research never eluded to.

Attitude.

People with an attitude towards police, are more likely to be searched. Guarantee it.

If you have an entitlement, and all police are racists attitude, an officer is going to be naturally suspicious of that individual, over an individual that says "Yeah, I was speeding. Here's my license."

If the officer says "Put your hands on the steering wheel", and you say "Yes sir" and put your hands on the steering wheel, do you think the officer is more likely, or less likely to be suspicious, than if you yell back "Why should I? Why did you stop me? I have rights!"?

And this is true of all races. If you have some white chick, screaming at the officer, saying "you can't stop me"... guess what that officer is going to do? He's going to stop her, and search her car.

I've seen videos of this. There was one not too long ago, of a older white lady, copping a full on superiority entitlement attitude, and the officer bashed the window, and dragged her out of the car.... and rightly so.

Different groups, tend to have different attitudes towards police.

If only 10% of whites hate police, and 50% of blacks hate police, and then even if the officer pulls over an identical percentage of each group... because of the attitude difference, he is more likely to search one groups cars over another.

That's not racism. That's the natural results of different groups interacting with police differently.
How about some results from the DOJ that are more unequivocal.

Justice Department Releases Findings on the Antelope Valley Stations of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department


The division’s investigation into the Antelope Valley stations findings include:



· African Americans, and to a lesser extent Latinos, are more likely to be stopped and/or searched than whites, even when controlling for factors other than race, such as crime rates;



· The widespread use of unlawful backseat detentions violating the Fourth Amendment and LASD policy;



· A pattern of unreasonable force, including a pattern of the use of force against handcuffed individuals;



· A pattern of intimidation and harassment of African-American housing choice voucher holders by LASD deputies, often in conjunction with HACoLA investigators.



· Inadequate implementation of accountability measures to intervene on unconstitutional conduct has allowed these problems to occur.


Pretty unequivocal. Of course. The results of an actual investigation do not prove systemic racism. The odd thing is these types of results are the norm instead of the exception.

Ferguson Missouri had an investigation.


City after City. The same unconstitutional practices. If it was merely Democratic Cities as alleged by the defenders of the cops. Then the Republican States would put an end to it. But they don’t.

The racism is systemic. The cops are little more than thugs with authority. Look at it this way. If you killed a “made man” of the Mafia your life was forfeit. The same is true of a cop killer. If he is brought in alive it is to face the death penalty. For the rest of us victims not so much. Even in death penalty adverse states Cops make up the special circumstance for consideration of the ultimate punishment.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
63,883
Reaction score
13,625
Points
2,290
Sure there was because a package suspected of illegal narcotics were delivered to her home
I thought the news said there were no narcotics found in her home.
At the time they searched it, no there wasn't. However they suspected that he was having drugs delivered to her apartment, and while keeping an eye on the place, that's what they seen. That's why they got the no-knock warrant in the first place.

My contention is that she was not totally blind to what was going on. She knew drugs were being sent to her home, or at the very least, had to be suspicious of it. I don't think she had anything to do with using dope or selling it, but I also think she was not a complete innocent in all this.

A woman is with a guy. He has strange packages delivered to her home instead of his own. When he comes over, he brings a loaded firearm with him. I mean.....come on now.
How else would you carry a firearm unless it's loaded? What would be the point?

Why is it when it comes to black people and guns, the two together is nothing but nefarious? As far someone using her address, criminals get up to all types of crime, that doesn't mean she knew about it or gave permission for him to use her address. More importantly, it doesn't excuse her being killed in the manner in which she was.
As Joe Biden would say: Come on man! Are you some kind of junkie or something??

If I had a GF that was sending packages to me under her name, of course I'd want to know WTF was going on. My first question would be why doesn't she have her packages sent to her house???

If this guy was not involved in nefarious activity, why did he bring a loaded firearm to his GF's house? I'm sure it's not the first time. Was he a CCW holder? Why was his gun so readily available to shoot that quickly even after police announced who they were?

It seems to me he was prepared for trouble from one side or the other.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
63,883
Reaction score
13,625
Points
2,290
Not in the sense that you mean. There is not supposed to be even the perception of bias in their behavior or how they carry out their duties, and to be honest, I'd much prefer an algorithm to determine violations of the law and appropriate sentencing, at least as the first step, with a judge doing a final review. Let's face it, if those working within the criminal justice system believe that black people are involved in more crime than white people, even though it's not true, then they will sentence accordingly and you end up with a vicious never ending cycle of a self-fulfilling prophesy. They end up sentencing black people more harshly than whites because of their perception that black people are just more criminally inclined and once you're tagged this way,, all subsequent actions are influenced by the initial determination - whether it's true or not.
Judges sentence people based on a lot of things besides the crime. They review the charged persons criminal record. They talk with police about the criminals conduct during the arrest. They read of how the suspect conducted themselves during booking and even in jail. Judges watch the accused of how they act in court; how they respect or disrespect the judge and process.

A person who reveals his or her disregard of our laws, our judicial process, our authorities are likely to get harsher sentences than somebody that respects the court, dresses appropriately, shows remorse, and perhaps has no criminal record at all. They simply made one mistake in their life. That's a far cry from those who do it constantly.

But on a personal note: since this discussion comes up frequently, I asked a friend of mine who works in the court system in downtown Cleveland about his experiences. He told me no such study was ever done, but in his personal opinion, he thinks that some blacks do get harsher sentences. He also included that those sentences he witnessed were given by other black judges.

That makes sense too. If I as a white judge who had angst against black people or society, the most damage I could do for that black society is to give lenient sentences to black offenders so they can go back into their community to further cause harm. On the other hand, if I'm a black judge who lives in that community, and if not, still have family and friends there, the best thing I could do for them is to put troublemakers away for as long as possible.
 

Andylusion

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
19,695
Reaction score
5,234
Points
290
Location
Central Ohio
The problem is that Racism has been proven, time and time again. The reality is that the Law and Order folks explain it away.


It was discovered that Blacks were more likely to be pulled over in daylight. Oddly enough, once night fell Blacks were no more likely to be pulled over. Whites drove more but were pulled over less. The argument that Blacks were worse drivers or more likely to speed or drive recklessly does not explain the lower rates of being pulled over at night. Are the Blacks more likely to drive within the law at night?

Blacks were more likely to be searched. Yet, Whites were more likely to have contraband in their cars. Somehow this statistical reality did not change the focus of police searches. The Police continued to search Blacks more despite a lower probability of finding contraband.

It goes on and on. So we have demonstrable proof of Racism in the most common police interaction, the traffic stop. How about the actions of the courts? Blacks normally get stiffer sentences than whites when found guilty. Similar criminal histories does not result in similar sentences. So if you eliminate the nonsense, you are left with Racism.

It goes on and on and on. Yet those who are demanding Law and Order never demand all of the laws. They detest the idea of the Constitution actually demanding that people are given equal treatment and equal opportunity.

So yes, there is systemic racism.
No, I disagree with all of that.

For example, they found that nearly all officers had no idea the color of the driver, before making the traffic stop.

When the officer is watching someone through a radar gun, or laser gun, they have no idea who is driving. All they know is, the car is going too fast.

Moreover, one of the reasons traffic stops tend to decline at night, is because officers are usually dealing with other crime at night, and are less likely to make a traffic stop.

Has nothing to do with them being black or white. All traffic stops for all people, are greatly reduced from about 7 PM to 2 AM. At 2 AM traffic stops pick up again, because officers are very aware of when the bars close, and actively look for intoxicated drivers.

Oddly, the researchers themselves are more honest with their data, than the people who use the data to come up with politically motivated conclusions.

From your link:

"For example, driving behavior and time spent on the road likely differ by race or ethnicity. The racial composition of the local population also may not be representative of those who drive through an area, especially when dealing with stops on highways."​
"But if minorities also happen to carry contraband at higher rates, these higher search rates may stem from appropriate police work."​
"For black drivers, search hit rates are typically in line with those of white drivers, indicating an absence of discrimination."​
"In this hypothetical world, consider a fair police officer who only searches drivers with at least a 10% chance of carrying something illegal — regardless of race. In that situation, the white hit rate would be 75% and the black hit rate would be 50%. The officer used the same standard to search each driver, and so did not discriminate, even though the hit rates differ."​
"For example, if officers suspect more serious criminal activity when searching black and Hispanic drivers compared to white drivers, then lower search thresholds for these groups may be the result of non-discriminatory factors. Our results are just one step in understanding complex police interactions."​

So throughout the research that you yourself posted, over and over and over, the researchers admitted that it is entirely possible that all differences may not be any indication of actual discrimination or racism.

I'll give you a simple one.... real simple example that this research never eluded to.

Attitude.

People with an attitude towards police, are more likely to be searched. Guarantee it.

If you have an entitlement, and all police are racists attitude, an officer is going to be naturally suspicious of that individual, over an individual that says "Yeah, I was speeding. Here's my license."

If the officer says "Put your hands on the steering wheel", and you say "Yes sir" and put your hands on the steering wheel, do you think the officer is more likely, or less likely to be suspicious, than if you yell back "Why should I? Why did you stop me? I have rights!"?

And this is true of all races. If you have some white chick, screaming at the officer, saying "you can't stop me"... guess what that officer is going to do? He's going to stop her, and search her car.

I've seen videos of this. There was one not too long ago, of a older white lady, copping a full on superiority entitlement attitude, and the officer bashed the window, and dragged her out of the car.... and rightly so.

Different groups, tend to have different attitudes towards police.

If only 10% of whites hate police, and 50% of blacks hate police, and then even if the officer pulls over an identical percentage of each group... because of the attitude difference, he is more likely to search one groups cars over another.

That's not racism. That's the natural results of different groups interacting with police differently.
How about some results from the DOJ that are more unequivocal.

Justice Department Releases Findings on the Antelope Valley Stations of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department


The division’s investigation into the Antelope Valley stations findings include:



· African Americans, and to a lesser extent Latinos, are more likely to be stopped and/or searched than whites, even when controlling for factors other than race, such as crime rates;



· The widespread use of unlawful backseat detentions violating the Fourth Amendment and LASD policy;



· A pattern of unreasonable force, including a pattern of the use of force against handcuffed individuals;



· A pattern of intimidation and harassment of African-American housing choice voucher holders by LASD deputies, often in conjunction with HACoLA investigators.



· Inadequate implementation of accountability measures to intervene on unconstitutional conduct has allowed these problems to occur.


Pretty unequivocal. Of course. The results of an actual investigation do not prove systemic racism. The odd thing is these types of results are the norm instead of the exception.

Ferguson Missouri had an investigation.


City after City. The same unconstitutional practices. If it was merely Democratic Cities as alleged by the defenders of the cops. Then the Republican States would put an end to it. But they don’t.

The racism is systemic. The cops are little more than thugs with authority. Look at it this way. If you killed a “made man” of the Mafia your life was forfeit. The same is true of a cop killer. If he is brought in alive it is to face the death penalty. For the rest of us victims not so much. Even in death penalty adverse states Cops make up the special circumstance for consideration of the ultimate punishment.
The racism is systemic. The cops are little more than thugs with authority.

No, you are wrong. About both statements. That's just you being a disgusting judgmental brat.


Honestly I don't trust crap given out by the government. You should just compare your own links. Compare the link you provided before, to the link you provided now.

Notice a difference? Like.... facts? Like.... data? Like.... evidence?

African Americans, and to a lesser extent Latinos, are more likely to be stopped and/or searched than whites, even when controlling for factors other than race, such as crime rates;


That is a statement, devoid of evidence, and fact.

"This is what we found".... ok.... prove it. Provide the evidence. Where are the numbers? Where are the facts? Where is the proof?

"The division reviewed tens of thousands of pages of documents"

Great... where are they? Show them. Show us what they say. Show us the numbers.

Now, let me back up.... I don't know the LAPD. I don't know them. I have no idea if they are good people, or bad people. Now it wouldn't surprise me too much if they are racists and evil, because this is LA, the most left-wing Democrap place in the nation. Democraps are all evil, and it doesn't surprise me that a police force made from a mostly evil population, would end up mostly evil.

That said.....

To claim this all about racism, is difficult to justify. The LAPD at the time, and today, is mostly minorities. Less than 40% of all the sworn police at the LAPD are white. The police chief at the time, was Hispanic.

And most of the rules on how police conduct themselves, are based on county law, which is governed by Democrats for decades on decades.

If what they were doing was so bad, why didn't the Democrats who control the police department, and most of whom are all black, change the laws? Or change how the police department runs?

Ridiculous.

But let us even say for the sake of argument that they are in fact entirely corrupt. A ridiculous claim, but lets even pretend the Federal government, that just happened to... magically after Obama made race part of his campaign, just happen to find there was racism in California... that is in fact true.

Ok. So the few hundred officers in Antelope Valley stations, were racists.

There are just under 1 million officers in the US. Please explain how a finding of racism among a hundred in Antelope Valley stations in California, proves that almost a million others are all racists?

Or are you just what I said you are, a terrible disgusting judgemental prick?
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top