Subjects or citizens?????

[AtlantaWalter]

With the Federal government's ever increasing tax burden upon citizens, as it tries to be all things to all people, and the increasing Federal laws which supplant those of the states and state's rights, which we haven't seen in many decades, does the following quotation seem applicable to us at the present time?

"...this state is compelled today, for the sake of its' own existence, to amputate increasingly the sovereignty rights of the individual (states). For while squeezing the last drop of blood out of its' citizens by its' policy of financial extortion, it must inevitably also deprive them of their last rights..."

It seems to me that the federal government has somewhere along the line forgotten that it is supposed to be the servant of the people and not the master. The complacency of the average citizen has allowed the federal government to obtain powers that were meant to be wielded by the individual states and has become an ever increasing behemoth that, not only has a life of its' own, but seems to exist merely for the sake of its' own existence and growth, regardless of its' effectiveness or lack thereof.

Taking into account the fact that the United States has grown to a size, both in population and physical boundary, that the Founding Fathers would never have even imagined and that the many, many societal changes that have taken place in the last 200+ years, will the federal government continue to grow until it itself is the reason for our existence instead of the reverse?

Will it continue to erode our individual rights as it attempts to insure "political correctness" for every little oppressed/wronged group that comes along?
Will it continue to try and be the world's big brother and waste our tax dollars, time, and the lives of our armed forces on problems that have existed for centuries in other countries and will continue to exist long after the U.S. is no longer the greatest nation on Earth?

We have allowed "it" to tell us where we can send our children to school, remember forced busing in the 60's?

We have allowed "it" to take the god of the Founding Fathers and the majority of Americans out of our schools and forbid the celebration of religious holidays that are christian but at the same time allowed "foreign" deities and customs to be taught to our children in the name of political correctness.

We have allowed "it" to tell us who we may or may not employe in our business by way of "quotas".

We have allowed "it" to force the average citizen to pay into social security while the minions of the federal government have their own, better retirement plan.

We have allowed "it" to defer the rights of the majority in order to appease the minority. I thought this was a country supposedly ruled by the majority and NOT the servant of the minority.

We have allowed "it" to open our borders to millions of "undocumented workers"(the politicaly correct term for illegal aliens) that the American citizen supports through welfare programs.

We have allowed "it" to blissfully waste tax dollars on rediculous government grants to study cow farts and fund artists who pee in a jar, drop a crucifix in it and call it art. We have allowed "it" to waste billions of dollars in foreign aid that never gets to the people of the countries we are trying to help but instead lines the pockets of the politicians.

We have allowed "it" to continuously vote itself pay raises while getting very little back in return for our money.

"It" operates with impunity and has forgotten its' purpose in life.
The federal government was formed to serve the citizens of this country; we have done a complete turn-about and it is the citizens who serve the government and the ever growing number of minions called government employees who excell in wasting our tax dollars.

Have we allowed it all to get so out of control that the genie can never be put back into the bottle?

Are we to become subjects instead of citizens?

America used to be a great country!!!

 

[USA90210]

I entirely agree with what you're saying. American did used to be a good country, and these politicians--all of them--try to make you think that they're going to make it a better place. All they do is make it more complicated...

 

[William Joyce]

Agreed.

The problem that I see is that historically, stuff like this doesn't reverse itself. It just keeps getting bigger, like a tick, until it explodes, and blood flies everywhere. Then, the process begins anew. Just suggest cutting any federal program, and people will be at your throat. Pretty soon, the federal tax rate will be over 50 percent for most of us. And it will be Republicans who do it!

 

[USA90210]

Originally posted by William Joyce
Agreed.

The problem that I see is that historically, stuff like this doesn't reverse itself. It just keeps getting bigger, like a tick, until it explodes, and blood flies everywhere. Then, the process begins anew. Just suggest cutting any federal program, and people will be at your throat. Pretty soon, the federal tax rate will be over 50 percent for most of us. And it will be Republicans who do it!

Yes, and the Republicans never forget the wealthy. They never forget to figure out how they are going to give all the rich people breaks. They don't give a shit about the average American but they'll make sure their rich friends got it made.

 

[AtlantaWalter]

This isn't an argument about democrat vs republican; both parties do their share when it comes to increasing the size of the federal government. The republicans go the big business/wealthy route and mess with taxation; the democrats keep increasing the social welfare system. It really doesn't matter which party is doing it; they both are probably equally guilty.

The question is, how large will the beast of federal government grow before it collapses upon itself and self-destructs. How much more will the citizens who are paying to support this monster be willing to cough up before they refuse to do it any more?

 

[Bullypulpit]

...Part of the problem lies with voters who want a multitude of services from government, but aren't willing to pay for them in the form of taxes. A choice must be made...Do you want the services the government can provide or do you want lower taxes? You can't have both.

But to answer the initial question...It is increasingly apparent that an aristocracy is developing in this country. Power is pooling in places the electorate can't touch. Monied interests have so thoroughly corrupted the democratic process that it is becoming more and more irrelevant as voter apathy soars. Political machines that would have left Boss Tweed green with envy gerrymander voting districts to meet their own ends. Easily corruptible electronic voting systems are now mandatory throughout the country.

We are doomed to become less than subjects...we will become serfs if we don't wake up and accept the responsibility our freedom demands and take our country back from the corrupt and decadent oligarchs and aristocrat wannbes that are stealing it from us.

 

[acludem]

The biggest problem in our country today is the mass apathy among much of the population. When you can't even get half of the eligible voters in our country to turn out vote for who will be the leader of the free world something is wrong. I firmly believe the media is a big part of the problem. We have dumbed our society down. The media is not biased left or right, it's biased toward selling papers and getting ratings. This means it will, and frequently does, sensationalize stories, report rumors and innuendo as if they were fact, and often times skew the news to affect the public in a way to increase consumption of media.

The media has been an ardent supporter of the Iraq War. Wars sell newspapers and they make people watch the news. This means more advertising money and bigger profits.

The other problem is the relative weakness of our party system. We need to do things. The first is set up a system that will encourage a couple of more parties to gain strength. We need to give all the parties control over who runs under their banner. This means an end to the primary system as we know it. This will cause parties to sharpen their messages and run candidates that truly represent the majority of their members. Term limits also must go.

We will only become subjects if we stop participating in our democracy. For democracy to work properly an informed and active populous is required. This means people actually have to learn to read a newspaper critically. We do a piss poor job of teaching civics. Young people today are more apathetic than ever. It gets harder and harder to find quality candidates for office. Politicians need money because most people simply vote for whoever runs the slickest TV ads. Laziness and ignorance are prevailing right now. A lazy, ignorant populace becomes susceptible to tyranny.

acludem

 

[Avatar4321]

"Yes, and the Republicans never forget the wealthy. They never forget to figure out how they are going to give all the rich people breaks. They don't give a shit about the average American but they'll make sure their rich friends got it made."

I guess, if you call giving a tax cut to everyone is a tax cut to the wealthy. But then the wealthy to democrats is anyone earning mor ethan 50000. And if you think about it even the poorest americans are among the wealthiest people in the world.

But the best way to free us from government is to start cutting taxes. and of course cutting programs that are useless. if the Government were a private business it would have gone bankrupt years ago. Who do you think Enron got its scandal ideas from?

But i agree, we need to stir up the people to change the government. there are too many apathetic people in the world. we are living in an age were freedom can flourish, or an age where freedom can be totally destroyed. its up to us.

 

[William Joyce]

Never forget that our great conservative hero, Ronald Reagan, cut only TWO federal programs while in office. Meanwhile, the rest of the government BALLOONED. Bush II, even worse. People aren't interested in cutting federal programs. Nobody will fight over that. The only thing they'll fight over is the program they get.

I hate to sound drastic, but it's not going to stop. No wise men will step forward and say we need sanity. Wise men are thinking about what the next thing will be.

I am 30. I do not expect America to collapse in my lifetime. But I will prepare my sons for it.

 

[Cousin Vinnie]

America is like any other great country in history. It works for awhile, even a long time, but then the people in power become greedy and it's starts to not work anymore. That's what's happening in America now. If no one stops it, the fall of America WILL occur in the future. And, the longer it takes for someone to step in, the harder it will be to stop.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

The media has been an ardent supporter of the Iraq War.

I don't know about that. A lot of stuff I've seen isn't exactly supportive, not that I'm complaining. That's just how it is.

The first is set up a system that will encourage a couple of more parties to gain strength.

I just don't see this happening.

Term limits also must go.

What would we do if we want to elect someone else?

 

[AtlantaWalter]

Originally posted by Cousin Vinnie
America is like any other great country in history. It works for awhile, even a long time, but then the people in power become greedy and it's starts to not work anymore. That's what's happening in America now. If no one stops it, the fall of America WILL occur in the future. And, the longer it takes for someone to step in, the harder it will be to stop.

Unfortunately, I agree. America has been in the decline mode for many years now. We've been trying to be all things to all countries and neglecting problems fomenting here at home.

America used to be a great country!!!