Stolen Valor Act

[TheGreatGatsby]

If the govt started prosecuting for lies much of the media would ve shut down and all politicians would say nothing.

Exactly!

And I'd be fine with that. But then who's going to shut down the government?

 

[Vidi]

Someone who lies about his military record is a liar and a jerk....he is not a criminal

Literally. Certainly his actions are metaphorically criminal.

No they are either criminal are they arent. Thats the beauty of the law. Its black and white.

 

[whitehall]

The federal court said the Stolen Valor act wasn't specific enough while they authorized a 3,000 page mess that few politicians read and nobody understands.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Someone who lies about his military record is a liar and a jerk....he is not a criminal

Literally. Certainly his actions are metaphorically criminal.

No they are either criminal are they arent. Thats the beauty of the law. Its black and white.

Ever hear of someone called a "lawyer"? The law is whatever a court says it is.

 

[MuadDib]

Literally. Certainly his actions are metaphorically criminal.

No they are either criminal are they arent. Thats the beauty of the law. Its black and white.

Ever hear of someone called a "lawyer"? The law is whatever a court says it is.

The law is what it is. Lawyers are well paid to manipulate it. The more they manipulate it, the more they are paid.

 

[syrenn]

oh my..... look at that


I find the irony in this thread.... funny as HELL!


sorry i just could not resit.... considering what i just read elsewhere. I apologize for the intrusion.

 

[Trajan]

I have to agree with the judge.


I saw what you did their syrenn and I disagree, it is not the same.

 

[syrenn]

I have to agree with the judge.


I saw what you did their syrenn and I disagree, it is not the same.

Did you?

 

[Trajan]

yes, I didz......

 

[SFC Ollie]

I have to agree with the judge.


I saw what you did their syrenn and I disagree, it is not the same.

I have to agree with the judge as far as the Law needing rewritten so as to pass constitutional Muster.........

 

[WorldWatcher]

I guess I'll pee in the pool.

I truly don't see an issue with PX Rangers other than their own lies eventually catching up to them. I do see an issue with a PX Ranger lying in order to get veterans' benefits from the government. On the one hand, you have a liar who basically isn't harming anyone other than his own sense of honor. On the other hand, you have someone who is attempting to gain financial, medical or other similar benefits under false pretenses, which is already defined as a criminal act.

If the gist of the Supreme Court's decision is that people have the right to be stupid, then it's a good decision. Otherwise, this can get out of hand any time anyone tells a war story.

Don't get me wrong: I think anyone who tries to pass himself off as a combat vet without having paid his dues is lower than whale dung. But it seems to me that passing a law to criminalize that act will probably end up as one of those well-intentioned but dumb law that gets out of hand. It's these types of laws that result in little old ladies being harassed because they had the audacity to display the US flag on their front porch or in little kids being sent home because they sang the National Anthem. I think the Stolen Valor Act falls under the category of "be careful what you ask for...you just might get it."

We have enough laws already. Those who lie about having been there-done that eventually get found out, and whether they admit it or not, eventually end up hiding under a cloud of shame that eats away at them.

Yup, those were pretty much my thoughts as well.

Fraud, illegal access to veteran's benefits, etc. that's one thing. Just being a low-life, scum sucking turd, magot - well that's another one and in a land of liberty then - well - that one of the messy things you just have to put up with.



What would be interesting though would be a public registry through the VA or DOD where there could be a method of verification. In most cases I think public shame and ridicule would be most appropriate.


>>>>

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What would be interesting though would be a public registry through the VA or DOD where there could be a method of verification.

For what useful or relevant purpose?

Service records can be provided by the applicant for employment, education, or veterans’ benefits, otherwise there’s no need.

This being such an emotional and subjective issue for some is why we have a First Amendment and judicial review. That the Act was in validated by the Supreme Court demonstrates Congress’ motive was political, not legal.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"For what useful or relevant purpose?"

Evaluation of poitical issues, groups, and cannidates. Grant? Ike? JFK? Kerry? The "Winter Soldiers"?

 

[WorldWatcher]

What would be interesting though would be a public registry through the VA or DOD where there could be a method of verification.

For what useful or relevant purpose?

Service records can be provided by the applicant for employment, education, or veterans’ benefits, otherwise there’s no need.

This being such an emotional and subjective issue for some is why we have a First Amendment and judicial review. That the Act was in validated by the Supreme Court demonstrates Congress’ motive was political, not legal.

What use?

................ Honestly?

............................Public humiliation for those who claim valor they did not earn.


>>>>

 

[9thIDdoc]

WinterSoldier.com - Newly Discovered Army Reports Discredit "Winter Soldier" Claims

"WSI was the source of the allegations John Kerry presented to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations in April 1971, at a hearing set up by antiwar Senators to showcase the VVAW's atrocity tales. The highly publicized appearance launched Kerry's political career and helped to create a lasting image of Vietnam veterans as drugged-out murderers too damaged to function in normal society. Justice was served in 2004 when a political movement led by some of the veterans John Kerry had defamed sank his presidential bid."

 

[High_Gravity]

So would impersonating an officer be legal??? Where do you draw the line?

Impersonating a Police Officer is illegal I believe, so should impersonating a Military member.

 

[JDzBrain]

Impersonating a Police Officer is illegal I believe, so should impersonating a Military member.

Actually...it IS illegal! Has been for YEARS. Can't remember when the law was passed or the name, but it's been illegal for WAY more than a hundred years to impersonate ANY government official.

As a matter of fact, it was...until the late 60's early 70's illegal to even wear military uniforms in part or whole. The best I remember, they eventually modified the law to say that you had to remove any visible military badges before wearing it to be legal.

Of course, the law was almost NEVER enforced on the general public. However, there have been MANY people arrested for trying to infiltrate military installations (Happened over here at Fort Campbell a couple years ago), government buildings and functions by putting on military uniforms and blending in.

The point is, it IS illegal!

By the way...I've been wearing thrift store BDUs for 50 years. My favorite jacket to this day is from the Korean War. LOL

 

[SFC Ollie]

And JD would be correct, it is illegal to wear the uniform and try to pass yourself off as an active duty troop. Not illegal to tell a prospective new boss that you are a highly decorated veteran.... Of course many places would ask for a copy of your 214...........

 

[whitehall]

You can't make this stuff up folks. The same Supremos who struck down the Stolen Valor act for being "too broadly written" upheld a 3,000 page monstrosity of a health care law that the freaking politicians who passed it didn't read.

 

[Peach]

There is an actual statute against that I believe.

what if lied about being an officer in the military? Is that protected?

I honestly don't know now. Prior to this ruling that would have been against the law under Stolen Valor. I know it is against the UCMJ to impersonate an Officer or NCO, but most of us do not fall under the UCMJ. Used to.........

The act was not well drafted, the dicta indicates a properly framed law would be upheld. I know the insult to the honor of those who have sacrificed should be protected; a law cannot repay what you have done for this nation, but the frauds must be punished accordingly.