Steinmeier Deal Sparks Protests in Ukraine, Praise in Moscow

[Penelope]

This story originated in VOA’s Ukrainian Service. Some information is from Reuters and AP.

WASHINGTON — The Ukrainian president’s support for a deal with pro-Russian rebels that would introduce a special status for Ukraine’s breakaway regions drew both outrage and praise across the nation Wednesday.

According to guidelines of the so-called Steinmeier Formula, which was signed late Tuesday in Kyiv, Russians, Ukrainians and European mediators have pledged to hold local elections in Ukraine’s rebel-held east, where a grinding five-year war between the separatists and Ukrainian troops has killed more than 13,000 people since 2014.
Steinmeier Deal Sparks Protests in Ukraine, Praise in Moscow
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This is what Putin wants also a civil war in the US, tramp is playing Putin wishes. First by instilling Tillerson as SOS after Exxon made a huge deal with Russia. What does Putin have over tramp??

 

[Bleipriester]

Why does Putin want civil war? Who toppled the legitimate government in Ukraine, Obama or Putin?
We don´t want your fucking wars here, Ubumu and Phrump. Fuck off. Den Haag now for those suckers.

 

[Olde Europe]

Why does Putin want civil war? Who toppled the legitimate government in Ukraine, Obama or Putin?
We don´t want your fucking wars here, Ubumu and Phrump. Fuck off. Den Haag now for those suckers.

And here I thought, it were Ukrainians who got rid of Putin's monumentally corrupt, self-enriching puppet in Kyiv, Yanukovych. With a little help from Brussels and Washington, certainly. But, whatever you might think of Brussels and Washington, Ukraine sure is better off without that thieving goon, no?

I also agree, the efforts to integrate Ukraine in the EU, including security cooperation, and maybe later into NATO, was stupidity on epic proportions, and guaranteed to spark Russian counter-measures. The form these took - annexing the Crimea and invading the Russian-dominated east of Ukraine, is pretty much the option Putin had to prevent Ukraine's move into the Western / NATO camp, after several warnings went unheeded. And what the heck were these goofs thinking, creating a direct border between NATO and Russia? So, you aren't entirely wrong to blame these moves on the West, and the U.S. in particular. On the other hand, Putin's stated aim to restore Russia to it's former USSR greatness also doesn't inspire much confidence that the borders between the blocks in Eastern Europe are being respected.

The point is, there needs to be a negotiated solution now, one that lets Ukraine out of both sides' grip, ends that proxy war, and respects Russia's security interests. The "Steinmeier formula" tentatively seems to move into that direction, and Zelensky appears to have understood what's necessary to put his nation together and onto its feet again. So, I don't quite understand what has you spitting venom now.

 

[Oddball]

Why does Putin want civil war? Who toppled the legitimate government in Ukraine, Obama or Putin?
We don´t want your fucking wars here, Ubumu and Phrump. Fuck off. Den Haag now for those suckers.

The way I hear it, there was an election last April....Seems the winner of that election is an anti-establishment type, who has said that he's going to drain Ukraine's swamp.

Certainly casts the situation in a different light, don't ya think?

 

[Bleipriester]

Why does Putin want civil war? Who toppled the legitimate government in Ukraine, Obama or Putin?
We don´t want your fucking wars here, Ubumu and Phrump. Fuck off. Den Haag now for those suckers.

And here I thought, it were Ukrainians who got rid of Putin's monumentally corrupt, self-enriching puppet in Kyiv, Yanukovych. With a little help from Brussels and Washington, certainly. But, whatever you might think of Brussels and Washington, Ukraine sure is better off without that thieving goon, no?

I also agree, the efforts to integrate Ukraine in the EU, including security cooperation, and maybe later into NATO, was stupidity on epic proportions, and guaranteed to spark Russian counter-measures. The form these took - annexing the Crimea and invading the Russian-dominated east of Ukraine, is pretty much the option Putin had to prevent Ukraine's move into the Western / NATO camp, after several warnings went unheeded. And what the heck were these goofs thinking, creating a direct border between NATO and Russia? So, you aren't entirely wrong to blame these moves on the West, and the U.S. in particular. On the other hand, Putin's stated aim to restore Russia to it's former USSR greatness also doesn't inspire much confidence that the borders between the blocks in Eastern Europe are being respected.

The point is, there needs to be a negotiated solution now, one that lets Ukraine out of both sides' grip, ends that proxy war, and respects Russia's security interests. The "Steinmeier formula" tentatively seems to move into that direction, and Zelensky appears to have understood what's necessary to put his nation together and onto its feet again. So, I don't quite understand what has you spitting venom now.

At first, "Euromaidan" protesters didn´t topple the government, they just demonstrated. Nazi hordes did.

Second, Russia is not concerned when a country does business with western countries. Russia is concerned when these countries (by proxy) try to isolate a country from Russia.
Ukraine is not better off today.

 

[Bleipriester]

Why does Putin want civil war? Who toppled the legitimate government in Ukraine, Obama or Putin?
We don´t want your fucking wars here, Ubumu and Phrump. Fuck off. Den Haag now for those suckers.

The way I hear it, there was an election last April....Seems the winner of that election is an anti-establishment type, who has said that he's going to drain Ukraine's swamp.

Certainly casts the situation in a different light, don't ya think?

You Trump disciples will never get it but the swamp is not going to drain the swamp.

 

[Oddball]

Why does Putin want civil war? Who toppled the legitimate government in Ukraine, Obama or Putin?
We don´t want your fucking wars here, Ubumu and Phrump. Fuck off. Den Haag now for those suckers.

The way I hear it, there was an election last April....Seems the winner of that election is an anti-establishment type, who has said that he's going to drain Ukraine's swamp.

Certainly casts the situation in a different light, don't ya think?

You Trump disciples will never get it but the swamp is not going to drain the swamp.

I'm just reporting on what I've heard about the situation....Have any evidence to the contrary?

 

[Bleipriester]

Why does Putin want civil war? Who toppled the legitimate government in Ukraine, Obama or Putin?
We don´t want your fucking wars here, Ubumu and Phrump. Fuck off. Den Haag now for those suckers.

The way I hear it, there was an election last April....Seems the winner of that election is an anti-establishment type, who has said that he's going to drain Ukraine's swamp.

Certainly casts the situation in a different light, don't ya think?

You Trump disciples will never get it but the swamp is not going to drain the swamp.

I'm just reporting on what I've heard about the situation....Have any evidence to the contrary?

Yes, their president won the elections with jokes and we can assume his actions are also just jokes.

 

[sparky]

I can't quite connect what's going on here, anyone gotta cliff notes version?

~S~

 

[Oddball]

Why does Putin want civil war? Who toppled the legitimate government in Ukraine, Obama or Putin?
We don´t want your fucking wars here, Ubumu and Phrump. Fuck off. Den Haag now for those suckers.

The way I hear it, there was an election last April....Seems the winner of that election is an anti-establishment type, who has said that he's going to drain Ukraine's swamp.

Certainly casts the situation in a different light, don't ya think?

You Trump disciples will never get it but the swamp is not going to drain the swamp.

I'm just reporting on what I've heard about the situation....Have any evidence to the contrary?

Yes, their president won the elections with jokes and we can assume his actions are also just jokes.

So there was a legit election that a legit candidate won, rather than your silly claim that their gubmint was "toppled".

And now it seems he's willing to work with Trump, in order to get to the bottom of some seriously shady dealings involving BILLIONS of US taxpayer loot.

I'm failing to see the problem with that.

 

[Bleipriester]

Why does Putin want civil war? Who toppled the legitimate government in Ukraine, Obama or Putin?
We don´t want your fucking wars here, Ubumu and Phrump. Fuck off. Den Haag now for those suckers.

The way I hear it, there was an election last April....Seems the winner of that election is an anti-establishment type, who has said that he's going to drain Ukraine's swamp.

Certainly casts the situation in a different light, don't ya think?

You Trump disciples will never get it but the swamp is not going to drain the swamp.

I'm just reporting on what I've heard about the situation....Have any evidence to the contrary?

Yes, their president won the elections with jokes and we can assume his actions are also just jokes.

So there was a legit election that a legit candidate won, rather than your silly claim that their gubmint was "toppled".

And now it seems he's willing to work with Trump, in order to get to the bottom of some seriously shady dealings involving BILLIONS of US taxpayer loot.

I'm failing to see the problem with that.

Wrong. All elections after the naziputsch are actually illegitimate and void.

 

[sparky]

So there was a legit election that a legit candidate won

Oh puuUUUuulease Odd one...wtf on this rock has that occurred in the last generation? ~S~

 

[Olde Europe]

At first, "Euromaidan" protesters didn´t topple the government, they just demonstrated. Nazi hordes did.



Second, Russia is not concerned when a country does business with western countries. Russia is concerned when these countries (by proxy) try to isolate a country from Russia.
Ukraine is not better off today.

That's just dumb. A few dozen Nazis among tens of thousands of protesters toppled the government. Really, that's what you want to go with?

As to "isolate", you are merely restating, in simplistic terms, my argument.

Finally, I didn't say Ukraine is better off now - merely that not being governed by a corrupt puppet is better than being governed by one. Was that too hard to grasp? Is your spluttering apoplexy by now on such a level, you couldn't even see that I am in part on your side of the argument?

Finally, I still don't understand, and didn't get an answer, why you are spitting venom now. For now at least, Moscow seems pleased, and Zelensky seems to support the deal, so things appear to be moving towards reconciliation, and an end of the warfare might be in sight. So, what is it, hoping it isn't just habitual by now?

 

[Bleipriester]

At first, "Euromaidan" protesters didn´t topple the government, they just demonstrated. Nazi hordes did.



Second, Russia is not concerned when a country does business with western countries. Russia is concerned when these countries (by proxy) try to isolate a country from Russia.
Ukraine is not better off today.

That's just dumb. A few dozen Nazis among tens of thousands of protesters toppled the government. Really, that's what you want to go with?

As to "isolate", you are merely restating, in simplistic terms, my argument.

Finally, I didn't say Ukraine is better off now - merely that not being governed by a corrupt puppet is better than being governed by one. Was that too hard to grasp? Is your spluttering apoplexy by now on such a level, you couldn't even see that I am in part on your side of the argument?

Finally, I still don't understand, and didn't get an answer, why you are spitting venom now. For now at least, Moscow seems pleased, and Zelensky seems to support the deal, so things appear to be moving towards reconciliation, and an end of the warfare might be in sight. So, what is it, hoping it isn't just habitual by now?

You are arguing like a father to his son but you argue on facts that you self invented.

 

[Oddball]

The way I hear it, there was an election last April....Seems the winner of that election is an anti-establishment type, who has said that he's going to drain Ukraine's swamp.

Certainly casts the situation in a different light, don't ya think?

You Trump disciples will never get it but the swamp is not going to drain the swamp.

I'm just reporting on what I've heard about the situation....Have any evidence to the contrary?

Yes, their president won the elections with jokes and we can assume his actions are also just jokes.

So there was a legit election that a legit candidate won, rather than your silly claim that their gubmint was "toppled".

And now it seems he's willing to work with Trump, in order to get to the bottom of some seriously shady dealings involving BILLIONS of US taxpayer loot.

I'm failing to see the problem with that.

Wrong. All elections after the naziputsch are actually illegitimate and void.

What the fuck are you blabbering about?

 

[Oddball]

So there was a legit election that a legit candidate won

Oh puuUUUuulease Odd one...wtf on this rock has that occurred in the last generation? ~S~

Well, there was Brexit...Then there was Trump....Now an out-of-left-field candidate in Ukraine.

I know patterns when I see them.

 

[Bleipriester]

You Trump disciples will never get it but the swamp is not going to drain the swamp.

I'm just reporting on what I've heard about the situation....Have any evidence to the contrary?

Yes, their president won the elections with jokes and we can assume his actions are also just jokes.

So there was a legit election that a legit candidate won, rather than your silly claim that their gubmint was "toppled".

And now it seems he's willing to work with Trump, in order to get to the bottom of some seriously shady dealings involving BILLIONS of US taxpayer loot.

I'm failing to see the problem with that.

Wrong. All elections after the naziputsch are actually illegitimate and void.

What the fuck are you blabbering about?

It is evident that you have no idea about what happened in Ukraine.

 

[Oddball]

I'm just reporting on what I've heard about the situation....Have any evidence to the contrary?

Yes, their president won the elections with jokes and we can assume his actions are also just jokes.

So there was a legit election that a legit candidate won, rather than your silly claim that their gubmint was "toppled".

And now it seems he's willing to work with Trump, in order to get to the bottom of some seriously shady dealings involving BILLIONS of US taxpayer loot.

I'm failing to see the problem with that.

Wrong. All elections after the naziputsch are actually illegitimate and void.

What the fuck are you blabbering about?

It is evident that you have no idea about what happened in Ukraine.

Oh, but I do....I just don't automatically take the commonly accepted narratives of what happened...I gather lots of information and draw my own conclusions.

You do realize there's a common thread weaving through Brexit supporters, Trump voters, and Zelensky supporters, right?

NAZIS!!!

Isn't that conveeeeeenient?

 

[Olde Europe]

You are arguing like a father to his son but you argue on facts that you self invented.

Gawd. Posting a pic from "fakepics.files.wordpress.com" - no kidding - you accuse me of inventing facts?


Look, if you want to run with Putin's propaganda - Nazis have toppled the Ukrainian government - have at it. It just disqualifies you as a debater, and in the same way as those who merely regurgitate Washington's propaganda. Still, that's your prerogative.

You appear actually to care for Ukrainians. If true, more power to you. Then you should also see that Nazis toppling the government would be a guarantee that no more elections will happen, and Jews and gays vanish from the streets, no? In the end, you are belittling and besmirching what Ukrainians have accomplished on the Maidan - ugly scenes and many more dead than I thought possible, granted. A population getting rid of a thieving, corrupt autocrat, that is a good thing. If you can't admit that, you are plainly gone off to some scurrilous fantasy-land. It doesn't mean what comes thereafter is necessarily better, and political developments will somehow all sail smoothly under a lucky star. It just means, they got rid of a crook.

No one knows at the time whether the new agreement will actually be implemented. As it stands - separating troops, Russian troops out of Ukraine, holding free and fair elections so that the folks in the Donbas get a say, under international supervision, most of all finally ending hostilities - all that looks like a lot of good things for the war-torn region. Again, whether it'll work out, no idea. Worth working for it it unambiguously is, though. Trumpistan didn't even have a seat at the table, and you spitting venom on this occasion I still don't understand.

 

[Bleipriester]

You are arguing like a father to his son but you argue on facts that you self invented.

Gawd. Posting a pic from "fakepics.files.wordpress.com" - no kidding - you accuse me of inventing facts?


Look, if you want to run with Putin's propaganda - Nazis have toppled the Ukrainian government - have at it. It just disqualifies you as a debater, and in the same way as those who merely regurgitate Washington's propaganda. Still, that's your prerogative.

You appear actually to care for Ukrainians. If true, more power to you. Then you should also see that Nazis toppling the government would be a guarantee that no more elections will happen, and Jews and gays vanish from the streets, no? In the end, you are belittling and besmirching what Ukrainians have accomplished on the Maidan - ugly scenes and many more dead than I thought possible, granted. A population getting rid of a thieving, corrupt autocrat, that is a good thing. If you can't admit that, you are plainly gone off to some scurrilous fantasy-land. It doesn't mean what comes thereafter is necessarily better, and political developments will somehow all sail smoothly under a lucky star. It just means, they got rid of a crook.

No one knows at the time whether the new agreement will actually be implemented. As it stands - separating troops, Russian troops out of Ukraine, holding free and fair elections so that the folks in the Donbas get a say, under international supervision, most of all finally ending hostilities - all that looks like a lot of good things for the war-torn region. Again, whether it'll work out, no idea. Worth working for it it unambiguously is, though. Trumpistan didn't even have a seat at the table, and you spitting venom on this occasion I still don't understand.

I didn´t your trash as your first sentence is already a baseless accusation.