Johnson State Poll shows Johnson at 15% in Virginia

[Montrovant]

"State Poll shows Johnson at 15% in Virginia"

Which is bad for Trump, as most of those votes would go to him.

Otherwise, that’s a pathetic showing, as a vast majority of Americans reject naïve, reactionary, wrongheaded libertarian dogma, and appropriately so.

You think taking 15% from the major parties is pathetic? Do you actually pay attention to US politics?

 

[flacaltenn]

I have already pointed out that you are wrong, flacaltn.

Libertarian Party? Put ten liberts in a tent, and they will define libertarianism ten different ways.

Actually, that's not ever likely to happen. And having spent my last 20 years in many rooms of "liberts", the ACTUAL problem is philosophical "purity".. Those 10 libertarians will try to OUTDO each other on principles.

Which is good.. Because those principles have been decades AHEAD of Amer. public opinion and usually right.
But it's a problem when you bring the party into the big tent and try to accommodate a wider spectrum of beliefs.

I don't think ANY party ought to pride itself on "purity" for fundamentals. Surely there is room to accommodate differences on abortion, welfare, trade, immigration and other PRACTICAL issues. There should be "pro-life" candidates in the Dem Party, and pro-choice in the Repubs. And there ARE !!!!

It's good enough to field national tickets that will HONOR the fundamentals, but work with what they are GIVEN as a current status quo. And as long as the ball is moved in the right direction, that's all we should expect -- when the job is to GOVERN from the CURRENT realities...

 

[flacaltenn]

BTW: those people focused on who Johnson/Weld is taking votes "from" -- are totally unaware that THEIR parties they want to protect are LOSING membership and support every year. The number of LOYAL party members are taking a nosedive for last 16 years or so.

And VERY soon -- the number of "politically homeless" people -- INCLUDING 3rd party supporters -- will be LARGER than both of your sorry ass parties put together. Right now, it's about 45%. I imagine after this compost heap of an election and the dissatisfaction and anger at the outcome, that will be over 50%..

So -- the deal is -- maybe 2% comes from "clinton" and 1% comes from "trump". The remaining 12% are the open minded Americans who consider Brand Name politics a disaster and worthless.

 

[Montrovant]

BTW: those people focused on who Johnson/Weld is taking votes "from" -- are totally unaware that THEIR parties they want to protect are LOSING membership and support every year. The number of LOYAL party members are taking a nosedive for last 16 years or so.

And VERY soon -- the number of "politically homeless" people -- INCLUDING 3rd party supporters -- will be LARGER than both of your sorry ass parties put together. Right now, it's about 45%. I imagine after this compost heap of an election and the dissatisfaction and anger at the outcome, that will be over 50%..

So -- the deal is -- maybe 2% comes from "clinton" and 1% comes from "trump". The remaining 12% are the open minded Americans who consider Brand Name politics a disaster and worthless.

You can say that the major parties are losing membership and support, but what are the voting numbers? Have the big two lost voters?

What people say outside of the voting booths doesn't matter much if they still pick the D or R candidate each time.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are right. You probably cannot get ten libertarians into one spot. But go for it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

BTW: those people focused on who Johnson/Weld is taking votes "from" -- are totally unaware that THEIR parties they want to protect are LOSING membership and support every year. The number of LOYAL party members are taking a nosedive for last 16 years or so.

And VERY soon -- the number of "politically homeless" people -- INCLUDING 3rd party supporters -- will be LARGER than both of your sorry ass parties put together. Right now, it's about 45%. I imagine after this compost heap of an election and the dissatisfaction and anger at the outcome, that will be over 50%..

So -- the deal is -- maybe 2% comes from "clinton" and 1% comes from "trump". The remaining 12% are the open minded Americans who consider Brand Name politics a disaster and worthless.

Now that ^^^^ I agree with. Either the parties reach out to meet the middle class needs and drop the far left and the far/alt right crazies, or new parties will arise to replace them.

 

[flacaltenn]

BTW: those people focused on who Johnson/Weld is taking votes "from" -- are totally unaware that THEIR parties they want to protect are LOSING membership and support every year. The number of LOYAL party members are taking a nosedive for last 16 years or so.

And VERY soon -- the number of "politically homeless" people -- INCLUDING 3rd party supporters -- will be LARGER than both of your sorry ass parties put together. Right now, it's about 45%. I imagine after this compost heap of an election and the dissatisfaction and anger at the outcome, that will be over 50%..

So -- the deal is -- maybe 2% comes from "clinton" and 1% comes from "trump". The remaining 12% are the open minded Americans who consider Brand Name politics a disaster and worthless.

You can say that the major parties are losing membership and support, but what are the voting numbers? Have the big two lost voters?

What people say outside of the voting booths doesn't matter much if they still pick the D or R candidate each time.

The 42% haven't been offered candidates that CHANGE anything in Washington. The corruption, the ineptitude, the arrogance. So they mostly sit it out. They are largely the 1/2 that does not participate. The Bernie folks, the Tea Party folks, the TRUE liberals, and the just fed up.

Largely, this group is libertarian. Smaller better govt, accent on performance of massive bureaucracy, ethical leadership, socially inclusive. Until recently, the LParty ran some sketchy choices. Chosen for their zeal in making EVERYTHING INSTANTLY "libertarian". But these people were not administrators and pragmatists.

You have to run people who have been the victims of Washington. And State Governors are the best choice.

 

[flacaltenn]

BTW: those people focused on who Johnson/Weld is taking votes "from" -- are totally unaware that THEIR parties they want to protect are LOSING membership and support every year. The number of LOYAL party members are taking a nosedive for last 16 years or so.

And VERY soon -- the number of "politically homeless" people -- INCLUDING 3rd party supporters -- will be LARGER than both of your sorry ass parties put together. Right now, it's about 45%. I imagine after this compost heap of an election and the dissatisfaction and anger at the outcome, that will be over 50%..

So -- the deal is -- maybe 2% comes from "clinton" and 1% comes from "trump". The remaining 12% are the open minded Americans who consider Brand Name politics a disaster and worthless.

Now that ^^^^ I agree with. Either the parties reach out to meet the middle class needs and drop the far left and the far/alt right crazies, or new parties will arise to replace them.

That 42% -- soon to be the majority is NOT the "middle class". It's composed of all classes, and age groups. I believe they are the more DEMANDING ones as well. And the Brand Name parties have ABANDONED any kind of unique identity. Which is clear in this election. The LParty is unique -- because it is neither left or right. It's closer to the CLASSIC Liberalism that this country was founded on.

And if you're looking to restore checks and balances, and competent, ethical govt --- you want to move back to the Feds PRIORITIZING their fundamental duties and stop micro-managing every aspect of Amer. life.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sigh. Whatever.

 

[TNHarley]

"what is a Virginia?"
hehe

 

[oldsoul]

I have already pointed out that you are wrong, flacaltn.

Libertarian Party? Put ten liberts in a tent, and they will define libertarianism ten different ways.

What is your point? Put ten people of ANY ideology in a tent and you will get ten definitions of what said ideology is. It matters not what the ideology is, put ten people in a tent that are of any "group" and you will get ten definitions of what that "group" is. Have you ever come across two liberals that would define liberalism the same? How about two black folks that define what it is to be black the same? Or Christians, Jews, Americans, Muslims, men, women, homosexuals, students, professionals, gamers, the list goes on and on, it is all inclusive. So, to say that no two Libertarians, let alone ten, would agree on everything, is a pretty dumb argument against Libertarianism.

 

[JakeStarkey]

My point is that Libertarianism is not the answer to America's problems. Never has been, never will be.

 

[oldsoul]

My point is that Libertarianism is not the answer to America's problems. Never has been, never will be.

Maybe, maybe not. One cannot know for sure without trying it, IMHO. What we DO know is that the current way of doing things in Washington, has failed, will continue to fail, and has no hope of ever succeeding. This country continues to become more and more divided along ideological, racial, and other demographical lines. There is no end to this division in sight, and no one in the Republican or the Democratic parties that have any clear vision on how to unite us on anything of significance.

 

[flacaltenn]

My point is that Libertarianism is not the answer to America's problems. Never has been, never will be.

What part of smaller, better govt and social inclusion and no foreign nation building ----- is NOT an answer to America's problems?

 

[JakeStarkey]

My point is that Libertarianism is not the answer to America's problems. Never has been, never will be.

What part of smaller, better govt and social inclusion and no foreign nation building ----- is NOT an answer to America's problems?

What part of "you don't get" that libertarianism is not an integrated, cohesive political philosophy?

Even you guys can't get along in your few thousands.

 

[flacaltenn]

My point is that Libertarianism is not the answer to America's problems. Never has been, never will be.

What part of smaller, better govt and social inclusion and no foreign nation building ----- is NOT an answer to America's problems?

What part of "you don't get" that libertarianism is not an integrated, cohesive political philosophy?

Even you guys can't get along in your few thousands.

It's just as integrated and cohesive as Progressivism, or Conservatism. Even moreso, because it's based on the simple LIBERAL tenets that came out of the political enlightment in the 1700s. Which is to RESTRAIN the govt from micro-managing both Economic and Social choices and freedoms.

In fact, a primary tenet is to refrain from the "use of force" or law as the govts' FIRST reaction to any issue. .

How do you NOT know this???

 

[flacaltenn]

My point is that Libertarianism is not the answer to America's problems. Never has been, never will be.

What part of smaller, better govt and social inclusion and no foreign nation building ----- is NOT an answer to America's problems?

What part of "you don't get" that libertarianism is not an integrated, cohesive political philosophy?

Even you guys can't get along in your few thousands.

No Jakey. The problem as i told you, was to keep the Libert faithful from becoming borg-like clones of each other on DOGMATIC adherence to Libertarian principles. You have no idea how united the philosophy and problem solving is ---- because "brand name politics" abandoned any principles over the past 50 years.

You couldn't be MORE wrong. So I suggest you either poll LParty members or go find something else to be totally wrong about.

There is ONE battle within the clan.. And that is because anarchists tend to flock to us believing that we are the closest to their rejection of everything. We humor them, because they are entertaining. But from basic principles, we LOVE the Constitution, we LOVE the legal system, and we LOVE our country.

 

[JakeStarkey]

My point is that Libertarianism is not the answer to America's problems. Never has been, never will be.

What part of smaller, better govt and social inclusion and no foreign nation building ----- is NOT an answer to America's problems?

What part of "you don't get" that libertarianism is not an integrated, cohesive political philosophy?

Even you guys can't get along in your few thousands.

It's just as integrated and cohesive as Progressivism, or Conservatism. Even moreso, because it's based on the simple LIBERAL tenets that came out of the political enlightment in the 1700s. Which is to RESTRAIN the govt from micro-managing both Economic and Social choices and freedoms.

In fact, a primary tenet is to refrain from the "use of force" or law as the govts' FIRST reaction to any issue. .

How do you NOT know this???

Yawn. The problem is your inability to integrate with political reality in America.

 

[flacaltenn]

My point is that Libertarianism is not the answer to America's problems. Never has been, never will be.

What part of smaller, better govt and social inclusion and no foreign nation building ----- is NOT an answer to America's problems?

What part of "you don't get" that libertarianism is not an integrated, cohesive political philosophy?

Even you guys can't get along in your few thousands.

It's just as integrated and cohesive as Progressivism, or Conservatism. Even moreso, because it's based on the simple LIBERAL tenets that came out of the political enlightment in the 1700s. Which is to RESTRAIN the govt from micro-managing both Economic and Social choices and freedoms.

In fact, a primary tenet is to refrain from the "use of force" or law as the govts' FIRST reaction to any issue. .

How do you NOT know this???

Yawn. The problem is your inability to integrate with political reality in America.

The political reality in America is -- we wouldn't have over 10,000 dead and wounded troops from endless wars to plant democracy in the Mid-East. Would not have a collapsing ObamaCare system, would not have the world's top spy agency given free reign to plow every personal communication and financial exchange. Would not unaccountable AGENCY minions of morons writing the legislation that CONGRESS should have written. And holding America hostage with legal and economic uncertainty YEARS after the Prez signs a bill.

Would not have collapsing political morals because your 2 parties will do and say ANYTHING to win elections. And we would have more personal choices and Liberty than you've taken away in my lifetime.

Johnson/Weld is EXACTLY the type of mgt team that needs to step in and stop the SCREAMING, the lack of respect, and the downward spiral in accountability because "their guys did it first".. And cut the demonizing of the "other"..

 

[JakeStarkey]

Donald Trump will launch WWIII in Syria. Did you not listen to his veep candidate, saying we would strike anyone who opposed us there? Johnson will not be elected, will not get EVs, Flacaltn. Please stay with reality.