State health care and individual rights.

[progressive hunter]

Mkay - and how do you answer the questions in the OP? Do you think restrictions should be imposed so people don't abuse the system?

there are rules in ever system to stop abuse,,

 

[jknowgood]

Ahh... yes. Statists love "creating incentives". Especially incentives where they take your money by force, and only give it back if you do as you're told.

Agreed. I'm not saying that. Never have.

 

[jknowgood]

I just say if you're on welfare, you should be drug tested. Most of the people that support them have to be drug tested. Oh and all government employees also, especially our house leaders.

 

[dudmuck]

Mkay - and how do you answer the questions in the OP? Do you think restrictions should be imposed so people don't abuse the system?

they are already imposed on medicare. Fraud an abuse detection and handling is part of medicare administration, and is far less cost than the administration overhead of private insurance.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

And you don't think that will be used in the same fashion? I mean, let's say we go to war with China and Congress reinstates the draft. Will draft-dodgers get their UBI? Or will it be withheld until they join up?

Well....

1. Why are we going to war with China? (this is a huge topic with lots of factors)
2. Why should we be forced to fight a war started by the establishment unless China is actually invading? If there's an invasion, you won't even need a draft. Every rifle in the country would be shooting at the invaders. Like the Japanese Admiral Yamamoto (allegedly) said, you cannot attack mainland U.S. There will be a rifle behind every blade of grass.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

milton had a lot of caveats for having a UBI,,

I know. He was a brilliant economist, as is his protégé Thomas "Uncle Tom" Sewell.

 

[progressive hunter]

Well....

1. Why are we going to war with China? (this is a huge topic with lots of factors)
2. Why should we be forced to fight a war started by the establishment unless China is actually invading? If there's an invasion, you won't even need a draft. Every rifle in the country would be shooting at the invaders. Like the Japanese Admiral Yamamoto (allegedly) said, you cannot attack mainland U.S. There will be a rifle behind every blade of grass.

thay have already invaded,, both economically and directly with their paying government people and their families,,

not all invasions are military,,

 

[dblack]

Well....

1. Why are we going to war with China? (this is a huge topic with lots of factors)

Beats me. That's irrelevant to my point.

2. Why should we be forced to fight a war started by the establishment unless China is actually invading?

No good reason. Also irrelevant. We were talking about UBI and how government "benefits" are used to control people.

 

[dblack]

thay have already invaded,, both economically and directly with their paying government people and their families,,

not all invasions are military,,

True that:

Former CIA Agent Admits to Collection of Alien Devices Found Inside

Article by Kirsty Card August 2, 2021

exonews.org

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Beats me. That's irrelevant to my point.

No good reason. Also irrelevant. We were talking about UBI and how government "benefits" are used to control people.

Your point is well taken. They give us table scraps after making life miserable and with said table scraps comes strings attached.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

thay have already invaded,, both economically and directly with their paying government people and their families,,

not all invasions are military,,

True, but in order to wield the kind of power they are used to wielding, they must disarm 100 million unwilling.

 

[progressive hunter]

True, but in order to wield the kind of power they are used to wielding, they must disarm 100 million unwilling.

true,, one might say by destroying our manufacturing infrastructure they are doing that,, time is on their side,,

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

true,, one might say by destroying our manufacturing infrastructure they are doing that,, time is on their side,,

What do you think about that, dblack? How do we stop the destruction?

 

[dblack]

What do you think about that, dblack? How do we stop the destruction?

How do we stop what exactly? Government has no responsibility to maintain our manufacturing infrastructure. We're not fully socialist just yet.

 

[progressive hunter]

How do we stop what exactly? Government has no responsibility to maintain our manufacturing infrastructure. We're not fully socialist just yet.

they have a responsibility to stop foreign countries from taking it over,,

in fact thats the main job of the feds,, national security,,

 

[Dana7360]

In another thread, statists are proposing that we crack down on welfare recipients, and do more to make sure they spend the money as we'd like. The rationale being, more or less, "why should I pay for their bad habits?".

With momentum growing for making health care a government responsibility, that argument has some "interesting" implications. If healthcare is financed with "your" tax dollars, why should you pay for someone else's poor health habits? Should there be restrictions on the diet and health habits of people who use the system?

Why should you have to pay for all the healthcare problems caused by overeating and gluttony?

Why should you have to pay for the healthcare of people who engage in risky sports?

Why should you have to pay for treatment of sexually transmitted diseases?

Why should you have to pay for all the health problems associated with drug and alcohol abuse?

More importantly, how should we deal with people who try to abuse the health care system in this way?

Seriously, that is such a silly question.

Everyone is paying for everyone else's health care and bad habits now.

We have been all along.

If you have insurance, you are paying for someone else's health care and their bad habits.

That question and statement is as old as the hills. It's also one of the tools that is used to deny health care to Americans.

Should I have the right to deny someone health care because I don't do or eat the same things they do?

Of course not.

If you have medicare or pay into medicare, you're paying for someone else's bad habits.

So if you really don't want to pay for someone else's bad habits, stop paying for that insurance you have, stop paying those medicare payments and start paying for all your own health care needs out of your own pocket.

Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, I am a single payer person and I know this nation needs single payer heath care.

 

[progressive hunter]

Seriously, that is such a silly question.

Everyone is paying for everyone else's health care and bad habits now.

We have been all along.

If you have insurance, you are paying for someone else's health care and their bad habits.

That question and statement is as old as the hills. It's also one of the tools that is used to deny health care to Americans.

Should I have the right to deny someone health care because I don't do or eat the same things they do?

Of course not.

If you have medicare or pay into medicare, you're paying for someone else's bad habits.

So if you really don't want to pay for someone else's bad habits, stop paying for that insurance you have, stop paying those medicare payments and start paying for all your own health care needs out of your own pocket.

Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, I am a single payer person and I know this nation needs single payer heath care.

thats a voluntary system that doesnt involve the government,,

 

[dblack]

Seriously, that is such a silly question.

Does that mean it's too hard for you to answer?

Do you think the state should impose restrictions so that people don't abuse the health care system with their bad health habits?

 

[progressive hunter]

Does that mean it's too hard for you to answer?

Do you think the state should impose restrictions so that people don't abuse the health care system with their bad health habits?

my answer is the government has no business in anyones medical care,,

 

[Dana7360]

thats a voluntary system that doesnt involve the government,,

Medicare is voluntary?

And who doesn't want heath care insurance?

Everyone who has a job and their employer offers it, is enrolled in employer provided insurance.

Give it a rest.

I want the government involved with paying my health care bills.

I'm tired of paying 1309.35 a month in insurance premiums. Insurance I barely use but need incase breast cancer returns to try to kill me again.

I don't believe it's fair that those who don't have an employer who offers insurance or aren't working have to either go without heath care or have to pay astronomical rates. Like I have to pay.

I'm paying a lot of money for someone else to have health care and for an already filthy rich insurance company to get even more filthy rich.

If the government paid the bills instead of a private insurance company, I wouldn't be paying anywhere close to what I have to pay now and I would get much better coverage.

So would most people.

Those working wouldn't be at the mercy of their employer as to what kind and how good of health care they get with single payer.

Should I be able to deny you health care because you eat red meat? It's been proven over and over how lethal it is, it causes a long list of lethal health problems.

Should I deny you health care because I don't like your lifestyle? Or because you don't go to a gym 5 days a week? Or because you participate in a sport that I believe is dangerous?

Does the government deny people on medicare or medicaid health care because of their "bad habits?"

No they don't.

So there is no reason to believe that the government would if we had single payer.