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State health care and individual rights.

dblack

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In another thread, statists are proposing that we crack down on welfare recipients, and do more to make sure they spend the money as we'd like. The rationale being, more or less, "why should I pay for their bad habits?".

With momentum growing for making health care a government responsibility, that argument has some "interesting" implications. If healthcare is financed with "your" tax dollars, why should you pay for someone else's poor health habits? Should there be restrictions on the diet and health habits of people who use the system?

Why should you have to pay for all the healthcare problems caused by overeating and gluttony?

Why should you have to pay for the healthcare of people who engage in risky sports?

Why should you have to pay for treatment of sexually transmitted diseases?

Why should you have to pay for all the health problems associated with drug and alcohol abuse?

More importantly, how should we deal with people who try to abuse the health care system in this way?
 

Anomalism

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Telling a person "If you want this money you must behave this way." is creating an incentive. Saying rich people are oppressing poor people gives the impression that poor people are entitled to handouts from greedy and unfair rich people.
 

progressive hunter

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In another thread, statists are proposing that we crack down on welfare recipients, and do more to make sure they spend the money as we'd like. The rationale being, more or less, "why should I pay for their bad habits?".

With momentum growing for making health care a government responsibility, that argument has some "interesting" implications. If healthcare is financed with "your" tax dollars, why should you pay for someone else's poor health habits? Should there be restrictions on the diet and health habits of people who use the system?

Why should you have to pay for all the healthcare problems caused by overeating and gluttony?

Why should you have to pay for the healthcare of people who engage in risky sports?

Why should you have to pay for treatment of sexually transmitted diseases?

Why should you have to pay for all the health problems associated with drug and alcohol abuse?

More importantly, how should we deal with people who try to abuse the health care system in this way?
why are you lying about the other thread??

no one is saying what they should spend the money on,, only that its for food and not candy and soda pop,,

no differnet than saying you cant go over the speed limit or run a stop sign
 
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dblack

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Telling a person "If you want this money you must behave this way." is creating an incentive.
Ahh... yes. Statists love "creating incentives". Especially incentives where they take your money by force, and only give it back if you do as you're told.
Saying rich people are oppressing poor people gives the impression that poor people are entitled to handouts from greedy and unfair rich people.
Agreed. I'm not saying that. Never have.
 

progressive hunter

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Ahh... yes. Statists love "creating incentives". Especially incentives where they take your money by force, and only give it back if you do as you're told.

I'm not saying that. Never have.
whos telling them to do anything??
 

Dont Taz Me Bro

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In another thread, statists are proposing that we crack down on welfare recipients, and do more to make sure they spend the money as we'd like. The rationale being, more or less, "why should I pay for their bad habits?".
I fail to see how this makes someone a statist considering nobody has a right to the welfare state
 
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dblack

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I fail to see how this makes someone a statist considering nobody has a right to the welfare state
We all have an equal right to the "services" of government. And we shouldn't have to forfeit our rights to use them.

I'm just seeing the dynamic play out, again and again, where liberals pass an ill-conceived law, and conservatives show us why it's was bad idea. Welfare is a bad idea because the state will, inevitably, use it to strong-arm people - threaten to revoke the benefit if they don't do as they are told.
 

progressive hunter

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We all have an equal right to the "services" of government. And we shouldn't have to forfeit our rights to use them.

I'm just seeing the dynamic play out, again and again, where liberals pass an ill-conceived law, and conservatives show us why it's was bad idea. Welfare is a bad idea because the state will, inevitably, use it to strong-arm people - threaten to revoke the benefit if they don't do as they are told.
welfare isnt a service authorized in the constitution,,
 
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dblack

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Dont Taz Me Bro

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We all have an equal right to the "services" of government.
We don't, actually. I can't go down to the welfare office and apply. I'll get denied.
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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In another thread, statists are proposing that we crack down on welfare recipients, and do more to make sure they spend the money as we'd like. The rationale being, more or less, "why should I pay for their bad habits?".

With momentum growing for making health care a government responsibility, that argument has some "interesting" implications. If healthcare is financed with "your" tax dollars, why should you pay for someone else's poor health habits? Should there be restrictions on the diet and health habits of people who use the system?

Why should you have to pay for all the healthcare problems caused by overeating and gluttony?

Why should you have to pay for the healthcare of people who engage in risky sports?

Why should you have to pay for treatment of sexually transmitted diseases?

Why should you have to pay for all the health problems associated with drug and alcohol abuse?

More importantly, how should we deal with people who try to abuse the health care system in this way?
Aside from the fact that government is essentially taking money from one person and giving it to another, no I don't think government should force any health care decisions for welfare recipients. Two wrongs do not make a right.
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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We don't, actually. I can't go down to the welfare office and apply. I'll get denied.
Which makes a solid argument for universal income, which Milton Friedman supported as a way to decrease the administrative cost and fairness issues associated with only providing it to certain people.
 
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dblack

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We don't, actually. I can't go down to the welfare office and apply. I'll get denied.
You won't get me to defend welfare. It's fucked up six ways to Sunday. But the rationale is that it is effectively, poverty insurance. We all pay premiums and then, if faced with poverty, can file a claim.

And now government wants to take over health insurance. Does that justify requiring people to live what the government considers a "healthy lifestyle"? How do you answer the questions posed in the OP?
 
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dblack

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Which makes a solid argument for universal income, which Milton Friedman supported as a way to decrease the administrative cost and fairness issues associated with only providing it to certain people.
And you don't think that will be used in the same fashion? I mean, let's say we go to war with China and Congress reinstates the draft. Will draft-dodgers get their UBI? Or will it be withheld until they join up?
 

LordBrownTrout

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Statists? I don't participate in the govcare. I really don't care how big people are, what they smoke, how many of the latest covid snake injections they take blah blah blah. Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone.
 

dudmuck

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In another thread, statists are proposing that we crack down on welfare recipients, and do more to make sure they spend the money as we'd like. The rationale being, more or less, "why should I pay for their bad habits?".

With momentum growing for making health care a government responsibility, that argument has some "interesting" implications. If healthcare is financed with "your" tax dollars, why should you pay for someone else's poor health habits? Should there be restrictions on the diet and health habits of people who use the system?

Why should you have to pay for all the healthcare problems caused by overeating and gluttony?

Why should you have to pay for the healthcare of people who engage in risky sports?

Why should you have to pay for treatment of sexually transmitted diseases?

Why should you have to pay for all the health problems associated with drug and alcohol abuse?

More importantly, how should we deal with people who try to abuse the health care system in this way?
You already pay for that stuff with private health insurance.
Plus extra for insurance company overhead and profits.
 
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dblack

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You already pay for that stuff with private health insurance.
Plus extra for insurance company overhead and profits.
Mkay - and how do you answer the questions in the OP? Do you think restrictions should be imposed so people don't abuse the system?
 

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