Stalin, Communism and the left wing

[bripat9643]

Liberals refuse to admit thier utopian dream is a authoritarian nightmare

Tapatalk

Are you talking Communism? That would be Communists not admitting, most liberals are not Communists.

Really? How are liberals not communists? What plank of the Communist manifesto do they not agree with? What liberals don't justify their views with anti-capitalist,anti-rich rhetoric?

If you don't know, don't be surprised when people think that you're talking rubbish.

I mean, we're talking about different types of left wing and right wing here and you don't know the difference between a Communist and a plain Liberal.

Jeez, I'm not teaching you this stuff, go figure it out and then come back.

What's the difference between a communist and a "plain liberal?"

 

[frigidweirdo]

If you're a Conservative, the first person that comes to mind when you think of Individual Liberty and limited federal government is it Thomas Jefferson; if you're a Progressive, that first person is Josef Stalin

They've been arguing Stalin is a conservative. Explains a lot of posts, doesn't it? They think a Marxist is conservative, wow.

Stalin was a Marxist? Hardly.

Right. Stalin was all about individual liberty and limited govenment

You're trying to make out the right are all about individual liberty and limited govt huh?

Wait, Bush increased federal spending from $1.7 trillion to $3.5 trillion. More than double.

Reagan saw spending go from $504 billion to $1,140 billion. More than double.

Bush H saw that rise to $1,400 billion.

Nixon and Ford saw the federal budget go from $183 billion to $409 billion.

Holy what are you talking about smaller government for? Each Republican block of presidents for at least the last 45 years has more than DOUBLED the federal budget in their time. Reagan and Bush almost tripled it in 12 years.

As for individual liberty, people have more liberty now than before because of the right? Sure, they were at the forefront of the Civil rights movement, and are at the forefront of the gay marriage fight, and they've stopped wars which allow govts to impose things like the Patriot act.

Er.... I smell a bull going to the toilet.

 

[frigidweirdo]

If you're a Conservative, the first person that comes to mind when you think of Individual Liberty and limited federal government is it Thomas Jefferson; if you're a Progressive, that first person is Josef Stalin

They've been arguing Stalin is a conservative. Explains a lot of posts, doesn't it? They think a Marxist is conservative, wow.

Stalin was a Marxist? Hardly.

Stalin says he was a Marxist, and so did the rest of the Communist party in the Soviet Union.

And North Korea says it's Democratic, as does the Democratic Republic of Congo, as did East Germany.

China says it's the "People's Republic" when it clearly isn't.

What's your point? Politicians lie?

 

[kaz]

too stupid!! the word can have a different meaning at any time and in any country.

so you can compare communist "conservative" to American "conservative" when they are based on completely different standards?

Conservatism and liberalism are personality traits, tendencies and the manifestation of upbringing. There are even physical differences in the brain.

The lack of self awareness in conservatives is alarming...

HERE is what ULTRA-conservatism looks like..

That's what radical Islam looks like, which is a lot like liberalism since to wants to control your entire life.

Well, sure, Radical Islam controls the social and fiscal aspects of everyone's lives like the Marxist Democrats want to do. But more importantly, Radical Islam doesn't pay for abortions and birth control, so if you think about it, they really are like conservatives, not liberals. No?

Radical Islam outlaws birth control and abortion. I don't know many conservatives who support that.

Hi Brian, you need to click the needle on your sarcasm detector, it's stuck.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What's the difference between a communist and a "plain liberal?"

Er... Communists want Communism, and plain liberals don't. That could be it. Don't you think?

 

[bripat9643]

If you're a Conservative, the first person that comes to mind when you think of Individual Liberty and limited federal government is it Thomas Jefferson; if you're a Progressive, that first person is Josef Stalin

They've been arguing Stalin is a conservative. Explains a lot of posts, doesn't it? They think a Marxist is conservative, wow.

Stalin was a Marxist? Hardly.

Stalin says he was a Marxist, and so did the rest of the Communist party in the Soviet Union.

And North Korea says it's Democratic, as does the Democratic Republic of Congo, as did East Germany.

China says it's the "People's Republic" when it clearly isn't.

What's your point? Politicians lie?

If you can't believe them, then who can you believe? I certainly see no reason to take the word of a bunch of forum commies.

 

[bripat9643]

What's the difference between a communist and a "plain liberal?"

Er... Communists want Communism, and plain liberals don't. That could be it. Don't you think?

It sure appears to me that liberals want communism. Go to the CPUSA website and tell me one thing on their agenda that liberals don't agree with.

 

[frigidweirdo]

If you're a Conservative, the first person that comes to mind when you think of Individual Liberty and limited federal government is it Thomas Jefferson; if you're a Progressive, that first person is Josef Stalin

They've been arguing Stalin is a conservative. Explains a lot of posts, doesn't it? They think a Marxist is conservative, wow.

Stalin was a Marxist? Hardly.

Again, communist manifesto? You need to do more reading.

Not really. I'm not saying Stalin wasn't in charge of a state that was attempting to move towards Communism. I'm saying the guy himself wasn't a Communist.

The Principles of Communism

"Above all, it will have to take the control of industry and of all branches of production out of the hands of mutually competing individuals, and instead institute a system in which all these branches of production are operated by society as a whole – that is, for the common account, according to a common plan, and with the participation of all members of society."

The USSR had industry under the control of the govt. Were they operated by "society as a whole"? I'd say no. It was govt control, not the control of the people. Did all people participate? Was there a "common plan"? It's all about how you interpret this. I would say seeing as the Party elite managed to do a lot better out of this than the general worker, and it often didn't work for those in the factories, I'm saying no.

"Communists know only too well that all conspiracies are not only useless, but even harmful. They know all too well that revolutions are not made intentionally and arbitrarily, but that, everywhere and always, they have been the necessary consequence of conditions which were wholly independent of the will and direction of individual parties and entire classes."

Well Communism was made intentionally and arbitrarily in the USSR. Was it Communism? Not really.

"In all probability, the proletarian revolution will transform existing society gradually and will be able to abolish private property only when the means of production are available in sufficient quantity."

Was private property removed once there was sufficient quantity? Clearly not. There was major shortage of most things for the whole time the USSR was in existence

From the Communist Manifesto

"Communism deprives no man of the power to appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of others by means of such appropriation."

But this is exactly what Stalin was doing, he was subjugating labor.

"When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organised power of one class for oppressing another."

As if they foresaw Stalin.

The problem is that Stalin appeared more to be using Communism, which had been set up by Lenin and others, as a basis for his power, rather than being ideologically Communist and committed to Communism. I'm not saying he was anti-Communist, just that he wasn't Communist.

Khrushchev had a policy of "de-Stalinization", says a lot about what was thought of Stalin as a Communist really.

"On the Cult of Personality and Its Consequences" speech was because Stalin had made himself the cult, rather than Communism. Just as Mao did in China.
.

 

[frigidweirdo]

If you can't believe them, then who can you believe? I certainly see no reason to take the word of a bunch of forum commies.

Do you believe someone when they tell you something that is clearly not true? Who can you believe? Hardly anyone, especially not politicians.

You say you see no reason to take the word of a bunch of commies, so why would you believe Stalin when he says he was a Communist?

 

[Political Junky]

This Mao?

What Mao Zedong said about liberalism

"Liberalism is extremely harmful in a revolutionary collective. It is a corrosive which eats away unity, undermines cohesion, causes apathy and creates dissension.

It robs the revolutionary ranks of compact organization and strict discipline, prevents policies from being carried through and alienates the Party organizations from the masses which the Party leads."
Combat Liberalism



This Stalin?

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

I don't see anything contradictory in a communist attacking liberalism. Do you?

As for Stalin being a conservative....the dateline says 1927. Their perspective might be a little....um....premature.

There were 2 factions of the communist party in Russia. Stalin led the right wing camp and Trotsky led the left wing camp.

The Soviet Union officially abandoned socialism in 1921 when Lenin instituted the New Economic Policy allowing for taxation, local trade, some state capitalism... and extreme profiteering.

What I find amazing is that conservatives in America are totally unaware that conservatism exists in ALL societies.

"Liberalism is a disease of the mind that weakens and corrupts human beings." Adolf Hitler, 1939

 

[frigidweirdo]

What's the difference between a communist and a "plain liberal?"

Er... Communists want Communism, and plain liberals don't. That could be it. Don't you think?

It sure appears to me that liberals want communism. Go to the CPUSA website and tell me one thing on their agenda that liberals don't agree with.

Well maybe they're Communists. I've met Communists before, one guy got in a huff and left because I compared Franco with Stalin. I'm liberal and I hate Communism.

 

[bripat9643]

If you can't believe them, then who can you believe? I certainly see no reason to take the word of a bunch of forum commies.

Do you believe someone when they tell you something that is clearly not true? Who can you believe? Hardly anyone, especially not politicians.

You say you see no reason to take the word of a bunch of commies, so why would you believe Stalin when he says he was a Communist?

When someone says that Stalin was a conservative, anyone can see that is clearly not true. I believe Stalin because all the evidence indicates he was a commie. For one thing, he was a member of the communist party almost his entire life.

 

[bripat9643]

What's the difference between a communist and a "plain liberal?"

Er... Communists want Communism, and plain liberals don't. That could be it. Don't you think?

It sure appears to me that liberals want communism. Go to the CPUSA website and tell me one thing on their agenda that liberals don't agree with.

Well maybe they're Communists. I've met Communists before, one guy got in a huff and left because I compared Franco with Stalin. I'm liberal and I hate Communism.

Sure you do.

 

[frigidweirdo]

When someone says that Stalin was a conservative, anyone can see that is clearly not true. I believe Stalin because all the evidence indicates he was a commie. For one thing, he was a member of the communist party almost his entire life.

Sort of like saying Hitler was left wing, right?

I'm not saying Stalin was a Conservative. I could accept there are parts of what he did that are right wing, but not conservative. Conservative is right wing, but right wing isn't necessarily conservative.

 

[kaz]

If you're a Conservative, the first person that comes to mind when you think of Individual Liberty and limited federal government is it Thomas Jefferson; if you're a Progressive, that first person is Josef Stalin

They've been arguing Stalin is a conservative. Explains a lot of posts, doesn't it? They think a Marxist is conservative, wow.

Stalin was a Marxist? Hardly.

Again, communist manifesto? You need to do more reading.

Not really. I'm not saying Stalin wasn't in charge of a state that was attempting to move towards Communism. I'm saying the guy himself wasn't a Communist.

The Principles of Communism

"Above all, it will have to take the control of industry and of all branches of production out of the hands of mutually competing individuals, and instead institute a system in which all these branches of production are operated by society as a whole – that is, for the common account, according to a common plan, and with the participation of all members of society."

The USSR had industry under the control of the govt. Were they operated by "society as a whole"? I'd say no. It was govt control, not the control of the people. Did all people participate? Was there a "common plan"? It's all about how you interpret this. I would say seeing as the Party elite managed to do a lot better out of this than the general worker, and it often didn't work for those in the factories, I'm saying no.

"Communists know only too well that all conspiracies are not only useless, but even harmful. They know all too well that revolutions are not made intentionally and arbitrarily, but that, everywhere and always, they have been the necessary consequence of conditions which were wholly independent of the will and direction of individual parties and entire classes."

Well Communism was made intentionally and arbitrarily in the USSR. Was it Communism? Not really.

"In all probability, the proletarian revolution will transform existing society gradually and will be able to abolish private property only when the means of production are available in sufficient quantity."

Was private property removed once there was sufficient quantity? Clearly not. There was major shortage of most things for the whole time the USSR was in existence

From the Communist Manifesto

"Communism deprives no man of the power to appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of others by means of such appropriation."

But this is exactly what Stalin was doing, he was subjugating labor.

"When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organised power of one class for oppressing another."

As if they foresaw Stalin.

The problem is that Stalin appeared more to be using Communism, which had been set up by Lenin and others, as a basis for his power, rather than being ideologically Communist and committed to Communism. I'm not saying he was anti-Communist, just that he wasn't Communist.

Khrushchev had a policy of "de-Stalinization", says a lot about what was thought of Stalin as a Communist really.

"On the Cult of Personality and Its Consequences" speech was because Stalin had made himself the cult, rather than Communism. Just as Mao did in China.
.

Yes, communists subjugate labor and do other bad things. You have to stop going by the marketing literature. You know, like you do with the Democrats. Marxists are Marxists, Stalin, Mao, the Democratic party. The rest is a distinction without a difference.

 

[kaz]

When someone says that Stalin was a conservative, anyone can see that is clearly not true. I believe Stalin because all the evidence indicates he was a commie. For one thing, he was a member of the communist party almost his entire life.

Sort of like saying Hitler was left wing, right?

I'm not saying Stalin was a Conservative. I could accept there are parts of what he did that are right wing, but not conservative. Conservative is right wing, but right wing isn't necessarily conservative.

Stalin said he was a communist, Hitler said he was a socialist. To say Stalin knew what he was and Hitler knew what he was is the same. They were both authoritarian leftists and they both knew that. It is you who is confused.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes, communists subjugate labor and do other bad things. You have to stop going by the marketing literature. You know, like you do with the Democrats. Marxists are Marxists, Stalin, Mao, the Democratic party. The rest is a distinction without a difference.

What you need to realise is there is a big difference between Communism the theory and what people did claiming the name of Communism.

you were almost certainly brought up on a diet of how bad Communists were, just as kids today are being brought up on a diet of how bad Muslims are.

I read an article about a former British soldier who went to fight with the Kurds because he thinks ISIS is basically the worst thing in the world and needs to be fought. He probably doesn't have much experience with much else in the world, hasn't taken the time to consider what the US govt is up to with it's evil foreign policy of do whatever to make sure it gets what it wants.

in-cumbria Carlisle mum defends son s trip to fight Islamic State

What Stalin was, what you grew up with, was labelled Communism and I doubt very much you can get past this.

 

[frigidweirdo]

When someone says that Stalin was a conservative, anyone can see that is clearly not true. I believe Stalin because all the evidence indicates he was a commie. For one thing, he was a member of the communist party almost his entire life.

Sort of like saying Hitler was left wing, right?

I'm not saying Stalin was a Conservative. I could accept there are parts of what he did that are right wing, but not conservative. Conservative is right wing, but right wing isn't necessarily conservative.

Stalin said he was a communist, Hitler said he was a socialist. To say Stalin knew what he was and Hitler knew what he was is the same. They were both authoritarian leftists and they both knew that. It is you who is confused.

So you believe these guys? Hitler said Jews were bad people? I'm assuming you agree with him.

Hitler actually said he was a NATIONAL SOCIALIST, by the way.

 

[kaz]

What you need to realise is there is a big difference between Communism the theory and what people did claiming the name of Communism.

LOL, that's been my point to you, Skippy.

 

[kaz]

So you believe these guys? Hitler said Jews were bad people? I'm assuming you agree with him.

Authoritarian leftists always lie. You know, like Democrats saying they care about the common man. The common man, blacks, women, Hispanics, gays, apples with tongues, you are all manipulated by Democrats to advance their communist ideology. They don't give a shit about you. None of their policies help you, they foster dependency and control. Is the parallel to Stalinists and Nazis starting to occur to you yet?