Staggering climate contradiction - data that can be fudged says "warming," data that cannot be fudged says "no warming"

[Seymour Flops]

Very true.

There is also a corollary to that. There are Ideas that can be debated with facts and reason, warmists will not be there. Like this thread.

Where all that is presented is name-calling and repetitive lies, the warmists will be there. Like the threads in which they state an opinion as fact then and name call anyone who asks a question.

Donald H, I hate to seem like I'm picking on you, but your posts exemplify what I said above.

Climate Change: Global Sea Level

Global average sea level has risen 8-9 inches since 1880, and the rate is accelerating thanks to glacier and ice sheet melt.

www.climate.gov

That's not an argumetn, that is a link. If I posted three links for you to read, would I win? Would you read them, or would you expect me to tell you what's in the link and how it supports my position?

EMH posted a link, and then he explained why it was relevant and how it supported his argument. That's a high quality argument, in search of someone willing to debate it. But does EMH find that? Nope.

EMH was caught making up a lie by showing the sea level at the statue of liberty being the same 100 years apart. He forgot to take into account tides.

There can't be a discussion when the OP is operating at a child's level of understanding.

"EMH was caught making up a lie . . . " is not a debate, it's a personal attack.

Just out of curiosity, where is the sea level at the Statue of Liberty now, compared to when it was first built? At her ankles? Her knees? What?

Answer with evidence, please.

Then the demands in order for us to have the privilege of what you pass off as debate:

It's an average and that's because sea level rise isn't the same throughout the world. Do you understand the reason whyi?

I'm not interested in commenting on whether or not its very much. There will be a decent adult discussion here or I won't be taking part.

First I'll call on EMH to retract his lie so we can start clean.. That's not negotiable. If anybody wants to learn something then they will abide by my rules.

"They will abide by my rules," would be a good motto for the alarmist movement. That little European girl on the autism spectrum made the same demand. I'm a special educator, and that kind of behavior is typical of students on the spectrum.

But, again . . . demanding is not making an argument.

Then . . . another link:

Ocean temperature change since 1880.

Climate Change Indicators: Sea Surface Temperature | US EPA

This indicator describes global trends in sea surface temperature.

www.epa.gov

You actually offer a five word explanation of what the link is, which is five more than you said about the first one. So, I'll bite. I'll click on your link and assume that you vouch for everything in it, since you did not quote any of it.

Here is the first graph:

Based on your own graph, the difference between the lowest average global sea surface temparature and the highest between 1880 and 2020 is less than 2.5 degrees. What is your evidence that this difference is not explained by

a) changes in the measuring equipment
b) changes in the locations or times that the temperature data points were gathered,
c)a cyclic or non-cyclic warming trend unrelated to human activity,
or
d) some or all of the above?

Now, you have a chance to either answer with evidence or with insults.

Which will you choose?

 

[jackflash]

Let's start with ocean temps.

We all know the Co2 Fraud claims "warmest ever ocean temps" just about every year. If so, then hurricanes would be breaking out. But the strongest decade for canes is still the 1940s...

U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade

Just last summer was "warmest ever." But the cane season was a complete DUD, with just one Atlantic cane reaching Cat 5 for a total of about 15 hours. Water off FLA was called "warmest ever" yet two canes got near FLA and neither got to Cat 5. In 1938, a Cat 5 got to LONG ISLAND, like NEW YORK, a bit further north...

So here we have a classic "what can be fudged and what cannot." It is hard to "fudge" a cane, although cane strength can be "fudged" and in 2014 it was, at least with one "cat 5" that did ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE to Mexico when "it hit as a Cat 5."

It is easy to FUDGE a temperature chart. There is a complete contradiction with the claim of "warmest ever ocean temps" and NO BREAKOUT IN CANES....


from Google

1. The first condition is that ocean waters must be above 26 degrees Celsius (79 degrees Fahrenheit). Below this threshold temperature, hurricanes will not form


HELLO. If the average temp was RISING there would be MORE CANES. THERE ARE NOT MORE CANES.

Hence the claim of "ocean temp rise" is CONTRADICTED/REFUTED by Canes.

It isn't hard to figure out what is going on. The oceans are NOT WARMING and the CANES VALIDATE that claim.

The only "evidence" of "ocean warming" is 100% pure FUDGED FRAUD.




Ditto for "ocean rise." The Co2 FRAUD claims "ocean rise." If there was an ongoing net ice melt on planet Earth, oceans WOULD RISE. They AREN'T. Once again, what can be fudged "ocean rise charts" and what CANNOT BE FUDGED.... actual photos documenting NO OCEAN RISE....

Statue of Liberty
Hawaii 5-0 beach
Venice
Norfolk Naval Base


It is time to wake up and get a clue. The Co2 FRAUD is COMPLETE FRAUD, Planet Earth is NOT WARMING, and increasing atmospheric Co2 did NOT WARM ANYTHING....

From what I have read the Glow-Ball Kooling scare started 'roughly' in 1925 due to an interest in the previous ice age/mini ice ages. The interest sputtered on & off through 1938 & ended when Germany invaded Poland. Once WW2 broke out in Dec. of 1941 the interest in ice ages went cold & did so right through the Korean conflict & well into the mid to latter 50's. During some time(can't remember the quarter) during my senior year(1969-1970) @ Lewis & Clark high school in Spokane I 'FIRST' heard of the terms global cooling & the "coming ice age". I had to drop out of my Junior year(1968) @ Oregon City high school only two weeks into the school year & did not get back into school until the end of January 1969 when I reached Spokane.

The reason for the history lesson above can be found in the following; If another ice age had truly been upon global humanity we would have known it years in ADVANCE INSTEAD OF ONLY A YEAR OR SO "BEFORE THE EPA CAME INTO EXSISTENCE". We were in a farming community back in the mid to latter 60's in Oregon so most certainly we would have known of such an impending calamity as farmers PRODUCE THE ALL IMPORTENT FOOD HUMANITY SURVIVES UPON. No mention of it in my freshman class(1966-1967) nor my sophomore class'67-'68. Sure I missed the better part of my junior year but still managed to get the last four months in, & again no mention of global cooling let alone an ice age coming our way. In my senior year we are bombarded with ice age mania, only 13 MONTHS BEFORE THE EPA CAME ON LINE. Does this sound fishy to U on the g'ments part????

United States Environmental Protection Agency - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[EMH]

Climate Change: Global Sea Level

Global average sea level has risen 8-9 inches since 1880, and the rate is accelerating thanks to glacier and ice sheet melt.

www.climate.gov

We're still waiting for a PHOTO of such ocean rise...

because the PHOTOS all show NO OCEAN RISE.

That which can be fudged vs that which cannot...

 

[EMH]

That is not very much to gain. Also it is at Hawaii.

You have ZERO EVIDENCE that Hawaii is sinking. ZERO.

Indeed, you have ZERO EVIDENCE that Hawaii has warmed at all in the past century, ZERO.

 

[EMH]

If another ice age

Ice ages are continent specific. Antarctica and Greenland are ice ages. An ice age on Earth starts when the land tectonically moves to within 600 miles of a pole, where the annual snowfall ceases to fully melt in the "summer" and then starts to stack. Stack for 1-2 million years = Greenland, 40 million - Antarctica.

 

[EMH]

Donald H, I hate to seem like I'm picking on you, but your posts exemplify what I said above.

That's not an argumetn, that is a link. If I posted three links for you to read, would I win? Would you read them, or would you expect me to tell you what's in the link and how it supports my position?

EMH posted a link, and then he explained why it was relevant and how it supported his argument. That's a high quality argument, in search of someone willing to debate it. But does EMH find that? Nope.


"EMH was caught making up a lie . . . " is not a debate, it's a personal attack.

Just out of curiosity, where is the sea level at the Statue of Liberty now, compared to when it was first built? At her ankles? Her knees? What?

Answer with evidence, please.

Then the demands in order for us to have the privilege of what you pass off as debate:


"They will abide by my rules," would be a good motto for the alarmist movement. That little European girl on the autism spectrum made the same demand. I'm a special educator, and that kind of behavior is typical of students on the spectrum.

But, again . . . demanding is not making an argument.

Then . . . another link:


You actually offer a five word explanation of what the link is, which is five more than you said about the first one. So, I'll bite. I'll click on your link and assume that you vouch for everything in it, since you did not quote any of it.

Here is the first graph:

View attachment 922850

Based on your own graph, the difference between the lowest average global sea surface temparature and the highest between 1880 and 2020 is less than 2.5 degrees. What is your evidence that this difference is not explained by

a) changes in the measuring equipment
b) changes in the locations or times that the temperature data points were gathered,
c)a cyclic or non-cyclic warming trend unrelated to human activity,
or
d) some or all of the above?

Now, you have a chance to either answer with evidence or with insults.

Which will you choose?

and, of course, the question then becomes...


If the oceans really were warming as the Co2 Fraud claims...


WHY IS THERE NO BREAKOUT IN CANE ACTIVITY????

 

[Donald H]

We're still waiting for a PHOTO of such ocean rise...

because the PHOTOS all show NO OCEAN RISE.

That which can be fudged vs that which cannot...

You blew your credibility with the photos of the statue showing 100 years apart. Have someone else explain that for you.

 

[Seymour Flops]

You blew your credibility with the photos of the statue showing 100 years apart. Have someone else explain that for you.

Again, this is the kind of non-argument that you get from the climate alarmists.

Donald, when your position cannot be argued logically, is it not time to re-think your position?

 

[Robert W]

You have ZERO EVIDENCE that Hawaii is sinking. ZERO.

Indeed, you have ZERO EVIDENCE that Hawaii has warmed at all in the past century, ZERO.

That's right and it is why you never see me making those dumb claims.

 

[Robert W]

On of my ongoing points is that denialism, being purely political kookery, is now only pushed now by right-wing uber-fascist cranks. Denialism is a mandatory belief of that cult.

Thus, I thank the resident uber-fascist cranks here for jumping in to prove my point so conclusively. They're literally not capable of discussing the topic without melting down into various hysterical political conspiracy theories.

If right-wing politics vanished, denialism would instanlty vanish along with it, because it's pure politics.

If left-wing politics vanished, the science wouldn't change a bit, because it's actual science.

Show us other examples where Denialism is operating? Such as Denialism about Biden. There is a lot of that happening.
I first was trained in weather including climate when I was going to be a pilot of airplanes in 1980. Do you recall 1980? Nobody then was arguing the earth is warmer. They told us it was colder. Suddenly Al Gore who is still a massive user of energy told us the US was doomed. And you believed him then? Did you ask Gore why he is a massive user of energy?

 

[mamooth]

I first was trained in weather including climate when I was going to be a pilot of airplanes in 1980.

So you have zero training in climate science. We clearly understand that. Do you understand that?

Do you recall 1980?

Not being senile right now, of course I recall it well. That's why gaslighting won't work on me.

Nobody then was arguing the earth is warmer.

At that time, essentially every climate scientist was correctly saying the earth was warming. That fact is not debtable. They were right then, they're right now.

If someone told you scientists were predicting cooling, they lied to your face. Unless you love being lied to, you should demand they tell you why they lied to your face.

They told us it was colder.

Only your side was doing that. You've all been as wrong as it's possible to be for over 40 years running now, which is why the whole planet correctly classifies you as cult clowns.

Suddenly Al Gore

Gore Rule invoked, thread over.

Whenever someone starts raving about Gore, they forfeit the thread for their own side. Those who can talk about the issues, do. Those who can't, they deflect by screeching about Gore.

Thanks for playing, and we have some lovely parting gifts for you, including our USMB Home Game.

 

[Robert W]

So you have zero training in climate science. We clearly understand that. Do you understand that?


Not being senile right now, of course I recall it well. That's why gaslighting won't work on me.



At that time, essentially every climate scientist was correctly saying the earth was warming. That fact is not debtable. They were right then, they're right now.

If someone told you scientists were predicting cooling, they lied to your face. Unless you love being lied to, you should demand they tell you why they lied to your face.


Only your side was doing that. You've all been as wrong as it's possible to be for over 40 years running now, which is why the whole planet correctly classifies you as cult clowns.


Gore Rule invoked, thread over.

Whenever someone starts raving about Gore, they forfeit the thread for their own side. Those who can talk about the issues, do. Those who can't, they deflect by screeching about Gore.

Thanks for playing, and we have some lovely parting gifts for you, including our USMB Home Game.

Here is me: "I am not paralyzed by fear of climate.
Here is you: You are much more than afraid, you promote fear. I promote sanity.

 

[mamooth]

Here is me: "I am not paralyzed by fear of climate.

Wow. You couldn't run away fast enough after I called you out for making nonsense up.

You're an intellectual coward, and thus not worth anyone's time. That's a statement of fact, based on observation.

 

[Robert W]

Wow. You couldn't run away fast enough after I called you out for making nonsense up.

You're an intellectual coward, and thus not worth anyone's time. That's a statement of fact, based on observation.

You sell fear. You do not understand climate at all.

 

[Robert W]

Wow. You couldn't run away fast enough after I called you out for making nonsense up.

I am still here. Still using my 65 inch TV/Monitor. I do not recall you calling me up for making nonsense up because I only supply facts. If it is an opinion, I mention it is.

 

[2aguy]

Let's start with ocean temps.

We all know the Co2 Fraud claims "warmest ever ocean temps" just about every year. If so, then hurricanes would be breaking out. But the strongest decade for canes is still the 1940s...

U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade

Just last summer was "warmest ever." But the cane season was a complete DUD, with just one Atlantic cane reaching Cat 5 for a total of about 15 hours. Water off FLA was called "warmest ever" yet two canes got near FLA and neither got to Cat 5. In 1938, a Cat 5 got to LONG ISLAND, like NEW YORK, a bit further north...

So here we have a classic "what can be fudged and what cannot." It is hard to "fudge" a cane, although cane strength can be "fudged" and in 2014 it was, at least with one "cat 5" that did ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE to Mexico when "it hit as a Cat 5."

It is easy to FUDGE a temperature chart. There is a complete contradiction with the claim of "warmest ever ocean temps" and NO BREAKOUT IN CANES....


from Google

1. The first condition is that ocean waters must be above 26 degrees Celsius (79 degrees Fahrenheit). Below this threshold temperature, hurricanes will not form


HELLO. If the average temp was RISING there would be MORE CANES. THERE ARE NOT MORE CANES.

Hence the claim of "ocean temp rise" is CONTRADICTED/REFUTED by Canes.

It isn't hard to figure out what is going on. The oceans are NOT WARMING and the CANES VALIDATE that claim.

The only "evidence" of "ocean warming" is 100% pure FUDGED FRAUD.




Ditto for "ocean rise." The Co2 FRAUD claims "ocean rise." If there was an ongoing net ice melt on planet Earth, oceans WOULD RISE. They AREN'T. Once again, what can be fudged "ocean rise charts" and what CANNOT BE FUDGED.... actual photos documenting NO OCEAN RISE....

Statue of Liberty
Hawaii 5-0 beach
Venice
Norfolk Naval Base


It is time to wake up and get a clue. The Co2 FRAUD is COMPLETE FRAUD, Planet Earth is NOT WARMING, and increasing atmospheric Co2 did NOT WARM ANYTHING....

You just don't get it.....in 9 months temperatures in the Northern part of North America are going to drop 30-50 degrees....no crops will be able to grow, the ground could be covered in feet of snow......and then............global warming will happen and the temperatuers will go up 50-60 degrees leading to massive warming events.......

And this man made global action will happen every year....forever....

You guys just don't get it.......

 

[Robert W]

He does have a conflict of interest. Bust the Co2 FRAUD cold and he's out of job...

That's why he and Milloy and the other "skeptics" never get it right, and won't ask the questions...

Any honest media person with the courage to actually ask climate questions?

Apparently not. Not on Faux Not on RAV or OANN What questions will the media never ask? 1. Why does one Earth polar circle have 9+ times the ice of the other? 2. Why is there ice age glacier south of Arctic Circle on Greenland but no such ice age glacier north of Arctic Circle on Alaska...

www.usmessageboard.com

Most of the research done by Lindzen and other scientists he partnered with were about the Equator and not about ice.

 

[ReinyDays]

It's an average and that's because sea level rise isn't the same throughout the world. Do you understand the reason whyi?

No ... water seeks her own level ... in other words, sea level is a surface of equal gravitation potential ... where the force of gravity acting on the sea water is equal all around the globe ...

Pour boiling water into one end of a trough ... it will take a minute or two for the energy to spread out, but the water level will equalize within seconds ... just how fluids behave with gravity ... here's a scientific paper on the matter using satellite altimeters ... they give 3.0 mm/yr with 0.084 mm/yr/yr acceleration ... about 20 inch rise by Year 2100 ...

That's water only ... many places experiencing flooding are also enduring land subsidence, especially in Florida ... but that's a different environmental disaster ...

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

On of my ongoing points is that denialism, being purely political kookery, is now only pushed now by right-wing uber-fascist cranks. Denialism is a mandatory belief of that cult.

Thus, I thank the resident uber-fascist cranks here for jumping in to prove my point so conclusively. They're literally not capable of discussing the topic without melting down into various hysterical political conspiracy theories.

If right-wing politics vanished, denialism would instanlty vanish along with it, because it's pure politics.

If left-wing politics vanished, the science wouldn't change a bit, because it's actual science.

The Climate Cult has been caught fudging its data multiple times.

 

[ReinyDays]

The Climate Cult has been caught fudging its data multiple times.

... and still can't tease more than a single degree ... pathetic ... scare-d-cats gotta be scared I guess ..