Soviet Union collapse

[shoshi]

Why has China become superpower when the Soviet Union collapsed? I think two reasons. One China made up with America after the death of Mao. They made diplomatic and economic relations with America. Two China allows private sector. Much of the Chinese economy is private enterprise owned by private individuals or by international corporations. So it has grown greatly while Soviet economy failed. Maybe the Chinese are smarter than Russians? They saw communism doesn’t work and made needed reforms

 

[JGalt]

Why has China become superpower when the Soviet Union collapsed? I think two reasons. One China made up with America after the death of Mao. They made diplomatic and economic relations with America. Two China allows private sector. Much of the Chinese economy is private enterprise owned by private individuals or by international corporations. So it has grown greatly while Soviet economy failed. Maybe the Chinese are smarter than Russians? They saw communism doesn’t work and made needed reforms

Ok, except that China is far more communistic than Russia.

 

[shoshi]

Russia today or Sovie era?

 

[Votto]

Why has China become superpower when the Soviet Union collapsed? I think two reasons. One China made up with America after the death of Mao. They made diplomatic and economic relations with America. Two China allows private sector. Much of the Chinese economy is private enterprise owned by private individuals or by international corporations. So it has grown greatly while Soviet economy failed. Maybe the Chinese are smarter than Russians? They saw communism doesn’t work and made needed reforms

Yes, the Chinese swallowed their Marxist pride and embraced capitalism.

That is how much the desire world power and domination. The lust for power is eternal in human nature.

I assume if they succeed, that is world domination, they will once again do away with capitalism and let the peasants starve to death once again.

 

[shoshi]

As I said China allows private enterprise much more than Soviets ever did. I think that is one of the main reasons why China succeeded while Soviet economy failed

 

[BothWings]

Why has China become superpower when the Soviet Union collapsed? I think two reasons. One China made up with America after the death of Mao. They made diplomatic and economic relations with America. Two China allows private sector. Much of the Chinese economy is private enterprise owned by private individuals or by international corporations. So it has grown greatly while Soviet economy failed. Maybe the Chinese are smarter than Russians? They saw communism doesn’t work and made needed reforms

After Nixon opened the door to trade with China, western corporations profited from outsourcing. But so did China. Americans have money and LOTS of it goes to China and has been since 1970 or so. The Chinese economy has been slowly and steadily been growing for 50 years and few American politicians in that time have done anything but helped it happen (except Trump). NOW it's finally a superpower. And Trump is on the left's shit-list and hit-list for threatening their empire with his America-first policies. China is now getting both us and Russia to piss ourselves away over Ukraine....leaving China as intact and prosperous as ever. Being that China always had a general policy of non-involvement in the world, a proxy-war like this one is very effective for pulling strings on the world stage without firing a shot. The American and Russian economies will be in wheelchairs and China will be at the top of the heap.

 

[JGalt]

As I said China allows private enterprise much more than Soviets ever did. I think that is one of the main reasons why China succeeded while Soviet economy failed

China succeeded because a certain US President opened trade negotiations with them after the Vietnam War.
Then a second American President offered them a most favored trade nation status. Those were Nixon and Clinton.

 

[José]

Ok, expect that China is far more communistic than Russia.

China demolished one of the greatest, most pervasive myths of human history:

The idea that private ownership of the means of production (capitalism) is the only path to economic prosperity.

The label "chinese state capitalism" makes sense up to a certain point. You have the chinese state striving to minimize expenses and maximize profits just like a businessman, a capitalist would do.

But the expression is also a contradiction in terms.... if the property belongs to the state and is not privately owned it's not capitalism.

Anyway the myth that only capitalist societies can create prosperity was definitely debunked by China in the last 50, 60 years.

 

[shoshi]

China succeeded because a certain US President opened trade negotiations with them after the Vietnam War.
Then a second American President offered them a most favored trade nation status. Those were Nixon and Clinton.

Like I said China made nice with America and Moscow never did. That is a main reason for Chinese success

 

[shoshi]

Ok, expect that China is far more communistic than Russia.

China demolished one of the greatest, most pervasive myths of human history:

The idea that private ownership of the means of production (capitalism) is the only path to economic prosperity.

The label "chinese state capitalism" makes sense up to a certain point. You have the chinese state striving to minimize expenses and maximize profits just like a businessman, a capitalist would do.

But the expression is also a contradiction in terms.... if the property belongs to the state and is not privately owned it's not capitalism.

Anyway the myth that only capitalist societies can create prosperity was definitely debunked by China in the last 50, 60 years.

But much of the Chinese economy is private enterprise

 

[Votto]

China succeeded because a certain US President opened trade negotiations with them after the Vietnam War.
Then a second American President offered them a most favored trade nation status. Those were Nixon and Clinton.

I was talking about this the other day with someone

Looking back, I think Nixon may have been one of the most destructive Presidents in US history.

He woke the sleeping giant of China so that they could take over the world and buy off everyone in the US government, and Nixon helped get the US into fiat currency so the Swamp could run up a never-ending insurmountable debt that will someday destroy the Republic.

But the Left will never mention it. Why? Because they love Nixon for doing those two things. Trouble is, he had an "R" by his name and they impeached him for it, so they must pretend that everything he did and said was horrible.

It's just a game they play.

 

[Votto]

Ok, expect that China is far more communistic than Russia.

China demolished one of the greatest, most pervasive myths of human history:

The idea that private ownership of the means of production (capitalism) is the only path to economic prosperity.

The label "chinese state capitalism" makes sense up to a certain point. You have the chinese state striving to minimize expenses and maximize profits just like a businessman, a capitalist would do.

But the expression is also a contradiction in terms.... if the property belongs to the state and is not privately owned it's not capitalism.

Anyway the myth that only capitalist societies can create prosperity was definitely debunked by China in the last 50, 60 years.

Hitler showed China and the US the way to go.

There is no need not to let the experts run corporations because all that matters is the control of the corporations.

Let the experts run things for them

As Hitler said, "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?"

The Left has effectively taken over corporate America as evidence by their wokism.

 

[JGalt]

Like I said China made nice with America and Moscow never did. That is a main reason for Chinese success

Aside from a few cultural-exchange programs in the 80's, we never sought relations with Russia. The proxy war we're currently engaged in is proof of that.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

But much of the Chinese economy is private enterprise

Much of the Chinese economy is real estate speculation & that is imploding.

Inside The Ghost Cities Of China That Feel Like An Eerie, Futuristic Dystopia

China's rapid urbanization has backfired, leaving behind enormous — and uninhabited — cities.

allthatsinteresting.com

China doesn't have quite the robust economy they tell the world they have.

Real Estate Is China’s Biggest Economic Vulnerability - Geopolitical Futures

China’s real estate sector is one of its economy’s most important assets. Real estate has contributed considerably to China’s transition to a socialist

geopoliticalfutures.com

 

[José]

Originally posted by shoshi
But much of the Chinese economy is private enterprise

When you compare Xi Jinping's China to Mao Tse Tung's China you're absolutely, 100% correct.

I would be debating in bad faith or being childish if I said you're wrong.

But if you ever watched a speech, an interview with any economist who supports the market economy, free markets, etc... you surely noticed they are always linking poverty, underdevelopment to the number of state-owned companies a given country has.

Their mantra invariably goes like this:

"One of the main reasons Nigeria is poor is because the presence of the nigerian state in the country's economy is excessive, the state owns 150 enterprises."

"Mexico is part of the third world because the country has 200 state-owned businesses and interferes too much regulating the private sector."

"South Africa, Indonesia, Uzbekistan, etc, etc, etc..."

I'm sure you already listened to dozens of similar statements in speeches, interviews and debates about economic development if you are interested in this subject, shoshi.

But I have a question I'd like to ask those free market apologists:

I wonder how those economists explain the chinese economic miracle since the country possesses 6.000 companies (!!!!) that belong to the chinese state that represent the lion's share of the chinese GDP and interferes in the rest of the economy in a massive way.

Hardly an example of the capitalist society those economists point as the only way to economic development, despite your legimate claim that 21th century China has a much larger private sector than Mao Tse Tung's China (which was nonexistent).

 

[shoshi]

My American friends tell me many Americans think TikTok is a communist party tool. So I looked into it. TikTok is privately owned. Chinese government has no stake in it. So no it’s not a tool for them. Word in the tech industry is that propaganda comes from Facebook and YouTube who compete with TikTok

 

[Votto]

Much of the Chinese economy is real estate speculation & that is imploding.

Inside The Ghost Cities Of China That Feel Like An Eerie, Futuristic Dystopia

China's rapid urbanization has backfired, leaving behind enormous — and uninhabited — cities.

allthatsinteresting.com

China doesn't have quite the robust economy they tell the world they have.

Real Estate Is China’s Biggest Economic Vulnerability - Geopolitical Futures

China’s real estate sector is one of its economy’s most important assets. Real estate has contributed considerably to China’s transition to a socialist

geopoliticalfutures.com

Are you calling your President Xi a liar?

Wait till I tell his minion Joe Biden.

He will soder you in your house like the Chinese do during lock downs.

 

[gipper]

China succeeded because a certain US President opened trade negotiations with them after the Vietnam War.
Then a second American President offered them a most favored trade nation status. Those were Nixon and Clinton.

It was a bit more than that. Our capitalist class with help from American politicians moved our manufacturing base to China and Mexico.

Yet another example of how the ruling class has effectively screwed American workers, but no seems to care.

All this while our southern border is open allowing in lots of unskilled labor to further screw the American worker.

What a great country!

 

[JGalt]

It was a bit more than that. Our capitalist class with help from American politicians moved our manufacturing base to China and Mexico.

Yet another example of how the ruling class has effectively screwed American workers, but no seems to care.

All this while our southern border is open allowing in lots of unskilled labor to further screw the American worker.

What a great country!

That went both ways. The manufacturing companies and their owners were also being screwed by constant threats of strikes from labor unions, to increase wages and benefits. In addition, there were burdensome federal regulations, and frivolous lawsuits they constantly had to contend with. In order to keep the cost of manufactured goods affordable to the public while maintaining their profit margin, companies had no alternative except to outsource the manufacturing operations to foreign countries, where government regulations and labor unions were not problems.

This is why your average middle-income working-class Joe can walk into a Walmart and purchase things that would have been previously reserved for upper-income folks. Come on, now. Don't you enjoy that low-cost big screen TV, oven range, and computer you own? Just imagine how much more they would have cost if the price of some union boss' pension and slush fund was included, not to mention the price of complying with all the bullshit government regulations.

It is a great country, indeed.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Yes, the Chinese swallowed their Marxist pride and embraced capitalism.

That is how much the desire world power and domination. The lust for power is eternal in human nature.

I assume if they succeed, that is world domination, they will once again do away with capitalism and let the peasants starve to death once again.

They bought businesses from us.....how many did they actually create