Soviet Union collapse

[Zincwarrior]

Why has China become superpower when the Soviet Union collapsed? I think two reasons. One China made up with America after the death of Mao. They made diplomatic and economic relations with America. Two China allows private sector. Much of the Chinese economy is private enterprise owned by private individuals or by international corporations. So it has grown greatly while Soviet economy failed. Maybe the Chinese are smarter than Russians? They saw communism doesn’t work and made needed reforms

USSR failed because of economics, Afghanistan, and Chernobyl. China is now a Fascist State.*

* Real definition, not what you call each other.

 

[Votto]

They bought businesses from us.....how many did they actually create

With the Chinese sending Fentanyl pouring into the US, they have created a lot of undertaker jobs and repo men.

 

[gipper]

That went both ways. The manufacturing companies and their owners were also being screwed by constant threats of strikes from labor unions, to increase wages and benefits. In addition, there were burdensome federal regulations, and frivolous lawsuits they constantly had to contend with. In order to keep the cost of manufactured goods affordable to the public while maintaining their profit margin, companies had no alternative except to outsource the manufacturing operations to foreign countries, where government regulations and labor unions were not problems.

This is why your average middle-income working-class Joe can walk into a Walmart and purchase things that would have been previously reserved for upper-income folks. Come on, now. Don't you enjoy that low-cost big screen TV, oven range, and computer you own? Just imagine how much more they would have cost if the price of some union boss' pension and slush fund was included, not to mention the price of complying with all the bullshit government regulations.

It is a great country, indeed.

I can’t agree with much of that. Workers have been systematically screwed for decades. Unions have been decimated for decades. Workers have little job protections. Secondly, wages have been stagnant in the US for decades. Thirdly, regulators aren’t a problem for capitalists or employers. Regulators are bought. Fourthly, frivolous lawsuits are mostly a fallacy.

 

[odanny]

As I said China allows private enterprise much more than Soviets ever did. I think that is one of the main reasons why China succeeded while Soviet economy failed

As long as you don't get too independent. Jack Ma got a little too big and the Chinese made him disappear for a while. He came back a changed man, probably "re-educated."

 

[shoshi]

The Soviet economy collapsed under a failed system. China was smart enough to avoid that. They avoided it by reforming the system and making nice with America. That is what I was saying

 

[Road Runner]

I'm not exactly sure of how to respond to the OP except it wasn't Russia that sent a spy balloon.

 

[shoshi]

I'm not exactly sure of how to respond to the OP except it wasn't Russia that sent a spy balloon.

I was theorizing about how China made a socialist system work while Soviet Union failed. I have two reasons I believe are the reasons

 

[Kruska]

Why has China become superpower when the Soviet Union collapsed? I think two reasons. One China made up with America after the death of Mao. They made diplomatic and economic relations with America. Two China allows private sector. Much of the Chinese economy is private enterprise owned by private individuals or by international corporations. So it has grown greatly while Soviet economy failed. Maybe the Chinese are smarter than Russians? They saw communism doesn’t work and made needed reforms

The Soviet Union's collapse has nothing to do with China's rise.
The USSR was never an economic superpower - only a military superpower - mostly due to its' nukes. Communism doesn't work - so the USSR economy was destined to fail.

China?
Simple mathematics - what happens if capitalism is introduced towards a market/country with 1.4 Billion people - who are known to be thrifty businessmen since 2000 years? This happened in 1980 approximately 10 years before the USSR collapsed. - a Monetary Explosion of unprecedented volume. In other words, what took the USA or e.g. Germany a 150 years, took China less then 40 years.

Till today China is nowhere near the per/capita income of e.g. USA or Germany. So calculate their GDP onto an equivalent per/capita based on 1.4 billion people. Theoretically an unstoppable never before in human history ever existing economic Super, Super Power, in likely 25 to 30 years.

Foreign investment and technology transfer:
Initially (first 10 years) almost solely conducted by Oversea Chinese - and Chinese from Taiwan. From 1988 till 1995 Japanese investment and technology transfer came in. By 1995 the EU and the
USA started to recognize the now already available economic platform that Deng Xiaoping had created from 1980 onward.

The USA and e.g. Germany had castrated their own economic cycle via constantly increasing company profits and it's owners and management getting richer and richer, and prices for goods constantly increasing, whilst ignoring or rather suppressing the income cycle of it's workers and employees. Logically if the workers and employees don't get enough $ they can't participate accordingly in the increase of consumer spending. The Western political action was very simple and unified - let's take up debts in order to artificially increase consumer spending aka increase the GDP growth artificially.

Cooperate greed and political incompetence in Western countries - did not lead towards an increase of peoples income, thus not allowing for goods Made in USA or Made in Germany to be increased or at least to be held on the production basis/ratio of 1990. Instead Western-Importers from 1990 onward realized their own economic super chances - thus enhancing China's industry output and workforce hugely.

From 1980 - 2000 the EU countries and the USA population started to appreciate "cheap goods" from China but mostly stayed within their personal financial frame, Very unlike the USA where consumer spending was getting more and more out of hand to factual income - but personal debt making became absolute fashionable - the American way of life.

Therefore from 1995 onward, US and EU based manufacturers lost out to competition from China increasingly. Instead of raising incomes and invest into their own countries - everyone started to run to China - totally brainless and ignorant towards the Asian and Chinese business mindset (the vast majority of US and EU companies in China never made profit until today). Only those US and EU companies directing their investment towards the China market made it and are still around. Those having invested to compensate/divert their own home production and demand - booom, and in vast majority having been taken over by Chinese investors - thus again adding hugely to technology transfer.

Back to Russia: No overseas Russians were willing to invest into a total chaotic new Russia. Controlled by non state and state run Mafia organizations and becoming the present day Oligarchs.
US and EU investment only really started to come in from 2000 onward, due to to a strong hand ruling Russia - Putin. At the same time Western investment in Russia was in contradiction to the EU and foremost NATO policy towards expansion (the latter two aiming at controlling, partially destabilizing Russia's economic influence - as such it's growth). According to the US and EU logic - more $ for Russia might result in Russia spending more $ towards it's military.

China never had such intentions towards Russia and was therefore able to drastically improve it's political and economic relationship with Russia. Putin was initially no big friend of China, he was actually quite "pissed off" at e.g. China's attempts towards technology transfer in regards to military matters and it's considerable economic influence in the Russia/China border areas.

However thanks to NATO's "games" in regards to Georgia, Moldavia, Ukraine and some other Russia neighboring countries - he found it best for Russia to align with China and work out issues in a way, so that both sides profit from each other - most warmly welcomed by China. E.g. okay we buy Chinese products - you guys buy more natural resources - instituted way before the Ukraine crisis.

 

[Kruska]

As long as you don't get too independent. Jack Ma got a little too big and the Chinese made him disappear for a while. He came back a changed man, probably "re-educated."

That's the core principle of Fascism - the ruling government/party does not allow for "outside" money to take influence onto politics. Ma got filthy rich- thanks to his own ideas and the CPC's economic/political policy. And then tried to gain political leverage and influence via his $. - bad move and quite stupid actually.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why has China become superpower when the Soviet Union collapsed? I think two reasons. One China made up with America after the death of Mao. They made diplomatic and economic relations with America. Two China allows private sector. Much of the Chinese economy is private enterprise owned by private individuals or by international corporations. So it has grown greatly while Soviet economy failed. Maybe the Chinese are smarter than Russians? They saw communism doesn’t work and made needed reforms

The difference is that China opened up to capitalism. China survived Mao's era because it was poor and the people could survive being poor.
China didn't survive because of the US (except for the US winning the war in the Pacific perhaps).
China might not survive in the future as a CCP run country, or it might. Who knows? There are certainly some worrying things happening in China with debt, a lack of children, an aging population etc. But the CCP is doing things differently and nobody knows if it'll work or not.

 

[Fueri]

Free Trade was/is a scam, perpetrated by the wealthy to get more wealthy, at the expense of everyone else.

The latest push for increased globalization, under its many guises, is more of the same.

 

[braalian]

It was a bit more than that. Our capitalist class with help from American politicians moved our manufacturing base to China and Mexico.

Yet another example of how the ruling class has effectively screwed American workers, but no seems to care.

All this while our southern border is open allowing in lots of unskilled labor to further screw the American worker.

What a great country!

I’ll agree with this to a certain point. But, still, even the poorest American is better off than the average Mexican or (to a lesser extent) the average Chinese person.

 

[gipper]

I’ll agree with this to a certain point. But, still, even the poorest American is better off than the average Mexican or (to a lesser extent) the average Chinese person.

True, but that’s not a standard we Americans should ever find exceptable.

 

[braalian]

True, but that’s not a standard we Americans should ever find exceptable.

My point was that if most of our manufacturing jobs moved to Latin America and Asia (and I agree they have), and if that was such a great loss, then why we do have a stronger economy and way higher standard of living than those countries?

Heck, manufacturing left Western Europe even before it did here, and they still have among the planet’s highest living standards.

Maybe losing grunt-level manufacturing jobs is just part of a maturing economy?

Soon, China’s manufacturing jobs will move to Africa or something. It’s inevitable.

 

[shoshi]

China has fast growing middle class. 400 million people irising out of poverty in 20 years time is economic miracle.

 

[braalian]

China has fast growing middle class. 400 million people irising out of poverty in 20 years time is economic miracle.

And the Soviet Union pulling more than 100 million peasants out of illiteracy and becoming the first nation to reach outer space could be called a miracle as well.

In both cases the road was miraculous but bloody.

 

[DudleySmith]

China didn't embrace free enterprise. International corporations are required to have a Red Chinese 'partner', a Cadre member, or they aren't allowed to sell anything there. All of those 'wealthy Chinese' you read about? they're all Cadre members, like Jack Ma, Hero of many a WSJ story. Their financial system is a shambles, corruption is almost total.

An average income of $4,000 isn't a country with a 'large middle class'.

Example:

Cities Lost in Limbo: Are China’s Ghost Cities Here to Stay?

uschinatoday.org

Their only draw is labor racketeering and lack of pollution controls. Of course that is what Wall Street admires about them in the first place.

How rich is the Chinese Communist Party?

China has the most dollar billionaires in the world, according to one rich list.

www.newsweek.com

These are all or nearly Cadre or their relatives. They have a lot of Hunter Bidens in their organizations.

China’s Parliament Is a Growing Billionaires’ Club (Published 2018)

The wealth of 153 of the richest members of the National People’s Congress and its advisory body rose to $650 billion last year — just below Switzerland’s annual economic output.

www.nytimes.com

 

[gipper]

My point was that if most of our manufacturing jobs moved to Latin America and Asia (and I agree they have), and if that was such a great loss, then why we do have a stronger economy and way higher standard of living than those countries?

Heck, manufacturing left Western Europe even before it did here, and they still have among the planet’s highest living standards.

Maybe losing grunt-level manufacturing jobs is just part of a maturing economy?

Soon, China’s manufacturing jobs will move to Africa or something. It’s inevitable.

I see your point, but I’m not sure your conclusion is correct. Japan, S. Korea, and Germany have very high living standards, but also possess a strong manufacturing sector.

Secondly, on what basis do you conclude our economy is stronger today than decades ago, when we were a manufacturing powerhouse? Many of those manufacturing jobs were high paying jobs, that didn’t require a college education.

 

[braalian]

Many of those manufacturing jobs were high paying jobs, that didn’t require a college education.

Good point, there isn’t really a solid middle class anymore.

 

[Litwin]

Maybe the Chinese are smarter than Russians?

not really, they have stronger institutes. still, : China's Economy is 60% Smaller Than We Thought