southern baptists only please

[strollingbones]

both my huband and i were raised as s. baps....i left at 12 the age of decision....he stayed till he was in his early or mid 20's. last night we are watching some show, where someone says, you must be reborn to be saved. (for non s. bap that means baptized and public confession of sins)

Matthew Chapter 28,verse 19, he said, "Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". The question before us is what was and is the action of that baptism commanded by Christ and his apostles. The Bible clearly describes the action of Christian baptism as a burial in water, for baptism is a likeness to the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Why Be Baptized?

all hell broke loose....he says....all you must do to go to heaven is believe in jesus....

i told him he was full of shit....that one MUST BE born again to be saved. one must also accept the concept of the holy trinity....so all you other s. baps...which side do you fall on.

just have to believe in jesus

or rebirth by baptism

the main reason i am so pissed is he tosses up the fact he was a s. bap a lot longer and his father is a s. bap minister, so he knows.

 

[Agnapostate]

I have several points of dispute with your source.

Jesus shed his precious blood in his death and as penitent believers in Christ we contact his saving blood by going through a likeness to his death, his burial, and his resurrection. Listen to the Apostle Paul's vivid description of baptism in Romans 6, verses 3 through 5. "Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection." Here the Bible clearly describes the baptism which was taught and practiced in the early church and which puts one "into Jesus Christ" as a burial.

It's perhaps better to interpret the baptism described herein in the metaphorical sense, just as the observation in 1 Corinthians 10:2 that "all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea" does not reflect a literal baptism into Moses on the part of the Israelites, but rather a metaphorical unity with him as their leader. The apostle Peter's statement in 1 Peter 3:21 that "[t]here is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." also indicates the same mention of baptism in a metaphorical sense rather than the literal sense of water baptism.

The only explicit mention or strong insinuation of water baptism being a necessary component of salvation is found in "curious places," as your source notes.

In Mark Chapter 16, verse 16, Jesus says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved". Therefore, one must be a believer in order to be a subject of baptism. In Acts Chapter 8, Philip instructed the eunuch who was reading in Isaiah Chapter 53. The eunuch wondered if the prophet was speaking of himself or another. Philip made it abundantly clear as he preached unto him Jesus. They came to a certain water and the eunuch says, "Here is water, what doth hinder me to be baptized?". At verse 37, Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest". And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God".

Mark 16:9-20 is a passage not present in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts of the New Testament (which are likely specifically Codices Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, if I recall correctly), as is the case with Acts 8:37, which indicates that both sections are later scribal alterations. This may reflect a deliberate intent to introduce a doctrine of water baptism being a necessary component of salvation that was not in the original New Testament, as seems to be the case with the explicit definition of the Trinity offered in the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7,8).

It's ultimately preferable to interpret water baptism as serving the function of a symbol of salvation rather than being a necessary component of it. After the apostle Peter's declaration in Acts 2:38 to "[r]epent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission if sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit," it should be noted that "those who gladly received his word were baptized," indicating that acceptance of Christ necessarily preceded water baptism. We can infer the same from Acts 22:16, specifically Paul's statement that Ananias had told him to "arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Grammatically, the mention of "calling on the name of the Lord" precedes "arise and be baptized."

 

[strollingbones]

after all that blah blah blah...what do you think..heaven without baptism or not?

 

[Agnapostate]

after all that blah blah blah...what do you think..heaven without baptism or not?

Nothing, because I'm an atheist.

But seriously, heaven without baptism as a necessary condition is the view with greater theological support.

 

[Smartt33]

both my huband and i were raised as s. baps....i left at 12 the age of decision....he stayed till he was in his early or mid 20's. last night we are watching some show, where someone says, you must be reborn to be saved. (for non s. bap that means baptized and public confession of sins)

Matthew Chapter 28,verse 19, he said, "Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". The question before us is what was and is the action of that baptism commanded by Christ and his apostles. The Bible clearly describes the action of Christian baptism as a burial in water, for baptism is a likeness to the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Why Be Baptized?

all hell broke loose....he says....all you must do to go to heaven is believe in jesus....

i told him he was full of shit....that one MUST BE born again to be saved. one must also accept the concept of the holy trinity....so all you other s. baps...which side do you fall on.

just have to believe in jesus

or rebirth by baptism

the main reason i am so pissed is he tosses up the fact he was a s. bap a lot longer and his father is a s. bap minister, so he knows.

Before I read any of the other posts, I want to respond. Being born again is not xomething that you can do. It is something that happens when one truly recognizes Jesus as the Savior and Lord, and realizes that man is a sinner needing to be forgiven in order to have that relationship with God that gives eternal life.

Being a Southern Baptist, Chrurch of Christ member, or any other religion is of no value in this process. It is all about a relationshipo with God in Christ. Being baptized does nothing more than tell fellow believers that you have trusted the Savior as your Lord.

Jesus said "you must be born again." He went on to tell what that means. One must study the Word in order to truly understand. Being born again is done by the Holy Spirit, and it is actually the only one true baptism. We don "do" it. We don't even know exactly when it happens or what actually happens in out spirit. However, the result is a changed and transformed life every time.

You don't have to understand the trinity to be saved. Most people don't understand it. In what they understand, they do believe.

 

[strollingbones]

does the prior poster really think i am reading that blue shit?

sorry..but i wont read it and i doubt many others will....black is the new blue

 

[Agnapostate]

You need stronger coffee, bones.

 

[RodISHI]

No she needs black print.

I'm not a southern baptist strollingbones. The Word is fairly straight forward and you know as well as most what it says. Heaven is God's throne anyone saying they will ascend to His throne is a no no but that sure does not stop them. You have these people that think I'll believe but I am only going to believe in the parts I wanna believe in.

Saved and heaven are two different talking points. This verse is very specific concerning the one who says they will ascend to God's throne.
Isaiah 14:13-14

 

[Toro]

after all that blah blah blah...what do you think..heaven without baptism or not?

Not.

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't get the question. You don't have to baptised to be saved.

But being baptised is indicative of your salvation....and an act of obedience, as Jesus tells us to be baptised.

But Jesus was saved before he was baptised..still he asked John to baptise him, as an act of obedience and outward declaration of his salvation. And Jesus didn't go around baptising people himself. The baptism is symbolic. But salvation, i.e., accepting Christ into your heart, is the only thing required to be saved. You can be saved...and not be able to be baptised for whatever reasons for a long time...and if you die you are still saved, regardless of whether you actually were baptised or not.

Is that what the discussion is about? Because I found the first post confusing. But this is pretty basic Baptist stuff.

 

[Smartt33]

does the prior poster really think i am reading that blue shit?

sorry..but i wont read it and i doubt many others will....black is the new blue

Just so you will know, I have eyes that need the assistence of larger print, and the blue helps me. If you are such a racist that even black print is all that is good enough, so be it.

I will continue to use blue, or red, or whatever color. You can miss some good points if you want to.

 

[AllieBaba]

Strolling, Baptists do NOT believe baptism is a sacrament. That is a Catholic thing. Baptism is just an act of obedience. Salvation occurs in the heart, not in the water.

 

[We Are They]

Strolling, Baptists do NOT believe baptism is a sacrament. That is a Catholic thing. Baptism is just an act of obedience. Salvation occurs in the heart, not in the water.

What happens if you pee in the water when you get baptized? Does it count?

And if Jesus is our savior, and he couldn't even save himself...

 

[strollingbones]

but allie....to be born again you must be baptized....

 

[RodISHI]

but allie....to be born again you must be baptized....

That is what the Word says. "Born again", search...


1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[Care4all]

when we are born, we are born of water....the mother's water breaks and plop, there you are....

when we are born again, we are born again of Spirit

 

[RodISHI]

when we are born, we are born of water....the mother's water breaks and plop, there you are....

when we are born again, we are born again of Spirit

Dang, here we all wanted to make it all complicated and you go messing that up.

 

[AllieBaba]

but allie....to be born again you must be baptized....

Wrong.

"It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith."

SYMBOLIZING FAITH.

"Being a church
ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper."

It's a church ordinance. To be a member of a Baptist church you must have been baptized...but to be saved you do not.

Baptism -- Baptist

Rom. 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

I don't see anything about baptism there.

Luke 23:39 “And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

The malefactor wasn't baptised.
Yet, for those who still insist on a case of someone being saved in the New Testament without baptism, all they have to do is turn to Cornelius in Acts 10.

Acts 10:44 “While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”


They've received the holy ghost PRIOR to baptism. They're saved already.

You're wrong, Strolling. I don't know where you got your information that according to sourthern baptists you have to be baptized to be saved, but it's wrong and a call to any baptist preacher will verify it. You must be baptised or have been baptised to be a church MEMBER...but not to be saved. It's wholly symbolic, and this is something that is re-iterated almost every Sunday in every single Baptist church I've ever attended.

 

[AllieBaba]

"The Way of Salvation. We believe that the Scriptures teach that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace;"
Southern Baptist Church Official Site
Wholly means only. And grace doesn't come from water.

 

[Agnapostate]

*gasp*

What's that you say about never agreeing with me again, Allie?