SOmeone Tell the Air Force this is same as doing nothing

[Daryl Hunt]

Why? 200-500 Mt is one warhead of "Poseidon" torpedo. Even in the pessimistic scenario the Russians will have "Belgorod" and "Khabarovsk" (with six Poseidons each) at the end of this year. It means only 12 Krakatoas. Plus one 3-7Gt Santorini eruption for all strategic warheads.
May be, it is seriouse in the time of peace, but after a full-scale nuclear exchange, you know, climate change will be the last thing that we should worry about.

In my Navy days I was on the crew of Fleet Ballistic Missile Submarine and later served as a Nuclear Weapons Officer. Pardon my blunt language, but you don't have a fucking clue about what you are discussing and leave it at that.

Ha! Its not about your experience. Its about your faith. You are an Environmentalist, aren't you? You believe in The Nuclear Winter, or The Global Warming, or Ozone Hole or any other environmentalistic eschatological nonsence not because of your real practical experience, but because of the environmentalistic propaganda.

Environmentalist? Man, you should pray they don't cancel the Olympics with that leap, you are a shoe-in for any team.

I know what happens when you take your numbers and multiply them by the entire nuclear inventories of the nuclear powers. Once you go nuclear, why stop?

I can see you have lost your argument, now is the time to slink off into obscurity.

Oh, man... Why anybody should equate 0,5 Mt airburst with 200Mt groundburst? It is stupid.
And even if we do so, 200 Gt is just something like Toba super-erruption. And, according the new studies there were no significant cooling after it.

Toba catastrophe theory - Wikipedia

Physical data contradicting the winter hypothesis
In 2013, archaeologists, led by Christine Lane, reported finding a microscopic layer of glassy volcanic ash in sediments of Lake Malawi, and definitively linked the ash to the 75,000-year-old Toba super-eruption, but found no change in fossil type close to the ash layer, something that would be expected following a severe volcanic winter. They concluded that the largest known volcanic eruption in the history of the human species did not significantly alter the climate of East Africa,[23][24] attracting criticism from Richard Roberts.[25] Lane explained, "We examined smear slides at a 2-mm interval, corresponding to subdecadal resolution, and X-ray fluorescence scans run at 200-µm intervals correspond to subannual resolution. We observed no obvious change in sediment composition or Fe/Ti ratio, suggesting that no thermally driven overturn of the water column occurred following the Toba supereruption."[26] In 2015, a new study on the climate of East Africa supported Lane's conclusion, that there was "no significant cooling associated with Mount Toba".[27]

One nuke does not equal one volcano. The problem with your thinking is scale. Reassess your data for a massive world-wide nuclear strike. Too bad you apparently suck at math.

The Mt. St. Helens Volcano eruption affected everyone for hundreds of miles. I am well over 1000 miles from it yet it was messing up our weather and air quality here.

The old SAC rule of thumb for the start of a Nuclear Winter was setting off at least 12 5mt Nuclear Warheads in selective locations. That's the bad news. The good news is, the Warheads are now in KTs because they can hit within a mile or less of their intended target. The 5 to 10MT was under the assumption that you could only hit within 10 miles or more. The throw weight is a fraction and that means it would take one hell of a lot more to cause a decade lasting Nuclear Winter. Now, if we had 5 major Volcanic Eruptions strategically placed around the world, then a short Nuclear Winter could happen. If 10 were to go then you just hit the decade long Nuclear Winter affects.

There are many reasons why the Throw weight was drastically reduced. But if you set enough of those off (3000 or more) get ready for some really, really bad air and it forces Humans to adapt. And let's face it, Humans won out because we are the most adaptable species.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

See Krakatoa.

So what? There was an erruption in 1883 with total energy 100-200 Mt. There was a cold year after it, but not so cold as 1816. Human civilisation was not terminated, was not even significally harmed.

Now, multiply that by a factor of a thousand.

Why? 200-500 Mt is one warhead of "Poseidon" torpedo. Even in the pessimistic scenario the Russians will have "Belgorod" and "Khabarovsk" (with six Poseidons each) at the end of this year. It means only 12 Krakatoas. Plus one 3-7Gt Santorini eruption for all strategic warheads.
May be, it is seriouse in the time of peace, but after a full-scale nuclear exchange, you know, climate change will be the last thing that we should worry about.

In my Navy days I was on the crew of Fleet Ballistic Missile Submarine and later served as a Nuclear Weapons Officer. Pardon my blunt language, but you don't have a fucking clue about what you are discussing and leave it at that.

Ha! Its not about your experience. Its about your faith. You are an Environmentalist, aren't you? You believe in The Nuclear Winter, or The Global Warming, or Ozone Hole or any other environmentalistic eschatological nonsence not because of your real practical experience, but because of the environmentalistic propaganda.

So you don't believe the Ozone Layer was being harmed. In my lifetime, I have seen it get mighty sparse and then recover just by man no longer contributing to it's decline. The worst Ozone Layer disaster was when the Soviets fired off the Tsar Bomb. It was the largest Nuclear warhead ever fired. It's blew a huge hole in the Ozone Layer for hundreds of Miles. Nothing could grow for many years there. People living there developed a high degree of various Cancers, birth defects and other ailments. The Soviets had to, effectively, shut down any use of that region. Today, the Ozone layer is almost completely healed in that region and people have moved back into it. The Soviets claimed it was a 100MT yield but it was actually "Only" 50MT. At one time, we have 10 MT warheads (and so did the Soviets) on our missiles.

Those of us that are from the Military Nuclear Forces are much more aware of what would happen and we are less likely to shake our fists and push that button.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

According to Defense News, Air Force units will now head to the hills at the first sign of war, dispersing from their massive bases to local airports, isolated airstrips, any place that can support airplanes. The idea is to use those large bases not to concentrate air power but as a hub to feed dispersed air power, maintaining a steady flow of fuel, ammunition, and food to small detachments of fighters and other warplanes hiding at airfields adversaries may not even know about. U.S. Air Force Air Bases | Why Big Air Bases Are a Big Liability
The first sign of war will be these giant Airbases all burning at once. Speed of missiles these days fired from subs this must have Chinese laughing their ass off

from what I've read, though it is true that our enemies can strike us so quickly we would NOT be able to prevent mass destruction and death......AFTER the US was incinerated by (russia, china, n korea, iran....?)

our remaining forces would STILL be able to destroy the rest of the planet.

MAD.....


The chinese would not have long to laugh

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

You going nuke over a conventiinal strike?

According to Defense News, Air Force units will now head to the hills at the first sign of war, dispersing from their massive bases to local airports, isolated airstrips, any place that can support airplanes. The idea is to use those large bases not to concentrate air power but as a hub to feed dispersed air power, maintaining a steady flow of fuel, ammunition, and food to small detachments of fighters and other warplanes hiding at airfields adversaries may not even know about. U.S. Air Force Air Bases | Why Big Air Bases Are a Big Liability
The first sign of war will be these giant Airbases all burning at once. Speed of missiles these days fired from subs this must have Chinese laughing their ass off

from what I've read, though it is true that our enemies can strike us so quickly we would NOT be able to prevent mass destruction and death......AFTER the US was incinerated by (russia, china, n korea, iran....?)

our remaining forces would STILL be able to destroy the rest of the planet.

MAD.....


The chinese would not have long to laugh

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

This thread isn't about nuke strikes ....stay on topic

Actually, the topic is about relocation of Bases Stateside due to a War. And that is only going happen if the Russians start putting in the target codes on the Land Based ICBMs. Same goes for us. Conventional war will NOT trigger the relocation. There is no need since we can't be invaded and neither can China nor Russia.

 

[Manonthestreet]

According to Defense News, Air Force units will now head to the hills at the first sign of war, dispersing from their massive bases to local airports, isolated airstrips, any place that can support airplanes. The idea is to use those large bases not to concentrate air power but as a hub to feed dispersed air power, maintaining a steady flow of fuel, ammunition, and food to small detachments of fighters and other warplanes hiding at airfields adversaries may not even know about. U.S. Air Force Air Bases | Why Big Air Bases Are a Big Liability
The first sign of war will be these giant Airbases all burning at once. Speed of missiles these days fired from subs this must have Chinese laughing their ass off

from what I've read, though it is true that our enemies can strike us so quickly we would NOT be able to prevent mass destruction and death......AFTER the US was incinerated by (russia, china, n korea, iran....?)

our remaining forces would STILL be able to destroy the rest of the planet.

MAD.....


The chinese would not have long to laugh

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

You going nuke over a conventiinal strike?

According to Defense News, Air Force units will now head to the hills at the first sign of war, dispersing from their massive bases to local airports, isolated airstrips, any place that can support airplanes. The idea is to use those large bases not to concentrate air power but as a hub to feed dispersed air power, maintaining a steady flow of fuel, ammunition, and food to small detachments of fighters and other warplanes hiding at airfields adversaries may not even know about. U.S. Air Force Air Bases | Why Big Air Bases Are a Big Liability
The first sign of war will be these giant Airbases all burning at once. Speed of missiles these days fired from subs this must have Chinese laughing their ass off

from what I've read, though it is true that our enemies can strike us so quickly we would NOT be able to prevent mass destruction and death......AFTER the US was incinerated by (russia, china, n korea, iran....?)

our remaining forces would STILL be able to destroy the rest of the planet.

MAD.....


The chinese would not have long to laugh

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

This thread isn't about nuke strikes ....stay on topic

Actually, the topic is about relocation of Bases Stateside due to a War. And that is only going happen if the Russians start putting in the target codes on the Land Based ICBMs. Same goes for us. Conventional war will NOT trigger the relocation. There is no need since we can't be invaded and neither can China nor Russia.

No its about relocation of Pacific bases to other places in Theater....go back and fucking read

 

[airplanemechanic]

According to Defense News, Air Force units will now head to the hills at the first sign of war, dispersing from their massive bases to local airports, isolated airstrips, any place that can support airplanes. The idea is to use those large bases not to concentrate air power but as a hub to feed dispersed air power, maintaining a steady flow of fuel, ammunition, and food to small detachments of fighters and other warplanes hiding at airfields adversaries may not even know about. U.S. Air Force Air Bases | Why Big Air Bases Are a Big Liability
The first sign of war will be these giant Airbases all burning at once. Speed of missiles these days fired from subs this must have Chinese laughing their ass off

from what I've read, though it is true that our enemies can strike us so quickly we would NOT be able to prevent mass destruction and death......AFTER the US was incinerated by (russia, china, n korea, iran....?)

our remaining forces would STILL be able to destroy the rest of the planet.

MAD.....


The chinese would not have long to laugh

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

That is a common myth derived from the thought that if you put the entire worlds population into neat concentric circles and detonated a nuke on top of each one, we could kill everyone. Well sure we can, but that's not how the population is dispersed on our planet.

We do NOT have enough nukes to destroy the world and neither does Russia. We could put a dent in the worlds population, but it would probably be no more than a few hundred million that would die. Possible less than 10% of the entire world population.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

According to Defense News, Air Force units will now head to the hills at the first sign of war, dispersing from their massive bases to local airports, isolated airstrips, any place that can support airplanes. The idea is to use those large bases not to concentrate air power but as a hub to feed dispersed air power, maintaining a steady flow of fuel, ammunition, and food to small detachments of fighters and other warplanes hiding at airfields adversaries may not even know about. U.S. Air Force Air Bases | Why Big Air Bases Are a Big Liability
The first sign of war will be these giant Airbases all burning at once. Speed of missiles these days fired from subs this must have Chinese laughing their ass off

from what I've read, though it is true that our enemies can strike us so quickly we would NOT be able to prevent mass destruction and death......AFTER the US was incinerated by (russia, china, n korea, iran....?)

our remaining forces would STILL be able to destroy the rest of the planet.

MAD.....


The chinese would not have long to laugh

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

You going nuke over a conventiinal strike?

According to Defense News, Air Force units will now head to the hills at the first sign of war, dispersing from their massive bases to local airports, isolated airstrips, any place that can support airplanes. The idea is to use those large bases not to concentrate air power but as a hub to feed dispersed air power, maintaining a steady flow of fuel, ammunition, and food to small detachments of fighters and other warplanes hiding at airfields adversaries may not even know about. U.S. Air Force Air Bases | Why Big Air Bases Are a Big Liability
The first sign of war will be these giant Airbases all burning at once. Speed of missiles these days fired from subs this must have Chinese laughing their ass off

from what I've read, though it is true that our enemies can strike us so quickly we would NOT be able to prevent mass destruction and death......AFTER the US was incinerated by (russia, china, n korea, iran....?)

our remaining forces would STILL be able to destroy the rest of the planet.

MAD.....


The chinese would not have long to laugh

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

This thread isn't about nuke strikes ....stay on topic

Actually, the topic is about relocation of Bases Stateside due to a War. And that is only going happen if the Russians start putting in the target codes on the Land Based ICBMs. Same goes for us. Conventional war will NOT trigger the relocation. There is no need since we can't be invaded and neither can China nor Russia.

No its about relocation of Pacific bases to other places in Theater....go back and fucking read

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

According to Defense News, Air Force units will now head to the hills at the first sign of war, dispersing from their massive bases to local airports, isolated airstrips, any place that can support airplanes. The idea is to use those large bases not to concentrate air power but as a hub to feed dispersed air power, maintaining a steady flow of fuel, ammunition, and food to small detachments of fighters and other warplanes hiding at airfields adversaries may not even know about. U.S. Air Force Air Bases | Why Big Air Bases Are a Big Liability
The first sign of war will be these giant Airbases all burning at once. Speed of missiles these days fired from subs this must have Chinese laughing their ass off

from what I've read, though it is true that our enemies can strike us so quickly we would NOT be able to prevent mass destruction and death......AFTER the US was incinerated by (russia, china, n korea, iran....?)

our remaining forces would STILL be able to destroy the rest of the planet.

MAD.....


The chinese would not have long to laugh

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

That is a common myth derived from the thought that if you put the entire worlds population into neat concentric circles and detonated a nuke on top of each one, we could kill everyone. Well sure we can, but that's not how the population is dispersed on our planet.

We do NOT have enough nukes to destroy the world and neither does Russia. We could put a dent in the worlds population, but it would probably be no more than a few hundred million that would die. Possible less than 10% of the entire world population.

In the old SAC world, it was thought that about 85% of the US Population would survive even after the Nuclear Winter of a Decade of More. Russia and China would be a little higher due to their populations being more densely packed. Meanwhile, other parts of the world would have a very small loss overall. The World would not end but it would be changed. And Humans survived over the other Hominids because we adapted better. The only species that adapts better are cockroaches.

 

[Manonthestreet]

from what I've read, though it is true that our enemies can strike us so quickly we would NOT be able to prevent mass destruction and death......AFTER the US was incinerated by (russia, china, n korea, iran....?)

our remaining forces would STILL be able to destroy the rest of the planet.

MAD.....


The chinese would not have long to laugh

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

You going nuke over a conventiinal strike?

from what I've read, though it is true that our enemies can strike us so quickly we would NOT be able to prevent mass destruction and death......AFTER the US was incinerated by (russia, china, n korea, iran....?)

our remaining forces would STILL be able to destroy the rest of the planet.

MAD.....


The chinese would not have long to laugh

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

This thread isn't about nuke strikes ....stay on topic

Actually, the topic is about relocation of Bases Stateside due to a War. And that is only going happen if the Russians start putting in the target codes on the Land Based ICBMs. Same goes for us. Conventional war will NOT trigger the relocation. There is no need since we can't be invaded and neither can China nor Russia.

No its about relocation of Pacific bases to other places in Theater....go back and fucking read

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

Now go read the other article I posted on Chinese planning......you really are worthless and unimaginative....good thing you are out

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

You going nuke over a conventiinal strike?

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

This thread isn't about nuke strikes ....stay on topic

Actually, the topic is about relocation of Bases Stateside due to a War. And that is only going happen if the Russians start putting in the target codes on the Land Based ICBMs. Same goes for us. Conventional war will NOT trigger the relocation. There is no need since we can't be invaded and neither can China nor Russia.

No its about relocation of Pacific bases to other places in Theater....go back and fucking read

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

Now go read the other article I posted on Chinese planning......you really are worthless and unimaginative....good thing you are out

The relocation plans have always existed even in WWI. And I am not real worried about the Chinese doing any preemptive strikes on US Bases. The payback would be hell with just the resources that are in place right now. Their industries are on the coast. Their shipping is on the coast. And they can't think that a retaliatory strike wouldn't be done. It would cripple China for a few decades. And, again, that is from the US Resources that are currently in that theater. China would lose the war without a single GI stepping foot on Chinese Soil.

 

[Manonthestreet]

You going nuke over a conventiinal strike?
This thread isn't about nuke strikes ....stay on topic

Actually, the topic is about relocation of Bases Stateside due to a War. And that is only going happen if the Russians start putting in the target codes on the Land Based ICBMs. Same goes for us. Conventional war will NOT trigger the relocation. There is no need since we can't be invaded and neither can China nor Russia.

No its about relocation of Pacific bases to other places in Theater....go back and fucking read

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

Now go read the other article I posted on Chinese planning......you really are worthless and unimaginative....good thing you are out

The relocation plans have always existed even in WWI. And I am not real worried about the Chinese doing any preemptive strikes on US Bases. The payback would be hell with just the resources that are in place right now. Their industries are on the coast. Their shipping is on the coast. And they can't think that a retaliatory strike wouldn't be done. It would cripple China for a few decades. And, again, that is from the US Resources that are currently in that theater. China would lose the war without a single GI stepping foot on Chinese Soil.

That type of arrogance that breeds disasters

 

[Silver Cat]

According to Defense News, Air Force units will now head to the hills at the first sign of war, dispersing from their massive bases to local airports, isolated airstrips, any place that can support airplanes. The idea is to use those large bases not to concentrate air power but as a hub to feed dispersed air power, maintaining a steady flow of fuel, ammunition, and food to small detachments of fighters and other warplanes hiding at airfields adversaries may not even know about. U.S. Air Force Air Bases | Why Big Air Bases Are a Big Liability
The first sign of war will be these giant Airbases all burning at once. Speed of missiles these days fired from subs this must have Chinese laughing their ass off

from what I've read, though it is true that our enemies can strike us so quickly we would NOT be able to prevent mass destruction and death......AFTER the US was incinerated by (russia, china, n korea, iran....?)

our remaining forces would STILL be able to destroy the rest of the planet.

MAD.....


The chinese would not have long to laugh

And that is the crux of it.

Even after a first strike, we can destroy the world

That is a common myth derived from the thought that if you put the entire worlds population into neat concentric circles and detonated a nuke on top of each one, we could kill everyone. Well sure we can, but that's not how the population is dispersed on our planet.

We do NOT have enough nukes to destroy the world and neither does Russia. We could put a dent in the worlds population, but it would probably be no more than a few hundred million that would die. Possible less than 10% of the entire world population.

In the old SAC world, it was thought that about 85% of the US Population would survive even after the Nuclear Winter of a Decade of More. Russia and China would be a little higher due to their populations being more densely packed. Meanwhile, other parts of the world would have a very small loss overall. The World would not end but it would be changed. And Humans survived over the other Hominids because we adapted better. The only species that adapts better are cockroaches.

The World was changed after WWI, after WWII, after Vietnam War, after 911, or even after current Syrian conflict. On the other hand - the world is the same, and will be the same until its very end.
Kill or be killed, fight or flee, use your moral, intellectual and physical superiority and destroy anybody who stays on your way. Survive or not survive, and may the best men win.
The nuclear exchange is just a first substage of a hot stage of the war.
And the war will be finished with the final delimitation of the Norwegian-Australian border.

 

[Silver Cat]

You going nuke over a conventiinal strike?
This thread isn't about nuke strikes ....stay on topic

Actually, the topic is about relocation of Bases Stateside due to a War. And that is only going happen if the Russians start putting in the target codes on the Land Based ICBMs. Same goes for us. Conventional war will NOT trigger the relocation. There is no need since we can't be invaded and neither can China nor Russia.

No its about relocation of Pacific bases to other places in Theater....go back and fucking read

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

Now go read the other article I posted on Chinese planning......you really are worthless and unimaginative....good thing you are out

The relocation plans have always existed even in WWI. And I am not real worried about the Chinese doing any preemptive strikes on US Bases. The payback would be hell with just the resources that are in place right now. Their industries are on the coast. Their shipping is on the coast. And they can't think that a retaliatory strike wouldn't be done. It would cripple China for a few decades. And, again, that is from the US Resources that are currently in that theater. China would lose the war without a single GI stepping foot on Chinese Soil.

You see... There is a little problem - Russia. If we use small forces - the Russians will significally increase their influence in China and China became their colony (so, Russia became much stronger and the USA - much weaker). If we use all our nukes - Russia will attack us without any risk of retaliation.
We really need to distract Russia before fighting China.

 

[Silver Cat]

So what? There was an erruption in 1883 with total energy 100-200 Mt. There was a cold year after it, but not so cold as 1816. Human civilisation was not terminated, was not even significally harmed.

Now, multiply that by a factor of a thousand.

Why? 200-500 Mt is one warhead of "Poseidon" torpedo. Even in the pessimistic scenario the Russians will have "Belgorod" and "Khabarovsk" (with six Poseidons each) at the end of this year. It means only 12 Krakatoas. Plus one 3-7Gt Santorini eruption for all strategic warheads.
May be, it is seriouse in the time of peace, but after a full-scale nuclear exchange, you know, climate change will be the last thing that we should worry about.

In my Navy days I was on the crew of Fleet Ballistic Missile Submarine and later served as a Nuclear Weapons Officer. Pardon my blunt language, but you don't have a fucking clue about what you are discussing and leave it at that.

Ha! Its not about your experience. Its about your faith. You are an Environmentalist, aren't you? You believe in The Nuclear Winter, or The Global Warming, or Ozone Hole or any other environmentalistic eschatological nonsence not because of your real practical experience, but because of the environmentalistic propaganda.

So you don't believe the Ozone Layer was being harmed. In my lifetime, I have seen it get mighty sparse and then recover just by man no longer contributing to it's decline. The worst Ozone Layer disaster was when the Soviets fired off the Tsar Bomb. It was the largest Nuclear warhead ever fired. It's blew a huge hole in the Ozone Layer for hundreds of Miles. Nothing could grow for many years there. People living there developed a high degree of various Cancers, birth defects and other ailments. The Soviets had to, effectively, shut down any use of that region. Today, the Ozone layer is almost completely healed in that region and people have moved back into it. The Soviets claimed it was a 100MT yield but it was actually "Only" 50MT. At one time, we have 10 MT warheads (and so did the Soviets) on our missiles.

First of all, ozone hole at South Pole appears every winter (polar night) and "heal" every summer (polar day). It's a system with a negative feedback. Less ozone -> more UV radiation. More UV - more ozone. Man, this system works even in a case of a Solar storm. Nuclear burst radiation create ozone, not destroy it. Burst of AN-602 was 58,6 Mt. Local towns (Amderma at 280 km, and Dikson at 800 km) were not evacuated, and have been working in the usual status. Nothing is growing (exept moss) at Novaya Zemlya not because of UV-radiation, but because of Arctic climate. UV-radiation can cause skin cancer only, and only if you exposure your open skin. And if you take sunbathes at polar night - you have much more seriose problems than the skin cancer.

Those of us that are from the Military Nuclear Forces are much more aware of what would happen and we are less likely to shake our fists and push that button.

Some people call it "I&D" - "influenced and demotivated" or (less formally) - "infected (by the Soviet propaganda) and destroyed".

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Actually, the topic is about relocation of Bases Stateside due to a War. And that is only going happen if the Russians start putting in the target codes on the Land Based ICBMs. Same goes for us. Conventional war will NOT trigger the relocation. There is no need since we can't be invaded and neither can China nor Russia.

No its about relocation of Pacific bases to other places in Theater....go back and fucking read

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

Now go read the other article I posted on Chinese planning......you really are worthless and unimaginative....good thing you are out

The relocation plans have always existed even in WWI. And I am not real worried about the Chinese doing any preemptive strikes on US Bases. The payback would be hell with just the resources that are in place right now. Their industries are on the coast. Their shipping is on the coast. And they can't think that a retaliatory strike wouldn't be done. It would cripple China for a few decades. And, again, that is from the US Resources that are currently in that theater. China would lose the war without a single GI stepping foot on Chinese Soil.

You see... There is a little problem - Russia. If we use small forces - the Russians will significally increase their influence in China and China became their colony (so, Russia became much stronger and the USA - much weaker). If we use all our nukes - Russia will attack us without any risk of retaliation.
We really need to distract Russia before fighting China.

And even then, Russia still could not invade China anymore than the US could. There are only two places that Russia could invade China and both places are easily defended. China has more to fear from India yet even India would have severe problems trying to invade China due to terrain. In all cases, it would be ground troop versus ground troop and China would be able to raise a 600 million man army no matter how poorly trained against a few hundred thousand invading troops from Russia. The US could land even less troops. China is very secure in surviving any invasion much like Russia or the US is. Even after a Nuclear Exchange.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Actually, the topic is about relocation of Bases Stateside due to a War. And that is only going happen if the Russians start putting in the target codes on the Land Based ICBMs. Same goes for us. Conventional war will NOT trigger the relocation. There is no need since we can't be invaded and neither can China nor Russia.

No its about relocation of Pacific bases to other places in Theater....go back and fucking read

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

Now go read the other article I posted on Chinese planning......you really are worthless and unimaginative....good thing you are out

The relocation plans have always existed even in WWI. And I am not real worried about the Chinese doing any preemptive strikes on US Bases. The payback would be hell with just the resources that are in place right now. Their industries are on the coast. Their shipping is on the coast. And they can't think that a retaliatory strike wouldn't be done. It would cripple China for a few decades. And, again, that is from the US Resources that are currently in that theater. China would lose the war without a single GI stepping foot on Chinese Soil.

You see... There is a little problem - Russia. If we use small forces - the Russians will significally increase their influence in China and China became their colony (so, Russia became much stronger and the USA - much weaker). If we use all our nukes - Russia will attack us without any risk of retaliation.
We really need to distract Russia before fighting China.

Attacking China using Nukes would be silly. We have enough conventional resources in place right now to cripple China and China knows it. So the Nukes are left on the bargaining table.

 

[22lcidw]

No its about relocation of Pacific bases to other places in Theater....go back and fucking read

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

Now go read the other article I posted on Chinese planning......you really are worthless and unimaginative....good thing you are out

The relocation plans have always existed even in WWI. And I am not real worried about the Chinese doing any preemptive strikes on US Bases. The payback would be hell with just the resources that are in place right now. Their industries are on the coast. Their shipping is on the coast. And they can't think that a retaliatory strike wouldn't be done. It would cripple China for a few decades. And, again, that is from the US Resources that are currently in that theater. China would lose the war without a single GI stepping foot on Chinese Soil.

You see... There is a little problem - Russia. If we use small forces - the Russians will significally increase their influence in China and China became their colony (so, Russia became much stronger and the USA - much weaker). If we use all our nukes - Russia will attack us without any risk of retaliation.
We really need to distract Russia before fighting China.

And even then, Russia still could not invade China anymore than the US could. There are only two places that Russia could invade China and both places are easily defended. China has more to fear from India yet even India would have severe problems trying to invade China due to terrain. In all cases, it would be ground troop versus ground troop and China would be able to raise a 600 million man army no matter how poorly trained against a few hundred thousand invading troops from Russia. The US could land even less troops. China is very secure in surviving any invasion much like Russia or the US is. Even after a Nuclear Exchange.

There is no ground war possibility for us in China. Mass exterminations would need to happen through WMD's.

 

[Manonthestreet]

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

Now go read the other article I posted on Chinese planning......you really are worthless and unimaginative....good thing you are out

The relocation plans have always existed even in WWI. And I am not real worried about the Chinese doing any preemptive strikes on US Bases. The payback would be hell with just the resources that are in place right now. Their industries are on the coast. Their shipping is on the coast. And they can't think that a retaliatory strike wouldn't be done. It would cripple China for a few decades. And, again, that is from the US Resources that are currently in that theater. China would lose the war without a single GI stepping foot on Chinese Soil.

You see... There is a little problem - Russia. If we use small forces - the Russians will significally increase their influence in China and China became their colony (so, Russia became much stronger and the USA - much weaker). If we use all our nukes - Russia will attack us without any risk of retaliation.
We really need to distract Russia before fighting China.

And even then, Russia still could not invade China anymore than the US could. There are only two places that Russia could invade China and both places are easily defended. China has more to fear from India yet even India would have severe problems trying to invade China due to terrain. In all cases, it would be ground troop versus ground troop and China would be able to raise a 600 million man army no matter how poorly trained against a few hundred thousand invading troops from Russia. The US could land even less troops. China is very secure in surviving any invasion much like Russia or the US is. Even after a Nuclear Exchange.

There is no ground war possibility for us in China. Mass exterminations would need to happen through WMD's.

Again off topic,,,,guy has been all over the place.

 

[Silver Cat]

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

Now go read the other article I posted on Chinese planning......you really are worthless and unimaginative....good thing you are out

The relocation plans have always existed even in WWI. And I am not real worried about the Chinese doing any preemptive strikes on US Bases. The payback would be hell with just the resources that are in place right now. Their industries are on the coast. Their shipping is on the coast. And they can't think that a retaliatory strike wouldn't be done. It would cripple China for a few decades. And, again, that is from the US Resources that are currently in that theater. China would lose the war without a single GI stepping foot on Chinese Soil.

You see... There is a little problem - Russia. If we use small forces - the Russians will significally increase their influence in China and China became their colony (so, Russia became much stronger and the USA - much weaker). If we use all our nukes - Russia will attack us without any risk of retaliation.
We really need to distract Russia before fighting China.

And even then, Russia still could not invade China anymore than the US could. There are only two places that Russia could invade China and both places are easily defended. China has more to fear from India yet even India would have severe problems trying to invade China due to terrain. In all cases, it would be ground troop versus ground troop and China would be able to raise a 600 million man army no matter how poorly trained against a few hundred thousand invading troops from Russia. The US could land even less troops. China is very secure in surviving any invasion much like Russia or the US is. Even after a Nuclear Exchange.

There is no ground war possibility for us in China. Mass exterminations would need to happen through WMD's.

Yes. You see - it is the possibility.

 

[Silver Cat]

No its about relocation of Pacific bases to other places in Theater....go back and fucking read

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

Now go read the other article I posted on Chinese planning......you really are worthless and unimaginative....good thing you are out

The relocation plans have always existed even in WWI. And I am not real worried about the Chinese doing any preemptive strikes on US Bases. The payback would be hell with just the resources that are in place right now. Their industries are on the coast. Their shipping is on the coast. And they can't think that a retaliatory strike wouldn't be done. It would cripple China for a few decades. And, again, that is from the US Resources that are currently in that theater. China would lose the war without a single GI stepping foot on Chinese Soil.

You see... There is a little problem - Russia. If we use small forces - the Russians will significally increase their influence in China and China became their colony (so, Russia became much stronger and the USA - much weaker). If we use all our nukes - Russia will attack us without any risk of retaliation.
We really need to distract Russia before fighting China.

Attacking China using Nukes would be silly. We have enough conventional resources in place right now to cripple China and China knows it. So the Nukes are left on the bargaining table.

No. It is quite difficult to destroy China even with nukes. Without it - it is absolutely useless attempt. And do you suggest conventional retaliation as answer on Chines nuclear strike?
And yes, Chineses, however good trained and equiped are bad soldiers. Just the soft meat.

 

[harmonica]

No its about relocation of Pacific bases to other places in Theater....go back and fucking read

In order to put Wake or others out of action, you really can't use conventional warheads for that. Kt versus MT. In fact, the warheads on the conventional Ballistic Missiles aren't enough to do any more than piss the other side off no matter how many you use. The use of an alternative air field is as old as Air Power. You honestly believe that the US hitting the Luftwaffen Air Fields stopped the launching of German Fighters and Bombers? It didn't. Even the bombing of the major factories didn't stop production. Germany relocated it all and adapted. What stopped Air Power was the starvation of Fuel. And even then, Germany used alternative methods to make that fuel but it was costly and less efficient. Even the Brits moved their bases further away from their coast because those bases were being hit.

If you think this is something new, it's not. And the planning is sound.

Now go read the other article I posted on Chinese planning......you really are worthless and unimaginative....good thing you are out

The relocation plans have always existed even in WWI. And I am not real worried about the Chinese doing any preemptive strikes on US Bases. The payback would be hell with just the resources that are in place right now. Their industries are on the coast. Their shipping is on the coast. And they can't think that a retaliatory strike wouldn't be done. It would cripple China for a few decades. And, again, that is from the US Resources that are currently in that theater. China would lose the war without a single GI stepping foot on Chinese Soil.

You see... There is a little problem - Russia. If we use small forces - the Russians will significally increase their influence in China and China became their colony (so, Russia became much stronger and the USA - much weaker). If we use all our nukes - Russia will attack us without any risk of retaliation.
We really need to distract Russia before fighting China.

Attacking China using Nukes would be silly. We have enough conventional resources in place right now to cripple China and China knows it. So the Nukes are left on the bargaining table.

No. It is quite difficult to destroy China even with nukes. Without it - it is absolutely useless attempt. And do you suggest conventional retaliation as answer on Chines nuclear strike?
And yes, Chineses, however good trained and equiped are bad soldiers. Just the soft meat.

....they kicked our a$$ in Korea.....kicked a whole corps off the peninsula --[ do I need to prove it as I've done many times on USMB? ]
AND we had air and naval superiority!!!
..you make a basic and fatal mistake==underestimating the enemy