Some one please tell me how did they get the holy spirit in the OT ?

[Wyatt earp]

It's a farce.

One of the best garbage perversions I've ever seen is that when Yaakov (Jacob) dies, the Hebrew says "Yaakov (Yig-vah) expired" and the KJV says, "Jacob gave up the ghost".
WTF!

Thanks..


Acts 5:30 ticks me off in the NLT, KJV and NIV says Jesus was hanged on a tree, NLT says cross how the heck can NLT confuse tree with a cross unless it was deliberate?

New King James Version​

ChapterParallel
Acts 5:30 (NKJV) The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree.

New Living Translation​

ChapterParallel
Acts 5:30 (NLT) The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead after you killed him by hanging him on a cross

 

[MarathonMike]

You put 10 Christians in a room and ask them a question about the bible. You will hear "No, what it really says is....." about a hundred times.

 

[Feeding Crows]

They made it up? There's no such thing... Nor are the other two...

 

[Feeding Crows]

Let me clarify it..


If you read the new testament specifically the book of acts it says how you get the holy spirit, it was from Jesus dying , going to heaven and releasing him to us..

If you read the NT carefully many ways to get the Holy spirit by repenting and being baptised for example in Acts 2:38, or laying hands on people for some examples. Jesus got it from heaven after he was baptized by John.

But in the NT simeon had the holy spirit in him when he was holding Jesus as a baby ( think it was in luke 2:25)

Again if you read the old Testament people received the holy spirit and Jesus wasn't even born yet or died

More clarification in the NLT (I think) the holy spirit is all over the place in the two books of kings

In case this hasn't been solved already, i admit i'm new to this thread and I'm not going to read the crazy answers...

But all that shit didn't really happen! It's made up bullshit! The OT came from much more ancient texts, so the OT is already corrupt. For the NT to follow a corrupt OT, means all the crazy questions that you ask are unanswerable, except by other crazy people who follow corrupt sht...

 

[Feeding Crows]

Just believe in your family, and find a way out of this shit we call reality. Fucking religious zealots are ruining this world since they started circa 2000BC. So much knowledge has been lost. So many lives have been lost. For what?

What has been gained by the knowledge lost?

Fucking idiots arguing about god on a forum or a battlefield?!? That'll go on forever until we stop it.

You people need to wake up, and realize there is no god. There's nobody here to help you except ourselves. The sooner we can realize that, the sooner we can become greater as one species.

 

[Feeding Crows]

There are two evil institutions we need to eradicate from this world. The first one is religion. It needs to be removed like the cancer that it is. Hopefully it will be through logic and common sense. That will take a lot of time, but that's ok.

Faith is good. Following a religion is not good. People can have faith without committing themselves to human rule. That's #1 priority.

 

[Feeding Crows]

We kill each other because that's what religious leaders tell us to do. Even in modern times, "God bless the USA" is used to kill anybody else. "Allah" is used likewise, the Jews say it's "God's Army". Every country uses its religion to justify killing everyone else, and pumping morale into its troops.

I mean, that's just wrong! That's not what faith is about... What's wrong with us? Why can't people see this?

 

[Feeding Crows]

Some of us can see it individually, but as a whole? The mass herd hears the religious trumpets and fights whoever they're told to fight. For God.

 

[kjw47]

I am not going to lay awake at night worrying that Jesus will deny me entrance to heaven because I celebrated the Christmas season or the
Easter season for that matter.

If you feel celebrating Christmas and Easter is a sin then to you it is. Don’t celebrate those holidays.

The anointed 144,000( Rev 14:3) are promised heaven= the little flock(Luke 12:32) they are numbered--The only other ones who will belong to God is the great crowd which no man can number--The great crowd is promised earth-Matt 5:5--Psalm 37:9-11, 29-- this is what the teachers who actually have Jesus teach. They do not throw Jesus truth away and tell all they are going to heaven-these teachers do-2Cor 11:12-15- the rest will be judged as goats.
I know they are called the great crowd-But Jesus assurred--Those that find the road to life will be FEW. because they do not have his teachers.
The bible gave wise council to all--Be like the Boreans and make sure of all things.

 

[kjw47]

It is interesting that if you read the first chapter of John, you will notice that when John says:

John 1:18
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

From reading this, who do you think is being referred to as God? Who did Jesus declare as God? Was it not the Father?

Who then was it that Moses and the other prophets of old saw? Jesus taught:

John 8:53-59
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Was it not the Great I AM whom the prophets of old saw? Was it not Jesus (aka Jehovah)? John was correct in saying that no man hath seen God (the Father) at any time up to the time He wrote the book of John. It was Jesus whom they saw.

Exodus 3:13-15
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Hosea 13:4​

4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

Isaiah 45:21​

21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

There is no i am that i am in the Hebrew OT. I will be what i will be is correct. The Hebrews know their language better than any. Its a mistranslation to decieve.
At that point in time YHWH was the only savior. And its Fact that in the NT God did it all through Jesus-Acts 2:22-- so actually it is God being the savior. He does it through Jesus.

 

[Wyatt earp]

In case this hasn't been solved already, i admit i'm new to this thread and I'm not going to read the crazy answers...

But all that shit didn't really happen! It's made up bullshit! The OT came from much more ancient texts, so the OT is already corrupt. For the NT to follow a corrupt OT, means all the crazy questions that you ask are unanswerable, except by other crazy people who follow corrupt sht...

Welcome to USMB a couple of things in my older age I love to do argue on the internet and I am fascinated by the Bible because something is in me that's hard to explain, I started to love and study the Bible ( I admit I am new at this been only doing it for three years now, but I have spent a lot of time and probably only know .00001% of the bible)

The bible is not all made up there is historical facts and if you believe ....

 

[Wyatt earp]

There are two evil institutions we need to eradicate from this world. The first one is religion. It needs to be removed like the cancer that it is. Hopefully it will be through logic and common sense. That will take a lot of time, but that's ok.

Faith is good. Following a religion is not good. People can have faith without committing themselves to human rule. That's #1 priority.

When people tell me we must remove religion I always think to myself what do you have against widows and orphans, what did they do to you?

( James 1:27 pure religion is taking care of widows and orphans and staying away from the evil of the world )

 

[Wyatt earp]

You put 10 Christians in a room and ask them a question about the bible. You will hear "No, what it really says is....." about a hundred times.

Yup and some of these preachers will take a simple verse like in proverbs it says "dog vomit," they will spend an hour spin it/ change it all around and tell you it really says " God sent Jesus to die for you on the cross"

 

[Clyde 154]

Some would argue there is no mention of "Hell" in the O.T. Which is actually a half truth. Under the terms of the O.T. covenants there was no actual forgiveness of sin, sins were carried over from one season to the next (year to year) with animal blood sacrifices required to hide those sins from God. This is the reason that the N.T. Covenant was predicted in O.T. prophecies such as Jer. 31:31-34.......the fault was not with God in the letter of the Old Covenant, it was with the fault of man who could not live without constantly breaking the oracles of the Old Law, as directly pointed out in Jer. 31, "......which law you BRAKE....." -- 31:32 of Jer. 31 Who was always breaking the law? The Jews that were taken by the hand and led out of Egyptian captivity.

Thus........to say there was no mention of Hell in the O.T. is based upon the fact that the spirits of the dead in the O.T. went directly back to God and were imprisoned in a place called "Sheol" (in Hebrew....a place of the dead)......later translated into Koine Greek as "HADES".......the resting place of the dead. Hades consists of 2 sections, one for the righteous called "paradise" by Luke in chapter 16 and another place were the wicked are kept separate from the righteous awaiting the final judgment.

Its obvious why there is no mention of Hell or Gehenna in the O.T. All the spirits leading up to the actual final judgment, souls from both covenant eras, the O.T. and N.T. are still awaiting the final judgment of God when death will finally be defeated (as Hades gives up its dead on that day -- Rev. 20:13) with the wicked being judged with the eternal judgment of HELL (Gehenna). God created Hell especially for Satan and his angels and those judged wicked (Matt.25:41)

Thus there was no actual concept of Hell has understood in the O.T., but that does not stop it from existing as a place of eternal torment reserved for the FINAL JUDGMENT OF GOD. Jesus preached to the spirits imprisoned in Sheol through the Holy Spirit of God after His death on the cross (1 Peter 3:19-20), and there were individuals from the time period of Noah represented as the only 8 saved by water, also mentioned were the disobedient under the O.T.

The scriptures actually describe the resting place of the dead spirits in the O.T as Sheol/Hades (Hebrew/Koine Greek). The Bible reveals that God is present even in Sheol (the abode of the dead). "Where can I go from YOUR (God's) SPIRIT? Or where can I flee from your presence? Even if I make my bed in Sheol......." (Ps. 139:7-12). Which parrels the N.T. teaching in Luke concerning the parable of the resting place of the dead (Luke 16:23-24)

 

[kjw47]

Some would argue there is no mention of "Hell" in the O.T. Which is actually a half truth. Under the terms of the O.T. covenants there was no actual forgiveness of sin, sins were carried over from one season to the next (year to year) with animal blood sacrifices required to hide those sins from God. This is the reason that the N.T. Covenant was predicted in O.T. prophecies such as Jer. 31:31-34.......the fault was not with God in the letter of the Old Covenant, it was with the fault of man who could not live without constantly breaking the oracles of the Old Law, as directly pointed out in Jer. 31, "......which law you BRAKE....." -- 31:32 of Jer. 31 Who was always breaking the law? The Jews that were taken by the hand and led out of Egyptian captivity.

Thus........to say there was no mention of Hell in the O.T. is based upon the fact that the spirits of the dead in the O.T. went directly back to God and were imprisoned in a place called "Sheol" (in Hebrew....a place of the dead)......later translated into Koine Greek as "HADES".......the resting place of the dead. Hades consists of 2 sections, one for the righteous called "paradise" by Luke in chapter 16 and another place were the wicked are kept separate from the righteous awaiting the final judgment.

Its obvious why there is no mention of Hell or Gehenna in the O.T. All the spirits leading up to the actual final judgment, souls from both covenant eras, the O.T. and N.T. are still awaiting the final judgment of God when death will finally be defeated (as Hades gives up its dead on that day -- Rev. 20:13) with the wicked being judged with the eternal judgment of HELL (Gehenna). God created Hell especially for Satan and his angels and those judged wicked (Matt.25:41)

Thus there was no actual concept of Hell has understood in the O.T., but that does not stop it from existing as a place of eternal torment reserved for the FINAL JUDGMENT OF GOD. Jesus preached to the spirits imprisoned in Sheol through the Holy Spirit of God after His death on the cross (1 Peter 3:19-20), and there were individuals from the time period of Noah represented as the only 8 saved by water, also mentioned were the disobedient under the O.T.

The scriptures actually describe the resting place of the dead spirits in the O.T as Sheol/Hades (Hebrew/Koine Greek). The Bible reveals that God is present even in Sheol (the abode of the dead). "Where can I go from YOUR (God's) SPIRIT? Or where can I flee from your presence? Even if I make my bed in Sheol......." (Ps. 139:7-12). Which parrels the N.T. teaching in Luke concerning the parable of the resting place of the dead (Luke 16:23-24)

Yes the resting place of the dead= The grave.

 

[hobelim]

Actually the two edged sword is this

1) the righteous, those who do not practice sin and live now doing Jesus fathers will are promised entrance into Gods kingdom-Matthew 7:21-23

2) God views every other one as wicked and will not get entrance into his kingdom. And will hear these words from Jesus at verse 22-23 at Matthew 7 as judgement.

No. You have been misled. The sword is a curse under the appearance of a cup of wine


"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

Take this cup of wine and drink it,all of you. This is a cup of my blood, the blood of the covenant."



"He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword."

 

[hobelim]

I guess they never told you the verse that if anyone comes to change the Torah, that person is to be executed.

Jesus did not change the Torah. He fulfilled the laws demands in the way that Moses originally taught, the way that the Jewish people had turned aside from ever since his death a very very very long time ago.You don't care, I know, you feel better saying that I am mentally ill and aside from that, you have traditions followed diligently ever since the death of Moses, the Talmud. Why worry? lol.... Oh yeah, you said that anyone who changes the Torah should be executed...oops.

"For I know how rebellious and stubborn you are. Behold, even today while I am yet alive with you, you have rebelled against the Lord. How much more will you do so after my death! Assemble to me all the elders of your tribes and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears and call heaven and earth as a witness against them. For I know that after my death you will surely corrupt yourselves and turn aside from the way that I have commanded you. And in the days to come evil will befall you, because you will do what is evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger through the work of your hands.” (Temple)

If this was not true how do you explain the fact that ever since the death of Moses the history of the Jewish people parallels perfectly the long and detailed list of maledictions promised for turning aside from the way that Moses taught to follow law? (Deuteronomy 28;15-68)

Take your time.......

 

[kjw47]

No. You have been misled. The sword is a curse under the appearance of a cup of wine


"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

Take this cup of wine and drink it,all of you. This is a cup of my blood, the blood of the covenant."



"He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword."

Its not me who is being mislead. The bible writers were inspired by God through holy spirit.

 

[hobelim]

The bible writers were inspired by God through holy spirit.

Maybe so.

However, the gospels were written by dedicated Jews (inspired by God) who witnessed the destruction of Judea, the Temple, their way of life, and the persecution, slaughter, enslavement, and exile of hundreds of thousands of Jewish men, women and children.

You don't know that Jesus sent the sword, a curse in a cup of wine, to smite the nations?

Some teachers you have there....I'm sure that Jesus is very impressed. I am.


Do you really think that God loved the nations of Roman world so much that he sent his son to be crucified so they could continue to be vile and loathsome creatures for life with impunity as long as they celebrate his death and eat him in the form of a lifeless matzo made by human hands?

Yeah, right. I didn't buy that load of crap in the second grade. What excuse does any adult have?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Collosians 1:15--He was Gods image--not God- He lived 24/7-365 to do Gods will--that is how they could see the Father.--The Father is greater than i---
When the bible proves you in at error at every step--one should believe it.
No man has ever seen God.
Israel is no longer Gods chosen-Matt 23:38-39--- spiritual Israel gathered in all nations is Gods chosen now. Matt 21:43

i would run from your teachers.

As well you should. They hate disinformation...