Solar Power Destroys Miles and Miles of Desert

[jc456]

And were we to cover the industrial and commercial roofs within the cities with solar, a large percentage of the cities power would be self supplied.

That's simply not true unless you are in Arizona and similar places with little weather, and high sunlight energy.

Even so, currently solar panels just barely make enough power to meet or exceed the power used in their creation, and the costs per kWh, is still a hundred times higher than conventional power.

We'll know Solar Panels have finally arrived when the solar panel factories disconnect from the power grid, and can run exclusively on the power generated by their own product. Until that happens, I wager the idea of solar powered cities is still a long way off.

Of course you never know. A break through could happen right around the corner. But thus far, drastic increases in PV efficiency has come at massively highers prices. New Cadmium telluride photovoltaics, with high 40% efficiency, come with steep price tags, making them impractical for all but aerospace applications.

I doubt we'll be seeing cities covered in panels any time soon. Just my opinion.

this!!!

 

[jc456]

Oncor proposes giant leap for grid batteries Dallas Morning News

Oncor, which runs Texas’ largest power line network, is willing to bet battery technology is ready for wide-scale deployment across the grid.

In a move that stands to radically shift the dynamics of the industry, Oncor is set to announce Monday that it is prepared to invest more than $2 billion to store electricity in thousands of batteries across North and West Texas beginning in 2018.

Utility-scale batteries have been a holy grail within the energy sector for years. With enough storage space, surplus electricity can be generated at night, when plants usually sit idle, to be used the next day, when demand is highest. Power outages would become less frequent. Wind and solar power, susceptible to weather conditions, could be built on a larger scale. The only problem has been that the price of batteries has been too high to make economic sense. But if they’re purchased on a large enough scale, that won’t be the case for long, said Oncor CEO Bob Shapard.

“Everyone assumed the price point was five to six years out. We’re getting indications from everyone we’ve talked to they can get us to that price by 2018,” he said in an interview Wednesday.

The Dallas-based transmission company is proposing the installation of 5,000 megawatts of batteries not just in its service area but across Texas’ entire grid. That is the equivalent of four nuclear power plants on a grid with a capacity of about 81,000 megawatts.

Ranging from refrigerator- to dumpster-size, the batteries would be installed behind shopping centers and in neighborhoods. Statewide, Oncor estimates a total price tag of $5.2 billion. A study commissioned by Oncor with the Brattle Group, a Massachusetts consulting firm that provides power market analysis for state regulators, says the project would not raise bills. Revenue from rental of storage space on the batteries, along with a decrease in power prices and transmission costs, should actually decrease the average Texas residential power bill 34 cents to $179.66 a month, the report said.

And another newspaper story from hyper-liberal Texas.

so basically nothing of evidence until three years out? Yet today there is no evidence to support batteries that can do what is needed. Not to say, Universities aren't using our youth to develop newer better batteries. Just is no evidence to suggest it is near at all. One should have the next step available before shutting down existing plants. But why does the left care about their citizens? They don't.

 

[CultureCitizen]

You know nothing about electricity and the load on a system. Besides the wattage, you have to supply up to 50 amps, to handle that spike that is created when a motor turns on, its called the electrical code.

Your mistake has nothing to do with math, you simply do not understand how your home works.

Sory , but my refrigerator doesn't use 500 watts each time it turns on.

I work on Nuclear power plants, I have been to the Salton Sea and worked on Geothermal plants, I have worked on CoGen plants as well. My company has inspected Solar Plants I have not, I have co-workers from other companies that have inspected Wind Turbines.

Nuclear is a mixed blessing. Arguably it has done more harm to humans than any other form of energy ( not in the US though).

 

[CultureCitizen]

Your mistake has nothing to do with math, you simply do not understand how your home works.

Oh, I do, I suggested a panel to complement the energy provided by the electric company . You were the one that insisted on calculating the costs of an off-grid home (which I will agree, is something in which I have no experience).Even with the complete solar kit yields 0.24 USD per kwh ($8000, for a 140 kwh per month kit that includes solar panels that only last for 10 years).

And as I said, that is not an option for me because of the battery costs (30% of the kit ) and externalities ( toxic waste from batteries ).
Regardless, the energy obtained during the kits lifetime (20 years with the panel replacement) equals 1,000 gallons of gasoline.

 

[elektra]

You know nothing about electricity and the load on a system. Besides the wattage, you have to supply up to 50 amps, to handle that spike that is created when a motor turns on, its called the electrical code.

Your mistake has nothing to do with math, you simply do not understand how your home works.

Sory , but my refrigerator doesn't use 500 watts each time it turns on.

I work on Nuclear power plants, I have been to the Salton Sea and worked on Geothermal plants, I have worked on CoGen plants as well. My company has inspected Solar Plants I have not, I have co-workers from other companies that have inspected Wind Turbines.

Nuclear is a mixed blessing. Arguably it has done more harm to humans than any other form of energy ( not in the US though).

"but my refrigerator doesn't use 500 watts each time it turns on."

Correct, it is in reference to one hour. Just like the 1 solar panel you think can run 1 refrigerator.

A 500 watt refrigerator needs a 1500 watt source, to turn on, once on it will use 500 watts, a hour.

The Solar Panel you linked to, the 300 watt panel, puts out only 205 watts according to specs. Factory max. is not the same as real world installed. You need 8 panels just to turn on the refrigerator, of course a 500 watt refrigerator is smaller than average, much smaller. Ever here of a reactive load, a reactive load takes three times the rated power, to start. Power is measured in watts.

According to code, you need a minimum of 6000 watts to power a house. If I am correct in thinking all one needs is one 50 amp circuit.

As far as your other post goes, right, I could go back and get your post, but I think your foot is about as far down your throat as you can handle.

http://pdf.wholesalesolar.com/module pdf folder/CHSM6612P-305_Specs.pdf

 

[jc456]

You know nothing about electricity and the load on a system. Besides the wattage, you have to supply up to 50 amps, to handle that spike that is created when a motor turns on, its called the electrical code.

Your mistake has nothing to do with math, you simply do not understand how your home works.

Sory , but my refrigerator doesn't use 500 watts each time it turns on.

I work on Nuclear power plants, I have been to the Salton Sea and worked on Geothermal plants, I have worked on CoGen plants as well. My company has inspected Solar Plants I have not, I have co-workers from other companies that have inspected Wind Turbines.

Nuclear is a mixed blessing. Arguably it has done more harm to humans than any other form of energy ( not in the US though).

"but my refrigerator doesn't use 500 watts each time it turns on."

Correct, it is in reference to one hour. Just like the 1 solar panel you think can run 1 refrigerator.

A 500 watt refrigerator needs a 1500 watt source, to turn on, once on it will use 500 watts, a hour.

The Solar Panel you linked to, the 300 watt panel, puts out only 205 watts according to specs. Factory max. is not the same as real world installed. You need 8 panels just to turn on the refrigerator, of course a 500 watt refrigerator is smaller than average, much smaller. Ever here of a reactive load, a reactive load takes three times the rated power, to start. Power is measured in watts.

According to code, you need a minimum of 6000 watts to power a house. If I am correct in thinking all one needs is one 50 amp circuit.

As far as your other post goes, right, I could go back and get your post, but I think your foot is about as far down your throat as you can handle.

http://pdf.wholesalesolar.com/module pdf folder/CHSM6612P-305_Specs.pdf

well actually new homes have been installing 100 amp service for years upon years. Just to run a vacuum requires 1500 watts.

 

[elektra]

You know nothing about electricity and the load on a system. Besides the wattage, you have to supply up to 50 amps, to handle that spike that is created when a motor turns on, its called the electrical code.

Your mistake has nothing to do with math, you simply do not understand how your home works.

Sory , but my refrigerator doesn't use 500 watts each time it turns on.

I work on Nuclear power plants, I have been to the Salton Sea and worked on Geothermal plants, I have worked on CoGen plants as well. My company has inspected Solar Plants I have not, I have co-workers from other companies that have inspected Wind Turbines.

Nuclear is a mixed blessing. Arguably it has done more harm to humans than any other form of energy ( not in the US though).

"but my refrigerator doesn't use 500 watts each time it turns on."

Correct, it is in reference to one hour. Just like the 1 solar panel you think can run 1 refrigerator.

A 500 watt refrigerator needs a 1500 watt source, to turn on, once on it will use 500 watts, a hour.

The Solar Panel you linked to, the 300 watt panel, puts out only 205 watts according to specs. Factory max. is not the same as real world installed. You need 8 panels just to turn on the refrigerator, of course a 500 watt refrigerator is smaller than average, much smaller. Ever here of a reactive load, a reactive load takes three times the rated power, to start. Power is measured in watts.

According to code, you need a minimum of 6000 watts to power a house. If I am correct in thinking all one needs is one 50 amp circuit.

As far as your other post goes, right, I could go back and get your post, but I think your foot is about as far down your throat as you can handle.

http://pdf.wholesalesolar.com/module pdf folder/CHSM6612P-305_Specs.pdf

well actually new homes have been installing 100 amp service for years upon years. Just to run a vacuum requires 1500 watts.

I figured as such, last house I touched had a 50 amp service, di-pole wiring.

 

[jc456]

You know nothing about electricity and the load on a system. Besides the wattage, you have to supply up to 50 amps, to handle that spike that is created when a motor turns on, its called the electrical code.

Your mistake has nothing to do with math, you simply do not understand how your home works.

Sory , but my refrigerator doesn't use 500 watts each time it turns on.

I work on Nuclear power plants, I have been to the Salton Sea and worked on Geothermal plants, I have worked on CoGen plants as well. My company has inspected Solar Plants I have not, I have co-workers from other companies that have inspected Wind Turbines.

Nuclear is a mixed blessing. Arguably it has done more harm to humans than any other form of energy ( not in the US though).

"but my refrigerator doesn't use 500 watts each time it turns on."

Correct, it is in reference to one hour. Just like the 1 solar panel you think can run 1 refrigerator.

A 500 watt refrigerator needs a 1500 watt source, to turn on, once on it will use 500 watts, a hour.

The Solar Panel you linked to, the 300 watt panel, puts out only 205 watts according to specs. Factory max. is not the same as real world installed. You need 8 panels just to turn on the refrigerator, of course a 500 watt refrigerator is smaller than average, much smaller. Ever here of a reactive load, a reactive load takes three times the rated power, to start. Power is measured in watts.

According to code, you need a minimum of 6000 watts to power a house. If I am correct in thinking all one needs is one 50 amp circuit.

As far as your other post goes, right, I could go back and get your post, but I think your foot is about as far down your throat as you can handle.

http://pdf.wholesalesolar.com/module pdf folder/CHSM6612P-305_Specs.pdf

well actually new homes have been installing 100 amp service for years upon years. Just to run a vacuum requires 1500 watts.

I figured as such, last house I touched had a 50 amp service, di-pole wiring.

two years ago I updated my service on my cottage to 100 amps.

 

[Syriusly]

lol,

a DESERT IS A FUCKING WASTE LAND. Most of the desert solar is built on isn't useable.

I've come to the conclusion that both parties in this country are full of people that are truly sick in the head.

A desert in Arizona produces cotton, A desert in California produces artichokes, there are birds and animals that live there, Butterflies and bugs.

Using the desert is using the desert.

A desert planted with cotton is as destroyed as 'pristine' desert' as is a desert with a solar plant.

You are against wind power and against solar power- and I have yet to see you oppose any 'traditional' power source.

Why?

 

[jc456]

because it isn't my program. and that renewables isn't working.

 

[CultureCitizen]

lol,

a DESERT IS A FUCKING WASTE LAND. Most of the desert solar is built on isn't useable.

I've come to the conclusion that both parties in this country are full of people that are truly sick in the head.

A desert in Arizona produces cotton, A desert in California produces artichokes, there are birds and animals that live there, Butterflies and bugs.

Using the desert is using the desert.

A desert planted with cotton is as destroyed as 'pristine' desert' as is a desert with a solar plant.

You are against wind power and against solar power- and I have yet to see you oppose any 'traditional' power source.

Why?

I think she favours 3+ generation nuclear reactors... personally stockpiling nuclare wastes makes me kind of unconfortable , nuclear safety improvements notwithstanding.

Somewhere I saw a TED talk of a scientist promoting nuclear ... he made a rather compelling speech , might be worth searching for it.

 

[ScienceRocks]

lol,

a DESERT IS A FUCKING WASTE LAND. Most of the desert solar is built on isn't useable.

I've come to the conclusion that both parties in this country are full of people that are truly sick in the head.

A desert in Arizona produces cotton, A desert in California produces artichokes, there are birds and animals that live there, Butterflies and bugs.

Using the desert is using the desert.

A desert planted with cotton is as destroyed as 'pristine' desert' as is a desert with a solar plant.

You are against wind power and against solar power- and I have yet to see you oppose any 'traditional' power source.

Why?

I think she favours 3+ generation nuclear reactors... personally stockpiling nuclare wastes makes me kind of unconfortable , nuclear safety improvements notwithstanding.

Somewhere I saw a TED talk of a scientist promoting nuclear ... he made a rather compelling speech , might be worth searching for it.

Why not firing the waste into the sun?

 

[Kosh]

lol,

a DESERT IS A FUCKING WASTE LAND. Most of the desert solar is built on isn't useable.

I've come to the conclusion that both parties in this country are full of people that are truly sick in the head.

A desert in Arizona produces cotton, A desert in California produces artichokes, there are birds and animals that live there, Butterflies and bugs.

Using the desert is using the desert.

A desert planted with cotton is as destroyed as 'pristine' desert' as is a desert with a solar plant.

You are against wind power and against solar power- and I have yet to see you oppose any 'traditional' power source.

Why?

See how the far left goes against their environmental buddies on such issues..

Goes to show the whole "destroying the environment" mantra of the far left is selective..

Destroying the environment is destroying the environment, so this another far left talking point shot down.

See how dangerous this religion is..

 

[Kosh]

lol,

a DESERT IS A FUCKING WASTE LAND. Most of the desert solar is built on isn't useable.

I've come to the conclusion that both parties in this country are full of people that are truly sick in the head.

A desert in Arizona produces cotton, A desert in California produces artichokes, there are birds and animals that live there, Butterflies and bugs.

Using the desert is using the desert.

A desert planted with cotton is as destroyed as 'pristine' desert' as is a desert with a solar plant.

You are against wind power and against solar power- and I have yet to see you oppose any 'traditional' power source.

Why?

I think she favours 3+ generation nuclear reactors... personally stockpiling nuclare wastes makes me kind of unconfortable , nuclear safety improvements notwithstanding.

Somewhere I saw a TED talk of a scientist promoting nuclear ... he made a rather compelling speech , might be worth searching for it.

Anything that has a half life of 5000 year stored in containers that are predicted to last 120 years should be nervous..

 

[Syriusly]

lol,

a DESERT IS A FUCKING WASTE LAND. Most of the desert solar is built on isn't useable.

I've come to the conclusion that both parties in this country are full of people that are truly sick in the head.

A desert in Arizona produces cotton, A desert in California produces artichokes, there are birds and animals that live there, Butterflies and bugs.

Using the desert is using the desert.

A desert planted with cotton is as destroyed as 'pristine' desert' as is a desert with a solar plant.

You are against wind power and against solar power- and I have yet to see you oppose any 'traditional' power source.

Why?

I think she favours 3+ generation nuclear reactors... personally stockpiling nuclare wastes makes me kind of unconfortable , nuclear safety improvements notwithstanding.

Somewhere I saw a TED talk of a scientist promoting nuclear ... he made a rather compelling speech , might be worth searching for it.

I think we should consider any electrical generation system and decide which ones to use. I am not specifically anti-nuclear- I think there are real issues to be concerned about regarding nuclear but it shouldn't be off the table.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

California's desert is fast becoming a Solar Wasteland, what was once pristine desert habitat is being replaced with Industrial Scale Solar.

Thanks to Obama and the State Government of California.

California solar projects plan undergoing major overhaul - SFGate

With billions of dollars in federal stimulus money in hand, the Obama administration set out five years ago on a grand experiment in the California desert.

The goal: Open public lands to renewable-energy development to wean the nation from fossil fuels.

The results haven't been pretty, a fact the administration has tacitly acknowledged by devising a new plan, expected to be released this month, to find better places to put industrial-scale solar farms in the California desert.

The solar plants were rushed through the environmental approval process. Miles of unspoiled desert lands were scraped and bulldozed to make way for sprawling arrays of solar panels. Desert tortoises required mass relocation, and kit fox burrows were destroyed. Surprise troves of American Indian artifacts found in the Mojave Desert were moved to a San Diego warehouse, where they remain.


And once it was built, the largest solar plant of its kind in the world - the Ivanpah installation in the Mojave - began igniting birds and monarch butterflies that fly through intensely concentrated, reflected sunbeams aimed at 40-story "power towers," according to a confidential report by federal wildlife officials.

Much is at stake. Several projects are proposed near the three big national parks of the California desert: a 23-square-mile wind and solar farm in the Silurian Valley near Death Valley; a 3,000-acre solar project at Soda Mountain near the Mojave National Preserve that would straddle a bighorn sheep corridor; and another project by BrightSource at Palen, near Joshua Tree NationalPark, that would be a bigger version of Ivanpah and be located in a bird migratory path.

Other conflicts are playing out elsewhere in the desert.

Brian Brown, fourth-generation owner of the China Ranch date farm, is one of the few residents of the Silurian Valley, a remote area at the southern end of Death Valley National Park that is the site of the proposed 15,000-acre wind and solar farm by the Spanish firm Iberdrola Renewables. The area is all but surrounded by federally protected wilderness and home to historic pioneer trails.

The Silurian Valley is "all big, long vistas and gorgeous purple and blue mountains," Brown said, views he believes will be destroyed by creating "a big industrial zone."

And all of this is just the beginning. We are forced to buy an expensive product literally created by the government.

I do not want Obama's and California Energy policy driving up the cost of food, which is what expensive Solar does in a state dependent on Electricity to pump water.

Destruction of the Desert and forced to pay more for food, while the Republicans created the EPA, now they need to create another Agency to protect the Environment from the Government

If this keeps up, pretty soon --

the desert will be a desert.

 

[koshergrl]

lol,

a DESERT IS A FUCKING WASTE LAND. Most of the desert solar is built on isn't useable.

I've come to the conclusion that both parties in this country are full of people that are truly sick in the head.

A desert in Arizona produces cotton, A desert in California produces artichokes, there are birds and animals that live there, Butterflies and bugs.

Using the desert is using the desert.

A desert planted with cotton is as destroyed as 'pristine' desert' as is a desert with a solar plant.

You are against wind power and against solar power- and I have yet to see you oppose any 'traditional' power source.

Why?

See how the far left goes against their environmental buddies on such issues..

Goes to show the whole "destroying the environment" mantra of the far left is selective..

Destroying the environment is destroying the environment, so this another far left talking point shot down.

See how dangerous this religion is..

only the gubmint is allowed to use/abuse/waste/develop resources.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

lol,

a DESERT IS A FUCKING WASTE LAND. Most of the desert solar is built on isn't useable.

I've come to the conclusion that both parties in this country are full of people that are truly sick in the head.

A desert in Arizona produces cotton, A desert in California produces artichokes, there are birds and animals that live there, Butterflies and bugs.

Using the desert is using the desert.

A desert planted with cotton is as destroyed as 'pristine' desert' as is a desert with a solar plant.

You are against wind power and against solar power- and I have yet to see you oppose any 'traditional' power source.

Why?

I think she favours 3+ generation nuclear reactors... personally stockpiling nuclare wastes makes me kind of unconfortable , nuclear safety improvements notwithstanding.

Somewhere I saw a TED talk of a scientist promoting nuclear ... he made a rather compelling speech , might be worth searching for it.

Anything that has a half life of 5000 year stored in containers that are predicted to last 120 years should be nervous..

Why should radioactive materials be nervous again?

 

[Syriusly]

lol,

a DESERT IS A FUCKING WASTE LAND. Most of the desert solar is built on isn't useable.

I've come to the conclusion that both parties in this country are full of people that are truly sick in the head.

A desert in Arizona produces cotton, A desert in California produces artichokes, there are birds and animals that live there, Butterflies and bugs.

Using the desert is using the desert.

A desert planted with cotton is as destroyed as 'pristine' desert' as is a desert with a solar plant.

You are against wind power and against solar power- and I have yet to see you oppose any 'traditional' power source.

Why?

I think she favours 3+ generation nuclear reactors... personally stockpiling nuclare wastes makes me kind of unconfortable , nuclear safety improvements notwithstanding.

Somewhere I saw a TED talk of a scientist promoting nuclear ... he made a rather compelling speech , might be worth searching for it.

Why not firing the waste into the sun?

Well I am not an expert on such things but off the top of my head:

a) spent nuclear rods are incredibly dense and heavy- and launching items into space is extraordinarily expensive - about $6,000 per lb.
b) rockets sometimes explode while being launched- not something you really want happening with radioactive waste.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Why not firing the waste into the sun?

That would take an awfull amount of energy.