Zone1 Sociopolitical debate vs group think

[candycorn]

Heil, Comrade Trump. The Qanon conspiracy of the extrem right is very clear.

And it's gotten laughable the extent they go to cloak their allegiance in threads such as this one.

 

[Foxfyre]

What are this so called expert's credentials?

He is the president of the Government Accountability Institute (GAI), senior editor-at-large of Breitbart News, and a former fellow at the Hoover Institution, seven times on the NYT best sellers list. He knows his stuff. The book is in no way partisan.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

He is partisan if he is at Breitbart, oh yes.

 

[Leo123]

Yes but the Hippies were not just rebels or contrarian. They completely dismissed the traditions and values of the previous generation and established their own language, terms, group think. They were the first generation to do so. It's probably best to discuss as a separate topic, but while the Hippies had little or no power, it is that group think that has infiltrated almost every aspect of our society that holds power or controls the public message. It has evolved into the most destructive group think that is used to control us now.

The hippies are now grown up and in government. They took their marching orders from Marx. Infiltrate, undermine and change.

 

[Foxfyre]

The hippies are now grown up and in government. They took their marching orders from Marx. Infiltrate, undermine and change.

That's where I get a little fuzzy on the history. Something had to be driving that movement since it was so similar with the same dress, languge, group think, behavior etc. and happening everywhere in the country all at the same time. But in all honesty I am not sure what the source was but I agree it was Marxist in effect.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Marxism is a social, political, and economic philosophy named after Karl Marx1234. It examines the effect of capitalism on labor, productivity, and economic development and argues for a worker revolution to overturn capitalism in favor of communism1. Marxism uses a materialist interpretation of historical development, better known as historical materialism, to understand class relations and social conflict and a dialectical perspective to view social transformation2.

AI Bing

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Historical materialism is a theory of history associated with the German economist and philosopher Karl Marx and his colleague Friedrich Engels. The theory postulates that all institutions of human society (e.g., government and religion) are the outgrowth of its economic activity. Consequently, social and political change occurs when those institutions cease to reflect the “mode of production”—that is, how the economy functions. Historical materialism is rooted in Marx and Engels’s philosophy of dialectical materialism, which posits that all things develop through material contradictions12.

AI Bing

 

[candycorn]

He is the president of the Government Accountability Institute (GAI), senior editor-at-large of Breitbart News, and a former fellow at the Hoover Institution, seven times on the NYT best sellers list. He knows his stuff. The book is in no way partisan.

The editor of Breitbart news is not partisan? LOL. Lady; you're crazy.

 

[Leo123]

That's where I get a little fuzzy on the history. Something had to be driving that movement since it was so similar with the same dress, languge, group think, behavior etc. and happening everywhere in the country all at the same time. But in all honesty I am not sure what the source was but I agree it was Marxist in effect.

The best I can describe it, having lived through it in SF and actually being in a band back then......It started as a protest against the Vietnam war and the 'battle cry' was 'peace and love.' Flowers in the hair and relaxed sex morays were also prevalent. IMO, the whole movement was an attempt to sort of create a new culture standing against war and aggression. The radical Marxists took advantage of that and turned it into a violent anti government/police movement. Most 'hippies' grew up and out of that and moved on to work and raise families. The real radicals, used their schooling to get government positions instead of real jobs and really never grew out of their hatred for 'the man.' Now they ARE 'the man' but think they are still revolutionaries.

 

[Foxfyre]

The best I can describe it, having lived through it in SF and actually being in a band back then......It started as a protest against the Vietnam war and the 'battle cry' was 'peace and love.' Flowers in the hair and relaxed sex morays were also prevalent. IMO, the whole movement was an attempt to sort of create a new culture standing against war and aggression. The radical Marxists took advantage of that and turned it into a violent anti government/police movement. Most 'hippies' grew up and out of that and moved on to work and raise families. The real radicals, used their schooling to get government positions instead of real jobs and really never grew out of their hatred for 'the man.' Now they ARE 'the man' but think they are still revolutionaries.

We're on the same page with most of that. I too lived the entire era and saw that most of the more shall we say dedicated hippies did become responsible citizens but they were mostly leftist in point of view and attitude and they went into fields not just government but also education, entertainment, media, scientific institutions, religious organizations--all places where they could have a voice and a message and 'make a difference.' It wasn't all that bad at first but they mentored like minded people who were increasingly left and polarized until the conservative/right wing point of view was mostly crowded out in all those message related fields. That's when the radicals moved in and took over all of it and a radical Marxist leftist group think became what they push as the 'norm.' Any 'heretics' to their doctrines must be subjected to the cancel culture and silenced or destroyed by any means necessary, fair or unfair, legal or illegal, justly or unjustly.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

He is the president of the Government Accountability Institute (GAI), senior editor-at-large of Breitbart News, and a former fellow at the Hoover Institution, seven times on the NYT best sellers list. He knows his stuff. The book is in no way partisan.

Really? The group that was part of the Clinton Conspiracy Agenda?

"The Government Accountability Institute (GAI) is a conservative nonprofit investigative research organization located in Tallahassee, Florida. GAI was founded in 2012. Peter Schweizer serves as the group's president. The group is known for its involvement with the publication of the investigative books Clinton Cash: The Untold Story of How and Why Foreign Governments and Businesses Helped Make Bill and Hillary Rich and Bush Bucks: How Public Service and Corporations Helped Make Jeb Rich." -- Summary retrieved on October 7, 2019 Government Accountability Institute

Library of Congress:

Government Accountability Institute

The Government Accountability Institute (GAI) is a conservative nonprofit investigative research organization located in Tallahassee, Florida. GAI was founded in 2012. Peter Schweizer serves as the group's president. The group is known for its involvement with the publication of the...

www.loc.gov

In 2012 Bannon and Peter Schweizer founded the Government Accountability Institute, a nonprofit organization that mounted investigations of prominent politicians with the intention of exposing wrongdoing, and distributed the results of its investigations through mainstream publishers and other media outlets, as it did with Schweizer’s inflammatory book Clinton Cash: The Untold Story of How and Why Foreign Governments and Businesses Helped Make Bill and Hillary Rich (2015). Bannon had begun a friendship in the early 2000s with Andrew Breitbart, founder of the provocative, antiestablishment, conservative website Breitbart.com, and, when Breitbart died suddenly in March 2012 on the eve of a relaunch of the website, Bannon assumed the role of executive chairman, taking an active hand in directing Breitbart News’s editorial vision. With Breitbart, Bannon, who self-identified as a populist, provided a platform for the “alt-right” (alternative right) movement, a loose association of relatively young white nationalists (who largely disavowed racism but celebrated “white” identity and lamented the alleged erosion of white political and economic power and the decline of white culture in the face of nonwhite immigration and multiculturalism), white supremacists, extreme libertarians, and neo-Nazis. Breitbart’s critics characterized it as racist, misogynist, and xenophobic.

Steve Bannon is nonpartisan?

Steve Bannon | Biography, Trump, Imprisonment, & Facts | Britannica

Steve Bannon is an American political strategist, media executive, and filmmaker who served (2017) as senior counselor and chief White House strategist for U.S. President Donald Trump. He previously was executive chairman at Breitbart, a provocative conservative website. Learn more about...

www.britannica.com

This is a prime example of why your so-called attempt to create a forum 'with a structured debate forum in which the OP could make the rules by which the debate would proceed' failed so badly. Using groupthink techniques, and using a disingenuous set of rules...

Zone1 - Sociopolitical debate vs group think

I liked the Bull Ring. But I remember people being terribly confused on how it worked, and confusing a 'Call out' for the thread meant to highlight a battle of opinions. It was intended to be a structured debate but too few understood the concept I think.

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Dante Reawakened]

We're on the same page with most of that. I too lived the entire era and saw that most of the more shall we say dedicated hippies did become responsible citizens but they were mostly leftist in point of view and attitude and they went into fields not just government but also education, entertainment, media, scientific institutions, religious organizations--all places where they could have a voice and a message and 'make a difference.' It wasn't all that bad at first but they mentored like minded people who were increasingly left and polarized until the conservative/right wing point of view was mostly crowded out in all those message related fields. That's when the radicals moved in and took over all of it and a radical Marxist leftist group think became what they push as the 'norm.' Any 'heretics' to their doctrines must be subjected to the cancel culture and silenced or destroyed by any means necessary, fair or unfair, legal or illegal, justly or unjustly.

Like Michael Alan Weiner (Savage), and the neocons who were once hippies?

 

[Foxfyre]

Really? The group that was part of the Clinton Conspiracy Agenda?




Library of Congress:

Government Accountability Institute

The Government Accountability Institute (GAI) is a conservative nonprofit investigative research organization located in Tallahassee, Florida. GAI was founded in 2012. Peter Schweizer serves as the group's president. The group is known for its involvement with the publication of the...

www.loc.gov

Steve Bannon is nonpartisan?

Steve Bannon | Biography, Trump, Imprisonment, & Facts | Britannica

Steve Bannon is an American political strategist, media executive, and filmmaker who served (2017) as senior counselor and chief White House strategist for U.S. President Donald Trump. He previously was executive chairman at Breitbart, a provocative conservative website. Learn more about...

www.britannica.com

This is a prime example of why your so-called attempt to create a forum 'with a structured debate forum in which the OP could make the rules by which the debate would proceed' failed so badly. Using groupthink techniques, and using a disingenuous set of rules...

Zone1 - Sociopolitical debate vs group think

I liked the Bull Ring. But I remember people being terribly confused on how it worked, and confusing a 'Call out' for the thread meant to highlight a battle of opinions. It was intended to be a structured debate but too few understood the concept I think.

www.usmessageboard.com

Not a single thing you posted makes Schweizer's book partisan. Now if you actually read the book and find that it is, you are free to quote the specific passages in it that make it partisan. Take your time because you'll have to strain at gnats to do that.

 

[Foxfyre]

Like Michael Alan Weiner (Savage), and the neocons who were once hippies?

And thanks for an excellent example one of the characteristics of group think that uses outliers or anecdotal evidence rather than actually addressing the topic or engaging in intelligent debate.

 

[otto105]

He is the president of the Government Accountability Institute (GAI), senior editor-at-large of Breitbart News, and a former fellow at the Hoover Institution, seven times on the NYT best sellers list. He knows his stuff. The book is in no way partisan.

Hilarious

 

[candycorn]

And thanks for an excellent example one of the characteristics of group think that uses outliers or anecdotal evidence rather than actually addressing the topic or engaging in intelligent debate.

One may call those "alternative facts"...a phrase dreamt up by Trump Aka your God.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The mass delusion of Trumpian identification by the masses and the group think that develops is explained below.

Bing AI
According to a Scientific American Behavior article, forensic psychiatrist Bandy X. Lee explains that Trump’s most ardent followers are driven by two major emotional drives: narcissistic symbiosis and shared psychosis. Narcissistic symbiosis refers to the developmental wounds that make the leader-follower relationship magnetically attractive. The leader, hungry for adulation to compensate for an inner lack of self-worth, projects grandiose omnipotence—while the followers, rendered needy by societal stress or developmental injury, yearn for a parental figure. Shared psychosis refers to the infectiousness of severe symptoms that goes beyond ordinary group psychology. When a highly symptomatic individual is placed in an influential position, the person’s symptoms can spread through the population through emotional bonds, heightening existing pathologies and inducing delusions, paranoia and propensity for violence 1.

A Psychology Today article reports that Trump’s most devoted followers tend to believe in a very specific idea of patriotism that includes international isolationism and xenophobia, under the guidance of a man who some claim was “chosen by God” to lead them 2.

 

[SavannahMann]

The problem isn’t just with debate. And it isn’t with one side or another. It is refusal to compromise.

An example from the Left. When Gore lost in 2000, his candidate for the Vice Presidency was Joseph Lieberman. The fledgling group Move On decided it was time to make the party pure for Liberals and Progressives. They spent money, a lot of money beating Lieberman in the Primary. Lieberman ran as an independent and won in the General.

But think about it. The Party threw their Vice President Candidate under the bus.

The Democrats wouldn’t compromise. They demanded party purity. At the time I suggested an obvious compromise. The Liberal and Libertarian position on Marijuana was identical. They had enough votes to make it happen if they would agree to work together on that one issue.

The answer was a resounding no. They wouldn’t even think of addressing that issue until they had 60 Democrats in the Senate, and were able to move past the cloture requirement.

The era upon us is absolute. You are either absolutely for me or absolutely against me. You dare not disagree with any position.

We stopped being reasonable. We stopped acknowledging the validity of an argument. We stopped talking and started shouting.

Both sides are driven by Revenge. And because of that we will never be a United nation again.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

And thanks for an excellent example one of the characteristics of group think that uses outliers or anecdotal evidence rather than actually addressing the topic or engaging in intelligent debate.

your links are all partisan bs

 

[Foxfyre]

your links are all partisan bs

Well some people are capable of independent and critical thinking and can evaluate whether a source is credible.

Others dismiss it as partisan BS and illustrate yet another example of mindless group think.