Society's Child

[sagegirl]

I have a few things to say about the sacred institution of motherhood/parenthood.
I will try to tie my statements to issues of the day and know that for some of you these opinions will not be taken well.
So I will start out with the premise that motherhood (parenthood) is a choice. The awesome task and work envolved is only offset by the wonderful rewards that are possible when the job is done well. So here are some of my observations. First of all not all parents step up to the challenge. Many are unprepared and unable to provide the nurturing and discipline that is absolutely necessary for raising children. For some women the need to have a child goes beyond the rational. Fertility clinics and surrogate programs have flooded our society with a dose of ethical issues that really cannot be resolved. Prenatal and neonatal care cost our healthcare system millions. The costs for the care of a challenged infant whether it be a preemie, a child born with physical problems, mental handicaps, drug addiction, aids, etc is staggering. Our society struggles with exactly what liability a woman has for her unborn child if she chooses to smoke, drink, whatever. Ob/gyns and hospitals have been stretched to the limit by the cost of their insurance. Pregnancy can be very risky and not all pregnancies result in healthy children. Once the child is here, if the parents are unable to meet the needs of the child , we as a society provide endless programs to assist . We have welfare, foster care, and institutionalization for the most problematical cases.
For what we consider the mainstream we provide subsidised day care, preschool, and a number of other programs to help children and parents be successful. We provide child protective services to insure(?????)
children are not abused or neglected. And unfortunately, when the family breaks up we have the family courts dealing with custody and child suppport issues. The issues of single parents, proportionately, mostly mothers, are constantly presented for special consideration. We provides schools and educational programs, and job programs and still thousands of young people drop out of school, run away from home, and end up on the streets. Then society has to protect itself and has a juvenile justice system to deal with these problems. About this time parents start disavowing responsibilty for their kids and leave it to the rest of us to deal with the mess. People who have kids get reduced healthcare premiums, public education, tax breaks and deductions, a virtual plethora of programs to aid and assist them. Some people consider this a job.......as I stated at the beginniing......it is a choice. I am tired of all the complaining and self pity some of you feel for yourselves. For most of us who have real jobs, if we complained as much, demanded as much special compensation and consideration, and produced such poor quality work we would be fired.

 

[dmp]

I have a few things to say about the sacred institution of motherhood/parenthood.
I will try to tie my statements to issues of the day and know that for some of you these opinions will not be taken well.
So I will start out with the premise that motherhood (parenthood) is a choice. The awesome task and work envolved is only offset by the wonderful rewards that are possible when the job is done well. So here are some of my observations. First of all not all parents step up to the challenge. Many are unprepared and unable to provide the nurturing and discipline that is absolutely necessary for raising children. For some women the need to have a child goes beyond the rational. Fertility clinics and surrogate programs have flooded our society with a dose of ethical issues that really cannot be resolved. Prenatal and neonatal care cost our healthcare system millions. The costs for the care of a challenged infant whether it be a preemie, a child born with physical problems, mental handicaps, drug addiction, aids, etc is staggering. Our society struggles with exactly what liability a woman has for her unborn child if she chooses to smoke, drink, whatever. Ob/gyns and hospitals have been stretched to the limit by the cost of their insurance. Pregnancy can be very risky and not all pregnancies result in healthy children. Once the child is here, if the parents are unable to meet the needs of the child , we as a society provide endless programs to assist . We have welfare, foster care, and institutionalization for the most problematical cases.
For what we consider the mainstream we provide subsidised day care, preschool, and a number of other programs to help children and parents be successful. We provide child protective services to insure(?????)
children are not abused or neglected. And unfortunately, when the family breaks up we have the family courts dealing with custody and child suppport issues. The issues of single parents, proportionately, mostly mothers, are constantly presented for special consideration. We provides schools and educational programs, and job programs and still thousands of young people drop out of school, run away from home, and end up on the streets. Then society has to protect itself and has a juvenile justice system to deal with these problems. About this time parents start disavowing responsibilty for their kids and leave it to the rest of us to deal with the mess. People who have kids get reduced healthcare premiums, public education, tax breaks and deductions, a virtual plethora of programs to aid and assist them. Some people consider this a job.......as I stated at the beginniing......it is a choice. I am tired of all the complaining and self pity some of you feel for yourselves. For most of us who have real jobs, if we complained as much, demanded as much special compensation and consideration, and produced such poor quality work we would be fired.

Do you have kids?

Oh...and 'kiss my ass' please for your 'I have a 'real job' comments. Those are pathetic. I'd argue working outside the home is 'easier'...not everyone has the balls to be a(n effective) parent.

 

[lilcountriegal]

I have a few things to say about the sacred institution of motherhood/parenthood.
I will try to tie my statements to issues of the day and know that for some of you these opinions will not be taken well.
So I will start out with the premise that motherhood (parenthood) is a choice. The awesome task and work envolved is only offset by the wonderful rewards that are possible when the job is done well. So here are some of my observations. First of all not all parents step up to the challenge. Many are unprepared and unable to provide the nurturing and discipline that is absolutely necessary for raising children. For some women the need to have a child goes beyond the rational. Fertility clinics and surrogate programs have flooded our society with a dose of ethical issues that really cannot be resolved. Prenatal and neonatal care cost our healthcare system millions. The costs for the care of a challenged infant whether it be a preemie, a child born with physical problems, mental handicaps, drug addiction, aids, etc is staggering. Our society struggles with exactly what liability a woman has for her unborn child if she chooses to smoke, drink, whatever. Ob/gyns and hospitals have been stretched to the limit by the cost of their insurance. Pregnancy can be very risky and not all pregnancies result in healthy children. Once the child is here, if the parents are unable to meet the needs of the child , we as a society provide endless programs to assist . We have welfare, foster care, and institutionalization for the most problematical cases.
For what we consider the mainstream we provide subsidised day care, preschool, and a number of other programs to help children and parents be successful. We provide child protective services to insure(?????)
children are not abused or neglected. And unfortunately, when the family breaks up we have the family courts dealing with custody and child suppport issues. The issues of single parents, proportionately, mostly mothers, are constantly presented for special consideration. We provides schools and educational programs, and job programs and still thousands of young people drop out of school, run away from home, and end up on the streets. Then society has to protect itself and has a juvenile justice system to deal with these problems. About this time parents start disavowing responsibilty for their kids and leave it to the rest of us to deal with the mess. People who have kids get reduced healthcare premiums, public education, tax breaks and deductions, a virtual plethora of programs to aid and assist them. Some people consider this a job.......as I stated at the beginniing......it is a choice. I am tired of all the complaining and self pity some of you feel for yourselves. For most of us who have real jobs, if we complained as much, demanded as much special compensation and consideration, and produced such poor quality work we would be fired.

Coming from a single mother, piss off.

I work a full time job to support myself and my daughter. I am also a full-time single mother. I see both sides of the spectrum and my "real job" [the one that gives me a paycheck] is a hell of alot easier than being a mother.

Until you become a mother and know what you're talking about, stuff a sock in it.

 

[NATO AIR]

i think maybe what sage is trying to say (in a less than flattering way, why judge some people on the board for things they post that have little to do with how they raise their children) that some people are allowed to duck responsbility and we, the taxpayer and society, foot the bill and cover the screwup.

i have a perfect, sickening example that has caused my normally liberal views (except abortion, which i oppose) on women's rights and viewpoints system shock. i don't think women should serve in the military anymore. here's why and its tied to what sage may be talking about.

nearly 1/3 of the females on my aircraft carrier (about 80 out of 260) have gotten pregnant to avoid deployments. most of them are unwed, and they just took a guy on the whim and got pregnant (some by less than honest means, i.e. poking holes through condoms, lying about birth control, holding the guy in when he tries to pull out, etc etc, i've heard it all in medical)

now the navy is footing for these babies who were born primarily so their lazy mothers wouldn't have to go underway... these kids are gonna be poorly raised in most cases and probably won't have a father. WTF is that?

 

[Joz]

i think maybe what sage is trying to say (in a less than flattering way.......

First, let her speak for herself. She doesn't seem to have a problem.

Second, sage, I agree with lil/gal. A 'real job'??? You'd better step very carefully on this one. I can assume your I.D. is in reference to the herb; you've just proven you are not wise.

We come to this board to share ideas, concerns, life opinions. Unless you're here to learn, I suggest you stay away from opening Pandora's box.

 

[NATO AIR]

why judge some people on the board for things they post that have little to do with how they raise their children.

that's why i said that, apparent arrogance and misguided assumption were killing the gist of what she said.

 

[dmp]

Ya know the irony here? There are times i'm messing w/ my wife; trying to get her pissed off, and I say "Why don't you go out and get a REAL job?!?"

She hates that.

 

[Joz]

.....and I say "Why don't you go out and get a REAL job?!?"

I admire her that she still lets you have the use of your legs. :happy2: :crutch:

 

[5stringJeff]

I have a few things to say about the sacred institution of motherhood/parenthood.
I will try to tie my statements to issues of the day and know that for some of you these opinions will not be taken well.
So I will start out with the premise that motherhood (parenthood) is a choice. The awesome task and work envolved is only offset by the wonderful rewards that are possible when the job is done well. So here are some of my observations. First of all not all parents step up to the challenge. Many are unprepared and unable to provide the nurturing and discipline that is absolutely necessary for raising children. For some women the need to have a child goes beyond the rational. Fertility clinics and surrogate programs have flooded our society with a dose of ethical issues that really cannot be resolved. Prenatal and neonatal care cost our healthcare system millions. The costs for the care of a challenged infant whether it be a preemie, a child born with physical problems, mental handicaps, drug addiction, aids, etc is staggering. Our society struggles with exactly what liability a woman has for her unborn child if she chooses to smoke, drink, whatever. Ob/gyns and hospitals have been stretched to the limit by the cost of their insurance. Pregnancy can be very risky and not all pregnancies result in healthy children. Once the child is here, if the parents are unable to meet the needs of the child , we as a society provide endless programs to assist . We have welfare, foster care, and institutionalization for the most problematical cases.
For what we consider the mainstream we provide subsidised day care, preschool, and a number of other programs to help children and parents be successful. We provide child protective services to insure(?????)
children are not abused or neglected. And unfortunately, when the family breaks up we have the family courts dealing with custody and child suppport issues. The issues of single parents, proportionately, mostly mothers, are constantly presented for special consideration. We provides schools and educational programs, and job programs and still thousands of young people drop out of school, run away from home, and end up on the streets. Then society has to protect itself and has a juvenile justice system to deal with these problems. About this time parents start disavowing responsibilty for their kids and leave it to the rest of us to deal with the mess. People who have kids get reduced healthcare premiums, public education, tax breaks and deductions, a virtual plethora of programs to aid and assist them. Some people consider this a job.......as I stated at the beginniing......it is a choice. I am tired of all the complaining and self pity some of you feel for yourselves. For most of us who have real jobs, if we complained as much, demanded as much special compensation and consideration, and produced such poor quality work we would be fired.

While you are right in saying that parenting is a choice (except for rape victims) and that many parents shirk their duties, your conclusions are ridiculous. Being a parent is a hell of a job, which most of us do after we come home from a paying job. But being a parent is also extremely rewarding, which frankly offsets most (if not all) of the hassles of parenting.

Based on your inane conclusion, sagegirl, I am forced to believe that you think that parenting is a no-brainer and something that requires little effort. People with attitudes like yours end up having kids in the very programs (juvenile courts, CPS, socialized healthcare, etc.) that you complain about. So please, for your sake and mine, do not have sex with anyone for any reason whatsoever until you lose the "parenting is easy" attitude.

 

[sagegirl]

First, let her speak for herself. She doesn't seem to have a problem.

Second, sage, I agree with lil/gal. A 'real job'??? You'd better step very carefully on this one. I can assume your I.D. is in reference to the herb; you've just proven you are not wise.

We come to this board to share ideas, concerns, life opinions. Unless you're here to learn, I suggest you stay away from opening Pandora's box.

I tried to express myself in a thoughtful and structured manner. My last comment as regards a real job refers to the expectations and demands whether reasonable or not that are put upon all of us in the workplace, outside the home. Within that context, a person is basically expected to perform their expected tasks, and doesnt have much say about the proiorities of their employer. Fortunately, workers have been able to form unions that have made conditions better for workers, and some companies are much more interested in what their employees have to say. The better the education you have upon entering the work force the better your chances are of being listened to. Sorry to say many workers without any education beyond high school are sometimes getting the worst of it and have to least to say about it. I did not try to discredit the job of raising children. I think it is a formidable task. It is a challenge that takes patience and wisdom, it should be done with love. I dont like it if a parent takes to whining about it.

 

[dmp]

My last comment as regards a real job refers to the expectations and demands whether reasonable or not that are put upon all of us in the workplace, outside the home. Within that context, a person is basically expected to perform their expected tasks, and doesnt have much say about the proiorities of their employer.

...uh...but 'you' can simply quit. There is no such thing as a 'two-week notice' in parenthood; no matter how bad things get.

 

[sagegirl]

While you are right in saying that parenting is a choice (except for rape victims) and that many parents shirk their duties, your conclusions are ridiculous. Being a parent is a hell of a job, which most of us do after we come home from a paying job. But being a parent is also extremely rewarding, which frankly offsets most (if not all) of the hassles of parenting.

Based on your inane conclusion, sagegirl, I am forced to believe that you think that parenting is a no-brainer and something that requires little effort. People with attitudes like yours end up having kids in the very programs (juvenile courts, CPS, socialized healthcare, etc.) that you complain about. So please, for your sake and mine, do not have sex with anyone for any reason whatsoever until you lose the "parenting is easy" attitude.

People like me make the choice to not have children, and I dont have any disrepect for those who do and take the "JOB" seriously. Just a little personal info, got married in 1968 and am still married, now 55. I did work for many years outside the home, in a technical position in electronics that quite frankly employed very few women. I was often paid less than my male counterparts and often times worked harder and accomplished more than they did. I am happy to say that I have been able to "retire" early, my husband is still working bless his heart,and I donate time to help seniors in my community.

 

[Mr. P]

sagegirl,... girl, didn't your daddy ever teach ya not to bang on a hornets nest?
I have a question. You said.......

I dont like it if a parent takes to whining about it.

Have you ever bitched about your job? Just once maybe? Yes...
kinda normal isn't it?

 

[sagegirl]

Arrogance sucks!

I have seen alot of arrogance and attitude on these boards. I would not run from any thoughtful discussion on any of the issues I raise.

 

[lilcountriegal]

I have seen alot of arrogance and attitude on these boards. I would not run from any thoughtful discussion on any of the issues I raise.

Then how about sticking to "issues" you know something about. By your own admission, parenting is not one of them.

 

[dmp]

Here's the problem Sagey...

Your "People Like Me" comments are so blatantly arrogant; they are transparent. When people read and hear those types - YOUR types of statements our first thoughts are something like "I'd like a sandwhich - and WOW - there is ONE lady who regrets never having kids..."

 

[sagegirl]

sagegirl,... girl, didn't your daddy ever teach ya not to bang on a hornets nest?
I have a question. You said.......



Have you ever bitched about your job? Just once maybe? Yes...
kinda normal isn't it?

Oh yes, I did. But I didnt let that affect my performance or my determination. I was well prepare to do the job that was expected of me and always took pride in my work. I was always outspoken and my coworkers sometimes found me on their side and sometimes not. I have banged on many hornets nest in my time.....and I've been stung too. I am only here to state my opinions and you are free to express yours too.

 

[sagegirl]

well I see modesty follows arrogance!

Im not always right ......but Im never in doubt.

 

[Mr. P]

I am only here to state my opinions and you are free to express yours too.

Now you didn't have to go an say that...geeezzzzzzzz
But ahhhhh .....Thanks for the permission.

 

[Said1]

Some people consider this a job.......as I stated at the beginniing......it is a choice. I am tired of all the complaining and self pity some of you feel for yourselves. For most of us who have real jobs, if we complained as much, demanded as much special compensation and consideration, and produced such poor quality work we would be fired.

I tried to express myself in a thoughtful and structured manner. My last comment as regards a real job refers to the expectations and demands whether reasonable or not that are put upon all of us in the workplace, outside the home. Within that context, a person is basically expected to perform their expected tasks, and doesnt have much say about the proiorities of their employer. Fortunately, workers have been able to form unions that have made conditions better for workers, and some companies are much more interested in what their employees have to say. The better the education you have upon entering the work force the better your chances are of being listened to. Sorry to say many workers without any education beyond high school are sometimes getting the worst of it and have to least to say about it. I did not try to discredit the job of raising children. I think it is a formidable task. It is a challenge that takes patience and wisdom, it should be done with love. I dont like it if a parent takes to whining about it.

After reading both your comments, I'm still not sure where you stand, is parenting a real job or not? Like THK, your comments offended a lot of people who are parents, including myself. I'm sure you are fully aware of that fact that people get stressed out, especially single mothers working full time, and going to school - like myself. Sometimes I feel like quiting, but I don't beacuse I know ALL the hard work I put in will payoff...eventually...I hope. Anyway, if I want to complain about how tired I am, I will, because I am. Just like you enjoy complaining about people complaining, I like to bitch about being tired once in awhile. There are whiners everywhere, and frankly, sometimes the things we dislike in others mirror traits in ourselves that we dislike - tis true, they teach you that in rehab. :funnyface