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The government pays for it.
Is that NOT the complaint that most of the detractors of medicade and medicare have about THAT system?
But even if it did allow rationing, how is that different from their proposal? It isn't.
Because Ryan's proposal actually works and the Obamacare solution just makes things worse?
Ryan's proposal doesn't work. It just takes costs being borne by taxpayers today and pushes them on the backs of seniors. Ryan's plan will result in either worse health outcomes for seniors (since they won't be able to afford coverage) or vastly more expensive system (since subsidies, if they equal the cost of insurance, will be more expensive than just keep traditional Medicare in place).
But even if it did allow rationing, how is that different from their proposal? It isn't.
Because Ryan's proposal actually works and the Obamacare solution just makes things worse?
Ryan's proposal doesn't work. It just takes costs being borne by taxpayers today and pushes them on the backs of seniors. Ryan's plan will result in either worse health outcomes for seniors (since they won't be able to afford coverage) or vastly more expensive system (since subsidies, if they equal the cost of insurance, will be more expensive than just keep traditional Medicare in place).
I AM enrolled in a socialized HC system and I LIKE it!
I think it a damned shame that so many of my fellow citizens do not have access to the same system I have.
I am a VETERAN and the system I have YOU folks pay for.
Thank you very much.
How is that 'socialized medicine'? Every definition I read indicates that socialize medicine provides for all of society. Not just s select few. The VA system is the opposite of socialized health care.
The government pays for it.
Is that NOT the complaint that most of the detractors of medicade and medicare have about THAT system?
That it's socialism?
Well if medicade and medicare are socialized medicine, surely the VETERANS HC system is likewise SOCIALIALIZED medicine, too.
Like I say...I have socialized medicine, I like it, and I want to THANK my fellow citizens for being generous enough to provide it to me, and to many others who post in this place, too.
Is it socialized medicine if you earn it as part of your pay?
I don't think so.....
Yes, it's still socialized medicine. They are cutting out expensive insurance companies who don't do anything except create death panels, skim policies because the have a "profit motive", and lobby to deregulate and buy politicians to remove laws that protect consumers. Insurance companies aren't altruistic and charitable organizations. They grub and scrape for every cent they can squeeze out of the American public. That's their only purpose.
Our VA health care is considered the best in the world. Sure, you may have a dirty hospital, but for the most part, it's A Number 1.
And how do they do it? They spend about 94 cents for every dollar on the patient. They have a national data base. Info from every person that is treated goes into this data base. The next doctor that treats a patient can look up the symptoms, the treatment. How effective it was. Insurance companies don't have this. Because they don't care. For them, it's all about making money.
Here is an example of just part of one data base.
http://www.rehab.research.va.gov/jour/02/39/1/pdf/walter.pdf
The data base, started under Bill Clinton, is available to US Armed forces world wide.
Medical Communications for Combat Casualty Care (MC4) - About
Imagine how much money insurance companies could save with access to this data base. They don't use it because they don't care. It's not about "saving" money. It's about "squeezing it out of the American people".
Is it socialized medicine if you earn it as part of your pay?
I don't think so.....
Yes, it's still socialized medicine. They are cutting out expensive insurance companies who don't do anything except create death panels, skim policies because the have a "profit motive", and lobby to deregulate and buy politicians to remove laws that protect consumers. Insurance companies aren't altruistic and charitable organizations. They grub and scrape for every cent they can squeeze out of the American public. That's their only purpose.
Our VA health care is considered the best in the world. Sure, you may have a dirty hospital, but for the most part, it's A Number 1.
And how do they do it? They spend about 94 cents for every dollar on the patient. They have a national data base. Info from every person that is treated goes into this data base. The next doctor that treats a patient can look up the symptoms, the treatment. How effective it was. Insurance companies don't have this. Because they don't care. For them, it's all about making money.
Here is an example of just part of one data base.
http://www.rehab.research.va.gov/jour/02/39/1/pdf/walter.pdf
The data base, started under Bill Clinton, is available to US Armed forces world wide.
Medical Communications for Combat Casualty Care (MC4) - About
Imagine how much money insurance companies could save with access to this data base. They don't use it because they don't care. It's not about "saving" money. It's about "squeezing it out of the American people".
Because Ryan's proposal actually works and the Obamacare solution just makes things worse?
Ryan's proposal doesn't work. It just takes costs being borne by taxpayers today and pushes them on the backs of seniors. Ryan's plan will result in either worse health outcomes for seniors (since they won't be able to afford coverage) or vastly more expensive system (since subsidies, if they equal the cost of insurance, will be more expensive than just keep traditional Medicare in place).
And Obamacare simply cuts Medicare spending by the same amount without giving seniors any options to get additional coverage. Can you explain why you think it is better?
Ryan's proposal doesn't work. It just takes costs being borne by taxpayers today and pushes them on the backs of seniors. Ryan's plan will result in either worse health outcomes for seniors (since they won't be able to afford coverage) or vastly more expensive system (since subsidies, if they equal the cost of insurance, will be more expensive than just keep traditional Medicare in place).
And Obamacare simply cuts Medicare spending by the same amount without giving seniors any options to get additional coverage. Can you explain why you think it is better?
You're asking a question based on a false premise.
I AM enrolled in a socialized HC system and I LIKE it!
I think it a damned shame that so many of my fellow citizens do not have access to the same system I have.
I am a VETERAN and the system I have YOU folks pay for.
Thank you very much.
How is that 'socialized medicine'? Every definition I read indicates that socialize medicine provides for all of society. Not just s select few. The VA system is the opposite of socialized health care.
And Obamacare simply cuts Medicare spending by the same amount without giving seniors any options to get additional coverage. Can you explain why you think it is better?
You're asking a question based on a false premise.
My premise is that Obamacare includes Medicare savings that amount to the exact same amount of money that Ryan is calling for. If my premise is false you should be supply numbers that show that one plan or the other is calling for higher spending.
Please, educate me.
You're asking a question based on a false premise.
My premise is that Obamacare includes Medicare savings that amount to the exact same amount of money that Ryan is calling for. If my premise is false you should be supply numbers that show that one plan or the other is calling for higher spending.
Please, educate me.
That premise is false. IMAB, under the Affordable Care Act, holds Medicare growth to GDP + 1. Ryan's plan holds it to GDP. GDP + 1 is not the same as GDP.
No. "Socialized medicine" deals with the delivery mechanism, not how broadly service is delivered.
Is it socialized medicine if you earn it as part of your pay?
I don't think so.....
I read that Medicare's administrative costs is far lower than commercial for profit medical services.
My premise is that Obamacare includes Medicare savings that amount to the exact same amount of money that Ryan is calling for. If my premise is false you should be supply numbers that show that one plan or the other is calling for higher spending.
Please, educate me.
That premise is false. IMAB, under the Affordable Care Act, holds Medicare growth to GDP + 1. Ryan's plan holds it to GDP. GDP + 1 is not the same as GDP.
Numbers, not sound bites.
I read that Medicare's administrative costs is far lower than commercial for profit medical services.
That is because Medicare gets to shove its administrative costs off into trick accounting that private companies are prohibited from using because they are illegal.
That premise is false. IMAB, under the Affordable Care Act, holds Medicare growth to GDP + 1. Ryan's plan holds it to GDP. GDP + 1 is not the same as GDP.
Numbers, not sound bites.
Those are numbers...
I read that Medicare's administrative costs is far lower than commercial for profit medical services.
That is because Medicare gets to shove its administrative costs off into trick accounting that private companies are prohibited from using because they are illegal.
No, it's because very large bodies have bargaining power that allows them to push for things on their terms.
