Socialized Medicine

[babosam]

Socialized medicine
Do you know that congress has socialized medicine? So does the postal service and armed forces and veterans hospital workers and federal workers of all kinds. The government pays for their medical aide and prescriptions at a very, very low cost to the individual. Their retirement is among the best you can get paid for by the government. The government controls the cost of doctor visits, treatment and prescription. Guess what is the biggest socialized medicine received. Medicare! Social Security!
We pay 8,000.00 per person in medical and second largest is Canada at 4,000.00. Half the cost
Then Germany, France at about 3,000.00 and 2,000.00 and they are doing just fine.

 

[shintao]

Socialized medicine
Do you know that congress has socialized medicine? So does the postal service and armed forces and veterans hospital workers and federal workers of all kinds. The government pays for their medical aide and prescriptions at a very, very low cost to the individual. Their retirement is among the best you can get paid for by the government. The government controls the cost of doctor visits, treatment and prescription. Guess what is the biggest socialized medicine received. Medicare! Social Security!
We pay 8,000.00 per person in medical and second largest is Canada at 4,000.00. Half the cost
Then Germany, France at about 3,000.00 and 2,000.00 and they are doing just fine.

But they are socialologically flawed.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Is it socialized medicine if you earn it as part of your pay?

I don't think so.....

 

[frazzledgear]

Socialized medicine
Do you know that congress has socialized medicine? So does the postal service and armed forces and veterans hospital workers and federal workers of all kinds. The government pays for their medical aide and prescriptions at a very, very low cost to the individual. Their retirement is among the best you can get paid for by the government. The government controls the cost of doctor visits, treatment and prescription. Guess what is the biggest socialized medicine received. Medicare! Social Security!
We pay 8,000.00 per person in medical and second largest is Canada at 4,000.00. Half the cost
Then Germany, France at about 3,000.00 and 2,000.00 and they are doing just fine.

You think GOVERNMENT is paying for it? Because what? You think government GIVES us stuff? All good things come from...GOVERNMENT? You can't figure out why the rest of us DON'T have it? I hate to break the bad news to you -but their ELITIST medical plan that you and I are forbidden from having -is being paid for by us. Not government. Government gets its money from.....us. The reason you and I have to pay for it but can't have it ourselves is if we put 350 million on that identical elitist plan, it would collapse. Congress only gets it because they created and reserved it for THEMSELVES -while sticking us with the tab. The same one that also pays them "retirement" pay for LIFE after serving just five years in office. This is exactly what they have done in Cuba too -deliberately created a two-tiered health care system where the ruling elite have WONDERFUL care. It is the one tourists see and have access to if needed while there. But the ones stuck paying for it are FORBIDDEN from using it all and instead shunted off to deteriorating shacks called "clinics" where they enjoy a nonstop shortage of supplies and qualified staff. Isn't it great when the people receiving all the best benefits get to write their OWN ticket for life? But the ones stuck with the tab get the shaft? Don't you wish it was that way at YOUR job?

Destroy our system and it isn't just Americans who will really suffer for it. 90% of ALL medical advancements in the world -come from OUR system. THAT is a HUGE indictment of socialized medicine. Nations around the globe benefit by OUR medical advancements. If ours is SO terrible -then how is that possible that it is responsible for 90% of all medical advancements in the WORLD? They DON'T come from the socialized system you leftwing extremist whackos think is superior. They ain't coming from Canada, the UK, China, France and Germany. I noticed you failed to mention the health care system the British are "enjoying" -especially now that the morbidity and mortality rates for diseases that are still dropping in this country -are on the RISE there, meaning people are MORE likely to die from them or the complications these diseases than they did before. Looks like waiting two years before you can see a doctor does have its downside after all, huh? And France is facing bankruptcy of its health care system and their government is trying to figure out how to go about PRIVATIZING it again.

With socialized medicine you get ONLY one of two things. You either end up with a system that fails to provide quality care so everyone really pays for it by seeing the quality of their own care drop and even their life expectancy -or you get one with a short life expectancy because it will go bankrupt even faster than the lousy one. These are your ONLY two choices with socialized health care. And most choose to IMPOSE poor quality care for all (except the elite again of course who stick us with the tab) because it will have a longer life expectancy before it too goes bankrupt anyway.

Obama is CUTTING $500 BILLION from Medicare -intent on forcing the elderly to take it right in the shorts. AND his bill calls for the creation of a panel to force the rationing of health care to the elderly -which only means that panel will exist for the purpose of DENYING medical care to some. The UNEQUAL treatment by government of its own citizens whereby some will get certain treatments and drugs -and others will not. Gee, do you really think THAT is Constitutional? For our government to treat its own citizens in an unequal manner based on their AGE? In the UK this is already being done -and people are being denied things like hip transplants and forced to spend their remaining years in a wheelchair. And the age cutoff at which point they are being denied a hip transplant is STILL dropping. Even though the earlier one ends up in a wheelchair, the more likely they are to die at an earlier age. See how that works out so nice when you need the elderly to just die? People are deliberately being denied curative treatment for things like SKIN CANCER because it is deemed to be "not cost effective"-which is a decision to MAKE them die of a disease that is CURABLE if its just TREATED or deliberately INCREASE their suffering while they are sick from some other condition already! Like I said -with socialized health care you get one of two things -a bankrupt system as France is rapidly approaching. Or a despicable, low quality system as the British have -which is only postponing its own bankruptcy with that low quality care, not avoiding it. Democrats with the passage of Obamacare and the massive schedule cut in Medicare and creation of a death/rationing panel have made it clear which one of the two options they pick.

Even while Democrats campaign on the lie Republicans are trying to destroy it, Democrats themselves have laid the groundwork to cut the legs out from under it and make sure it becomes a system that fails to deliver quality care and then we too can enjoy seeing our morbidity and mortality rates do a 180 like they are in the UK. In PRACTICE, socialized medicine INCREASES human suffering because it is a system that INVARIABLY rations health care based on cost effectiveness as "cost effect" is defined by some ruling elite. Instead of whether it will improve the quality of life -which becomes a non-issue under socialized medicine. In the UK if someone isn't expected to live at least another 12 years, their quality of life for those remaining years is IRRELEVANT.

The rest of your argument is bs. Social Security is not "socialized medicine" and it isn't even an entitlement program although Democrats want to turn it into one. It isn't a health care program at all. It is a retirement insurance program that is run by government intended to pay a monthly retirement stipend. You don't pay into it, you don't get it -period. It is broke for one reason and one reason ONLY. Government used that money for its other projects and when it did, it IMMEDIATELY turned that insurance policy into nothing but a PYRAMID SCHEME. If a private company had done what our own government did, people would have been thrown into prison and DESERVED IT!

 

[Greenbeard]

AND his bill calls for the creation of a panel to force the rationing of health care to the elderly -which only means that panel will exist for the purpose of DENYING medical care to some.

Would that be the body that's forbidden in the statute from even recommending any kind of rationing? ("REQUIREMENTS- Each proposal submitted under this section in a proposal year shall meet each of the following requirements: [...] `(ii) The proposal shall not include any recommendation to ration health care..."). You've been listening to too much of Paul Ryan's demagoguery.

 

[Polk]

AND his bill calls for the creation of a panel to force the rationing of health care to the elderly -which only means that panel will exist for the purpose of DENYING medical care to some.

Would that be the body that's forbidden in the statute from even recommending any kind of rationing? ("REQUIREMENTS- Each proposal submitted under this section in a proposal year shall meet each of the following requirements: [...] `(ii) The proposal shall not include any recommendation to ration health care..."). You've been listening to too much of Paul Ryan's demagoguery.

But even if it did allow rationing, how is that different from their proposal? It isn't.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Socialized medicine
Do you know that congress has socialized medicine? So does the postal service and armed forces and veterans hospital workers and federal workers of all kinds. The government pays for their medical aide and prescriptions at a very, very low cost to the individual. Their retirement is among the best you can get paid for by the government. The government controls the cost of doctor visits, treatment and prescription. Guess what is the biggest socialized medicine received. Medicare! Social Security!
We pay 8,000.00 per person in medical and second largest is Canada at 4,000.00. Half the cost
Then Germany, France at about 3,000.00 and 2,000.00 and they are doing just fine.

That depends on how you define socialism. The proper definition of socialism is a public provision of a non public good, and it also has use central planning to accomplish it.

While it is true that the government pays for health care for members of Congress, they do not use central planning to accomplish it. They simply offer them the exact same plans that are offered to all federal employees, and gives them many options to chose from.

Obamacare, on the other hand, does both and is therefore socialism.

Can somebody please explain to me why the same people who are happy to point out that the techniques that work in small scale do not always work in a large scale if it is something they do not like are so willing to argue the opposite when it is something they do like? The reason this works for other countries is that they are small, and can easily control all t he various factors that make up the complex web of health care they deal with. If socialized health care is so good why did the Canadian Supreme Court order the government to privatize health care to improve services?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

AND his bill calls for the creation of a panel to force the rationing of health care to the elderly -which only means that panel will exist for the purpose of DENYING medical care to some.

Would that be the body that's forbidden in the statute from even recommending any kind of rationing? ("REQUIREMENTS- Each proposal submitted under this section in a proposal year shall meet each of the following requirements: [...] `(ii) The proposal shall not include any recommendation to ration health care..."). You've been listening to too much of Paul Ryan's demagoguery.

No, that would be the body that, by law, is mandated to make Medicare costs go down by reducing payments to doctors and hospitals to the point where they are getting less than they would under Medicaid. The fact that they are supposed to do this without rationing care just proves that the entire idea is nothing but smoke and mirrors, but thanks for playing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

AND his bill calls for the creation of a panel to force the rationing of health care to the elderly -which only means that panel will exist for the purpose of DENYING medical care to some.

Would that be the body that's forbidden in the statute from even recommending any kind of rationing? ("REQUIREMENTS- Each proposal submitted under this section in a proposal year shall meet each of the following requirements: [...] `(ii) The proposal shall not include any recommendation to ration health care..."). You've been listening to too much of Paul Ryan's demagoguery.

But even if it did allow rationing, how is that different from their proposal? It isn't.

Because Ryan's proposal actually works and the Obamacare solution just makes things worse?

 

[Douger]

The taxes I pay ( in three countries) also cover my health care, dental, optical and prescriptions included.
You get IsNtReal, primates in Africastan and endless war.........corporate subsidies are also high on duh list.

Actually a spider bit me about an hour ago and it aint looking good. I'll head to the clinic in a little while and get fixed up.No matter what / it won't take one peso from my pocket. I already paid. As you idiots did. The difference is, I know that I get what I pay for ( and more).

Young people pay in . We take out.
It'll be their turn in 30 years.
That's socialism.

 

[sparky]

for the definitionally challenged>

Socialized medicine is a term used to describe a system for providing medical and hospital care for all at a nominal cost by means of government regulation of health services and subsidies derived from taxation.[1] It is used primarily and usually pejoratively in United States political debates concerning health care, because of the U.S. culture's historically negative associations with socialism

<snip>

More recently, American conservative critics of health care reform have attempted to broaden the term by applying it to any publicly-funded system. Canada's Medicare system and most of the UK's NHS general practitioner and dental services, which are systems where health care is delivered by private business with partial or total government funding, fit this broader definition, as do the health care systems of most of Western Europe. In the United States, Medicare, Medicaid, and the US military's TRICARE fall under this definition

<snip>

Government involvement in health care was ardently opposed by the AMA which distributed posters to doctors with slogans such as "Socialized medicine ... will undermine the democratic form of government."[28] According to T.R. Reid (The Healing of America, 2009):

"The term ['socialized medicine'] was popularized by a public relations firm working for the American Medical Association in 1947 to disparage President Truman's proposal for a national health care system. It was a label, at the dawn of the cold war, meant to suggest that anybody advocating universal access to health care must be a communist. And the phrase has retained its political power for six decades."[8][9]


<snip>

The term is often used by conservatives in the U.S to imply that the privately-run health care system would become controlled by the government, thereby associating it with socialism, which has negative connotations to some people in American political culture.[18] As such its usage is controversial, and at odds with the views of conservatives in other countries prepared to defend socialized medicine such as Margaret Thatcher. Critics of this usage such as journalist David Simon argue that broadly, any form of group insurance can be described as a collective act of socialism


<snip>


The term is widely used by the American media and pressure groups. Some have even stretched use of the term to cover any regulation of health care, whether publicly financed or not.
The term is often used to criticize publicly provided health care outside the US, but rarely to describe similar health care programs in the US, such as the Veterans Administration clinics and hospitals, military health care, nor the single payer programs such as Medicaid and Medicare. Many conservatives use the term to evoke negative sentiment toward health care reform that would involve increasing government involvement in the U.S health care system

<snip>

There is a frequent misunderstanding to think that waiting happens in places like England and Canada but does not happen in the United States. For instance it is not uncommon even for emergency cases in some U.S. hospitals to be boarded on beds in hallways for 48 hours or more due to lack of inpatient beds and people in the U.S. rationed out by being unable to afford their care are simply never counted and may never receive the care they need, a factor that is often overlooked.

Statistics about waiting times in national systems are an honest approach to the issue of those waiting for access to care. Everyone waiting for care is reflected in the data which, in the UK for example, are used to inform debate, decision-making and research within Government and the wider community.
Some people in the U.S are rationed out of care by unaffordable care or denial of access by HMOs and insurers or simply because they cannot afford co-pays or deductibles even if they have insurance.[163] These people wait an indefinitely long period and may never get care they need, but actual numbers are simply unknown because they are not recorded in official statistics.[164]

Socialized medicine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dblack]

I don't see any definition that encompasses the examples cited in the OP.

 

[Greenbeard]

While it is true that the government pays for health care for members of Congress, they do not use central planning to accomplish it. They simply offer them the exact same plans that are offered to all federal employees, and gives them many options to chose from.

The FEHBP is an insurance exchange operated by a federal agency that acts as an active purchaser, directly contracting with insurers that wish to offer plans through the exchange.

State exchanges under the ACA can choose to operate the same way, or they can use less hands-on operating models ("States have a range of options for how the Exchange operates from an “active purchaser” model, in which the Exchange operates as large employers often do in using market leverage and the tools of managed competition to negotiate product offerings with insurers, to an “open marketplace” model, in which the Exchange operates as a clearinghouse that is open to all qualified insurers and relies on market forces to generate product offerings.")

Because Ryan's proposal actually works and the Obamacare solution just makes things worse?

Works at what?

 

[editec]

I AM enrolled in a socialized HC system and I LIKE it!

I think it a damned shame that so many of my fellow citizens do not have access to the same system I have.

I am a VETERAN and the system I have YOU folks pay for.

Thank you very much.

 

[Polk]

Would that be the body that's forbidden in the statute from even recommending any kind of rationing? ("REQUIREMENTS- Each proposal submitted under this section in a proposal year shall meet each of the following requirements: [...] `(ii) The proposal shall not include any recommendation to ration health care..."). You've been listening to too much of Paul Ryan's demagoguery.

But even if it did allow rationing, how is that different from their proposal? It isn't.

Because Ryan's proposal actually works and the Obamacare solution just makes things worse?

Ryan's proposal doesn't work. It just takes costs being borne by taxpayers today and pushes them on the backs of seniors. Ryan's plan will result in either worse health outcomes for seniors (since they won't be able to afford coverage) or vastly more expensive system (since subsidies, if they equal the cost of insurance, will be more expensive than just keep traditional Medicare in place).

 

[dblack]

I AM enrolled in a socialized HC system and I LIKE it!

I think it a damned shame that so many of my fellow citizens do not have access to the same system I have.

I am a VETERAN and the system I have YOU folks pay for.

Thank you very much.

How is that 'socialized medicine'? Every definition I read indicates that socialize medicine provides for all of society. Not just s select few. The VA system is the opposite of socialized health care.

 

[editec]

I AM enrolled in a socialized HC system and I LIKE it!

I think it a damned shame that so many of my fellow citizens do not have access to the same system I have.

I am a VETERAN and the system I have YOU folks pay for.

Thank you very much.

How is that 'socialized medicine'? Every definition I read indicates that socialize medicine provides for all of society. Not just s select few. The VA system is the opposite of socialized health care.

The government pays for it.

Is that NOT the complaint that most of the detractors of medicade and medicare have about THAT system?

That it's socialism?

Well if medicade and medicare are socialized medicine, surely the VETERANS HC system is likewise SOCIALIALIZED medicine, too.

Like I say...I have socialized medicine, I like it, and I want to THANK my fellow citizens for being generous enough to provide it to me, and to many others who post in this place, too.

 

[HUGGY]

I AM enrolled in a socialized HC system and I LIKE it!

I think it a damned shame that so many of my fellow citizens do not have access to the same system I have.

I am a VETERAN and the system I have YOU folks pay for.

Thank you very much.

How is that 'socialized medicine'? Every definition I read indicates that socialize medicine provides for all of society. Not just s select few. The VA system is the opposite of socialized health care.

You are an idiot. I hope you stick around long enough to make "The List".

 

[dblack]

You are an idiot. I hope you stick around long enough to make "The List".

Where do I sign up?

btw, nice to meet ya!

 

[rdean]

Is it socialized medicine if you earn it as part of your pay?

I don't think so.....

Yes, it's still socialized medicine. They are cutting out expensive insurance companies who don't do anything except create death panels, skim policies because the have a "profit motive", and lobby to deregulate and buy politicians to remove laws that protect consumers. Insurance companies aren't altruistic and charitable organizations. They grub and scrape for every cent they can squeeze out of the American public. That's their only purpose.
Our VA health care is considered the best in the world. Sure, you may have a dirty hospital, but for the most part, it's A Number 1.

And how do they do it? They spend about 94 cents for every dollar on the patient. They have a national data base. Info from every person that is treated goes into this data base. The next doctor that treats a patient can look up the symptoms, the treatment. How effective it was. Insurance companies don't have this. Because they don't care. For them, it's all about making money.

Here is an example of just part of one data base.
http://www.rehab.research.va.gov/jour/02/39/1/pdf/walter.pdf

The data base, started under Bill Clinton, is available to US Armed forces world wide.
Medical Communications for Combat Casualty Care (MC4) - About

Imagine how much money insurance companies could save with access to this data base. They don't use it because they don't care. It's not about "saving" money. It's about "squeezing it out of the American people".