Socialism: Your Questions Answered

[PoliticalChic]

I love these threads... It just shows us how wrong and deranged the OP and supporters are like...

He is actually trying to pretend he is some sort of expert...

Then he paints this picture of the Red Buggyman...

The indoctrination has really been a success with you, huh?

And, I have no doubt, it is indelible.

 

[Moonglow]

And Hitler was a dictator for life, not a socialist....

Hitler, as much as Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin, was a scion of Karl Marx.

1. A year after Lenin's death, 1924, the NYTimes published a small article about a newly established party in Germany, the National Socialist Labor Party, which "...persists in believing that Lenin and Hitler can be compared or contrasted...Dr. Goebell's....assertion that Lenin was the greatest man second only to Hitler...and that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith was very slight...."
NYTimes, November 27, 1925.



2. Shortly thereafter the Nazis found it more useful to stress differences, and the earlier campaign posters showing similarities disappeared, posters with both the hammer and sickle and the swastika.

a. "Hitler often stated that he learned much from reading Marx, and the whole of National Socialism is doctrinally based on Marxism."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge.

b. "Socialists in Germany were national socialists, communists were international socialists."
Vladimir Bukovsky.



Your constant stream of inaccuracies and errors does serve a purpose....
...it gives me an idea for a future OP.

This one should compare Hitler and Stalin.

In terms of doctrine and methodology, it is hard to find a difference.

He also prayed to God of the Christians.....and used them in his speeches..I bet you believe he was pious also..

 

[Moonglow]

To begin....it's 'Socialism vs. Humanity'....mutually exclusive, it's one or the other.


In a recent thread much was made of how different socialism is from communism.
It isn't.
There is no real difference between socialism and communism. When the former is strong enough...it moves to become the latter.

And, of course, no difference in the aims of the two above with Liberalism/Progressivism.




1. In an article on socialism in the Encyclopedia Britannica, Prof. G. D. H. Cole, a leading theoretician and historian of the British Labor Party, declares: The distinction between socialism as distinguished by various Labor and Socialist parties of Europe and the New World, and communism, as represented by the Russians and minority parties in other countries is one of tactics-and-strategy rather than one of objective. Communism is indeed only socialism pursued by revolutionary means and making its revolutionary method a canon of faith...."


In The Communist Manifesto, Marx and Engels stated that communist ends can be attained "only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions."


a. Nazi...national socialism....based on nationalism and/or race...
Communism....international socialism.
Singling out one group made Nazism non-exportable. By making its violence random, communism produced near-identical results everywhere.



2. Insight into the way socialist/communist leaders view human beings can be found in this, from Figes:
. In October 1919, Lenin paid a secret visit to the laboratory of the great physiologist I. P. Pavlov, a Russian physiologist known chiefly for the concept of the conditioned reflex. In his classic experiment, he found that a hungry dog can be trained to associate the sound of a bell with food and will salivate at the sound even in the absence of food. Lenin wanted to find out if his work on the conditional reflexes of the brain might help the Bolsheviks control European behaviour.“I want the masses of Russia to follow a Communistic pattern of thinking and reacting,”Lenin explained. Pavlov was astounded. It seemed that Lenin wanted him to do for humans what he had already done for dogs.“Do you mean that you would like to standardise the population of Russia? Make them all behave in the same way?”he asked.“Exactly” replied Lenin.“Man can be corrected. Man can be made what we want him to be.”… Orlando Figes, "A People's Tragedy," p.732-733



When I describe what Lenin meant by "what we want him to be," you will be disgusted with socialism/communism.


Disgusted and repulsed.

Personally, I don't like Obama-ism either.

Obama-ism, the word is so kewl it's hyphenated....

Yea, it's definitely cute to the max. I think it fits nicely.

The only problem is Oblama is doing exactly what the capitalist want him to do...I see no socialist or communistic actions.................

I don't know what's going on behind closed doors. Sometimes, the consequences take years to become obvious as to what was done that we didn't know about.

And their wealth increases...Much like what happened with the communist nation USSR and it's reason for failing...A small group controlling wealth and power....

 

[Sunni Man]

Whose end goal? Are you implying that the Swedish people who embrace democratic socialism secretly want to become a Stalinist dictatorship?

Stalin was just using communism as a veneer for his dictatorship.

I am just saying that socialism eventually becomes communism. And yes, it can easily morph into a dictatorship. .......

 

[PoliticalChic]

To begin....it's 'Socialism vs. Humanity'....mutually exclusive, it's one or the other.


In a recent thread much was made of how different socialism is from communism.
It isn't.
There is no real difference between socialism and communism. When the former is strong enough...it moves to become the latter.

And, of course, no difference in the aims of the two above with Liberalism/Progressivism.




1. In an article on socialism in the Encyclopedia Britannica, Prof. G. D. H. Cole, a leading theoretician and historian of the British Labor Party, declares: The distinction between socialism as distinguished by various Labor and Socialist parties of Europe and the New World, and communism, as represented by the Russians and minority parties in other countries is one of tactics-and-strategy rather than one of objective. Communism is indeed only socialism pursued by revolutionary means and making its revolutionary method a canon of faith...."


In The Communist Manifesto, Marx and Engels stated that communist ends can be attained "only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions."


a. Nazi...national socialism....based on nationalism and/or race...
Communism....international socialism.
Singling out one group made Nazism non-exportable. By making its violence random, communism produced near-identical results everywhere.



2. Insight into the way socialist/communist leaders view human beings can be found in this, from Figes:
. In October 1919, Lenin paid a secret visit to the laboratory of the great physiologist I. P. Pavlov, a Russian physiologist known chiefly for the concept of the conditioned reflex. In his classic experiment, he found that a hungry dog can be trained to associate the sound of a bell with food and will salivate at the sound even in the absence of food. Lenin wanted to find out if his work on the conditional reflexes of the brain might help the Bolsheviks control European behaviour.“I want the masses of Russia to follow a Communistic pattern of thinking and reacting,”Lenin explained. Pavlov was astounded. It seemed that Lenin wanted him to do for humans what he had already done for dogs.“Do you mean that you would like to standardise the population of Russia? Make them all behave in the same way?”he asked.“Exactly” replied Lenin.“Man can be corrected. Man can be made what we want him to be.”… Orlando Figes, "A People's Tragedy," p.732-733



When I describe what Lenin meant by "what we want him to be," you will be disgusted with socialism/communism.


Disgusted and repulsed.

Personally, I don't like Obama-ism either.

Obama-ism, the word is so kewl it's hyphenated....

Yea, it's definitely cute to the max. I think it fits nicely.

The only problem is Oblama is doing exactly what the capitalist want him to do...I see no socialist or communistic actions.................

I don't know what's going on behind closed doors. Sometimes, the consequences take years to become obvious as to what was done that we didn't know about.

He doesn't understand the economic plans of Mussolini that Franklin Roosevelt co-opted as the 'New Deal,' what we call 'crony capitalism,' or 'corporatism.'

The propaganda of the New Deal (“malefactors of great wealth”) to the contrary, FDR simply endeavored to re-create the corporatism of Mussolini.

Roosevelt's economist, Rex Tugwell, was opposed to any private business not controlled by the government. General Hugh Johnson was working with Tugwell on a bill to create the NRA, and gave Francis Perkins the book by Rafaello Viglione, "The Corporate State," in which the neat Italian system of dictatorship for the benefit of the people was glowingly described." Francis Perkins, "The Roosevelt I Knew." The NRA was copied from Mussolini's corporative system.
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p.47

a. Perkins questioned whether Johnson 'really understood the democratic process..." New Dealers had no problem with the fascist nature of their plans.

b. " Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington
until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union."
Ibid.


2. "As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. ... In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.....

.... Mussolini praised the New Deal as “boldly . . . interventionist in the field of economics,” and Roosevelt complimented Mussolini for his “honest purpose of restoring Italy” and acknowledged that he kept “in fairly close touch with that admirable Italian gentleman.” Also, Hugh Johnson, head of the National Recovery Administration, was known to carry a copy of Raffaello Viglione’s pro-Mussolini book,The Corporate State,with him, presented a copy to Labor Secretary Frances Perkins, and, on retirement, paid tribute to the Italian dictator." Fascism The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics Library of Economics and Liberty

3. Mussolini distinguished fascism from liberal capitalism in his 1928 autobiography:
The citizen in the Fascist State is no longer a selfish individual who has the anti-social right of rebelling against any law of the Collectivity. The Fascist State with its corporative conception puts men and their possibilities into productive work and interprets for them the duties they have to fulfill.

 

[PoliticalChic]

3. Whether communists, socialists, Liberals, or Progressives, all have the mistaken view that human nature can be changed by rules, regulations, laws, or punishments. All of them are about creating a 'new human being.'


a. Communist Revolution is based on the idea of transforming human nature. “The New Soviet man or New Soviet person (Russian: новый советский человек), as postulated by the ideologists of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, was an archetype of a person with certain qualities that were said to be emerging as dominant among all citizens of the Soviet Union, irrespective of the country's long-standing cultural, ethnic, and linguistic diversity, creating a single Soviet people, Soviet nation.[1] New Soviet man - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

b. Leon Trotsky wrote in his Literature and Revolution [2] : "The human species, the sluggish Homo sapiens, will once again enter the stage of radical reconstruction and become in his own hands the object of the most complex methods of artificial selection and psychophysical training... Man will make it his goal...to create a higher sociobiological type, a superman, if you will" New Soviet man - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


c. In 1969, Hillary Rodham gave the student commencement address at Wellesley in which she said that “ for too long our leaders have used politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible, possible….We’re not interested in social reconstruction; it’s human reconstruction.”
-http://www.wellesley.edu/PublicAffairs/Commencement/1969/053169hillary.html



"Human reconstruction."
Liberals, Progressives......they have become gods.



"The Soviet Union attempted to create the New Soviet Man with gulags, psychiatric hospitals, and firing squads for seventy years and succeeded only in producing a more corrupt culture.”
Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 198

 

[Edgetho]

And Hitler was a dictator for life, not a socialist....

Hitler was a National Socialist. Of the Fabian variety. Fabian socialism.

What you are ALL missing, including the brilliant and beautiful PC, is that ALL Marxists are socialists but not all socialists are Marxists.

socialism was around before, during and after Marx. There are dozens of varieties of it. Dozens.

Some which don't resemble each other very much at all.

Marx did not invent socialism. Not even close.

You want to study socialism, the best place to start is the French Revolution.

Or, you can stick with your community college definition of what you think it is. Which is about the extent to which we can expect you to go. Even that is a stretch.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And Hitler was a dictator for life, not a socialist....

Hitler, as much as Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin, was a scion of Karl Marx.

1. A year after Lenin's death, 1924, the NYTimes published a small article about a newly established party in Germany, the National Socialist Labor Party, which "...persists in believing that Lenin and Hitler can be compared or contrasted...Dr. Goebell's....assertion that Lenin was the greatest man second only to Hitler...and that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith was very slight...."
NYTimes, November 27, 1925.



2. Shortly thereafter the Nazis found it more useful to stress differences, and the earlier campaign posters showing similarities disappeared, posters with both the hammer and sickle and the swastika.

a. "Hitler often stated that he learned much from reading Marx, and the whole of National Socialism is doctrinally based on Marxism."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge.

b. "Socialists in Germany were national socialists, communists were international socialists."
Vladimir Bukovsky.



Your constant stream of inaccuracies and errors does serve a purpose....
...it gives me an idea for a future OP.

This one should compare Hitler and Stalin.

In terms of doctrine and methodology, it is hard to find a difference.

He also prayed to God of the Christians.....and used them in his speeches..I bet you believe he was pious also..

He was no such thing.

I have to stop saying "How stupid can you be?"....seems you take it as a challenge.


Laminate this for your wallet: Reality is based on actions, not words.

 

[Edgetho]

3. Whether communists, socialists, Liberals, or Progressives, all have the mistaken view that human nature can be changed by rules, regulations, laws, or punishments. All of them are about creating a 'new human being.'


a. Communist Revolution is based on the idea of transforming human nature. “The New Soviet man or New Soviet person (Russian: новый советский человек), as postulated by the ideologists of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, was an archetype of a person with certain qualities that were said to be emerging as dominant among all citizens of the Soviet Union, irrespective of the country's long-standing cultural, ethnic, and linguistic diversity, creating a single Soviet people, Soviet nation.[1] New Soviet man - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

b. Leon Trotsky wrote in his Literature and Revolution [2] : "The human species, the sluggish Homo sapiens, will once again enter the stage of radical reconstruction and become in his own hands the object of the most complex methods of artificial selection and psychophysical training... Man will make it his goal...to create a higher sociobiological type, a superman, if you will" New Soviet man - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


c. In 1969, Hillary Rodham gave the student commencement address at Wellesley in which she said that “ for too long our leaders have used politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible, possible….We’re not interested in social reconstruction; it’s human reconstruction.”
-http://www.wellesley.edu/PublicAffairs/Commencement/1969/053169hillary.html



"Human reconstruction."
Liberals, Progressives......they have become gods.



"The Soviet Union attempted to create the New Soviet Man with gulags, psychiatric hospitals, and firing squads for seventy years and succeeded only in producing a more corrupt culture.”
Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 198

Rather than confuse our dimwitted dimocrap morons, perhaps we should use the term 'redistributionist' rather than 'socialist'

They have such low mental capacity anyway.

Were all these people you mention redistributionists? Yes. Including Hitler, Mussolini and Franco? Most definitely yes.

Don't use words that dimocrap children can quibble with. They are such small minded, simple, stupid creatures. If they weren't bipedal, there'd be a bounty on them

 

[Camp]

And Hitler was a dictator for life, not a socialist....

Hitler was a National Socialist. Of the Fabian variety. Fabian socialism.

What you are ALL missing, including the brilliant and beautiful PC, is that ALL Marxists are socialists but not all socialists are Marxists.

socialism was around before, during and after Marx. There are dozens of varieties of it. Dozens.

Some which don't resemble each other very much at all.

Marx did not invent socialism. Not even close.

You want to study socialism, the best place to start is the French Revolution.

Or, you can stick with your community college definition of what you think it is. Which is about the extent to which we can expect you to go. Even that is a stretch.

Can't believe I agree with you on something, but I agree with you on most of this post. Seems like a topic that has been debated for generations and you grasp that fact and understand it.

 

[Sunni Man]

Socialism treats people like they are indentured slaves. Where a few rights and privileges are granted by the slave master (socialist government). And the people are monitored for conformity to the socialist agenda..

Whereas, with Communism the people are total slaves to the government; and conformity to the state is legally mandated and tightly controlled.

 

[2aguy]

Denmark is a democratic socialist country. Is it a communist country?

give it time......

 

[2aguy]

Thanks Politicalchic for another good thread......

 

[NYcarbineer]

Denmark is a democratic socialist country. Is it a communist country?

give it time......

In other words, no it isn't. Kind of shoots a big fat hole in the OP's idiocy that socialism is no different than Communism doesn't it...

 

[NYcarbineer]

3. Whether communists, socialists, Liberals, or Progressives, all have the mistaken view that human nature can be changed by rules, regulations, laws, or punishments. All of them are about creating a 'new human being.'

Which conservative system of government has no laws?

lol

 

[Edgetho]

Socialism treats people like they are indentured slaves. Where a few rights and privileges are granted by the slave master (socialist government). And the people are monitored for conformity to the socialist agenda..

Whereas, with Communism the people are total slaves to the government; and conformity to the state is legally mandated and tightly controlled.

Socialism CAN work.

The problem, however, is that the stupidest ***** on earth are the ones advocating it. And they're just really, really, really, really, really, STUPID.

They'd screw up a one car funeral.

But it can work if approached properly. Marx (a faux intellectual's faux intellectual) said that a society MUST go through a period certain of Capitalist development before it can even dream of going socialist.

Our resident socialists (who know less about socialism than they do speed of light travel) don't even know that..... Mostly because they're stupid and partly because dimocrap scum ALWAYS talk out of their asses about things they know nothing about like they're experts.

Done properly, socialism CAN work. So can communism.

The problem is, nobody has ever done it so we don't know how long of a period we have to go through a Capitalist society (Years? Decades? Centuries?) before we switch to socialism then watch as even that just 'withers away'

But mostly, socialism is just another pie in the sky theory that is nowhere near working.

Is it because we're not mature enough as human beings?

Not to worry. socialist scum have a solution for that. In the Soviet Union, they completely removed ANY temptation by outlawing private property and starving to death those that wanted to cling to their Private Property (the Kulaks)

In Germany they just removed from the earth the people they saw as the only ones caring about owning a lot of private property....... Joooos

IOW, mass murder. Every mass murderer of the last 120 years has been a socialist. In fact, the worst mass murderers in all of history have been socialists

Funny how that works out and even more hilarious when you realize that the dimocrap scum in here defend it

So what else is new.

dimocraps are scum. Like that's news

 

[2aguy]

Denmark is a democratic socialist country. Is it a communist country?

give it time......

In other words, no it isn't. Kind of shoots a big fat hole in the OP's idiocy that socialism is no different than Communism doesn't it...

It takes time for the state to destroy the people........and as the states go bankrupt and money becomes less available, then the government starts to clamp down.......you morons think if it doesn't happen over night it doesn't exist........that is because you don't read or understand history, the truth or reality......

 

[Edgetho]

3. Whether communists, socialists, Liberals, or Progressives, all have the mistaken view that human nature can be changed by rules, regulations, laws, or punishments. All of them are about creating a 'new human being.'

Which conservative system of government has no laws?

lol

The "No True Scotsman" fallacy?

What a child you are

 

[NYcarbineer]

Denmark is a democratic socialist country. Is it a communist country?

I guess the OP was lying when she said our questions would be answered.

Sorry I stumped you.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Denmark is a democratic socialist country. Is it a communist country?

give it time......

In other words, no it isn't. Kind of shoots a big fat hole in the OP's idiocy that socialism is no different than Communism doesn't it...

It takes time for the state to destroy the people........and as the states go bankrupt and money becomes less available, then the government starts to clamp down.......you morons think if it doesn't happen over night it doesn't exist........that is because you don't read or understand history, the truth or reality......

What democratic socialist countries have evolved into Communist dictatorships?