Zone1 Social Security Scam

[Couchpotato]

No.
Americans, financially, live like children. For today. No thoughts of the future. Here and now is all they think about.
In the late 90s I worked at a large commercial web printing plant. We also did a lot of mailings for folks.
A company that owns several car lots in the area wanted to mail an advertisement to everyone who has filed bankruptcy.
We got the list and I was absolutely stunned. 1000s of people in a county of only 54,000 households. About 1 in every 25 or so households. I thought that can't be right. So I looked up bankruptcy data and sure enough 1 in 25 households was not out of the ordinary back then. (Much lower now)
This was my first clue about how much of a mirage the glorious 80s and 90s economic boon was.
I also remembered that I read an article in the WSJ about looming debt crises years ago. I remember the statistic that really caught my eye - 67% of consumer retail spending was on credit cards. This was around 2000.
Last year it was 28.2%. So the millenials are using credit cards about half what GenX did in the 90s-2000s.
People didn't save for retirement because they simply never thought about 1 month in the future, let alone decades.

Of course, they do because that's the way we as a society treat people generally speaking. Im not sure why anyone is surprised that they do. But here' the thing. SS is just old people welfare. So, if 50% of the people save for their own retirement, that's still takes half the burden off system as far as SS goes, does it not? Sure, we have to pay the taxes for those 50% but we are already paying for 100% so.... And I wouldn't make the payments commensurate with their past income it would be just above poverty line type income. If we want people to start taking responsibility for their future we have to actually treat that way. We cant tell them that Mommy and Daddy government will take care of you if you don't save for a rainy day or the future.

 

[Woodznutz]

I won't disagree with that, all I am saying that people don't do this because of the government, they do it because they simply don't think about the future.
Case in point, and this guy I know very well, and have known for over 20 years - is a typical American.
I couldn't believe what he did back around 2005 or so... he came into the office talking about how much money he "saved" by consolidating his debt. And was attempting to tell other people about how much money they could save "Great Deal!!"
He took all of his credit card debts which was well over $10,000, several thousand he owed Lowes, a loan he had on his ATV four wheeler, and even took out some cash. And consolidated it with his home loan.
Now he had lived in that home for over 10 years.
So he had about 18-19 years left on the loan. That was now reset to 30 years again.
It took some time for me to convince him he made a huge mistake. He didn't save any money at all.
All of his equity was gone, and his debt INCREASED (obviously). He lost money.
But to him it was all about how much he paid a month. The here and now.
This is how typical Americans think.

The wife of a close friend once admitted to me that with all the money they earned together (he in law enforcement, she a nurse) they never saved more than a few hundred dollars. They spent it as fast as they earned it (however they did have a large family). He wasted thousands on business ventures including, dealing mutual funds, producing honey, a floral delivery service, and finally a custard shop franchise, all of which failed. He is now penniless and lives with his girlfriend (his wife passed away).

The wife of another friend, who was very responsible financially, revealed that he was so reckless with money that it kept them in virtual poverty, and at one time forced them to live in a small rundown trailer on a friend's property. He eventually drank himself to death.

Another very close friend couldn't hold a job (for no good reason) and never had so much as spare change.

These stories are likely pretty common.

Edit. Most of my friends are quite successful however.

 

[Woodznutz]

I do the same. I use a CC for all online purchases for the security benefits, but of course pay the balance before the end of the term.
Having said that, you would think then that credit card spending would be greater now than then.

Maybe many have maxed out their credit, or have been dropped by their CC companies.

 

[Woodznutz]

I do the same. I use a CC for all online purchases for the security benefits, but of course pay the balance before the end of the term.
Having said that, you would think then that credit card spending would be greater now than then.

I like the rewards as well. My reward balance is over $500. I'll use it this Christmas for gifts. The only time I don't use my CC is if I get a discount for paying in cash/check.

 

[dblack]

I like the rewards as well. My reward balance is over $500. I'll use it this Christmas for gifts. The only time I don't use my CC is if I get a discount for paying in cash/check.

I stopped playing the credit game 25 years ago. I have a debit card. And a reasonable savings account.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I stopped playing the credit game 25 years ago. I have a debit card. And a reasonable savings account.

You should never use your debit card for online purchases. That is extremely risky.
People's online information get hacked every-single-day. Eventually - and likely - you will also.
And that hacker has access to your real money.
On a credit card, you are guaranteed not to be held responsible for fraudulent charges.
Debit cards are also protected, but many banks require, by law, no more than 48 hour protection. In other words, if you didn't notice a charge you didn't make two days after it occurred - you are screwed.

 

[dblack]

You should never use your debit card for online purchases. That is extremely risky.
People's online information get hacked every-single-day. Eventually - and likely - you will also.
And that hacker has access to your real money.
On a credit card, you are guaranteed not to be held responsible for fraudulent charges.
Debit cards are also protected, but many banks require, by law, no more than 48 hour protection. In other words, if you didn't notice a charge you didn't make two days after it occurred - you are screwed.

I'm aware of the risk. But I won't play the credit game.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I'm aware of the risk. But I won't play the credit game.

The game benefits you if you play it right.
I have Capital One Quicksilver Rewards card. I believe the minimum requirement is at least 750 or better credit score, so if your finances are good you should be able to qualify.
Quicksilver Rewards is 1.5% back on all purchases, no limits and no exceptions. Every purchase.
Also they have reward savings for 10,000s of businesses you get automatially.
For instance we like doing puzzles. I buy all of our puzzles from White Mountain online - Capital One gives me a free puzzle if I buy 3. Everytime. That is $14.99 total free money. I would be buying the puzzle whether I got it free or not.
That is just the beginning. I earn at least $50 a month in rewards like this alone, on top of 1.5% back
Right now I have $687 in rewards. Absolute free money.
As long as I pay the balance off within terms - the important part.
I earn at least $1500 - $2000 a year - 100% free.

Edit - I use this card for some business use also, thus how I get that much in free money. best thing about that - I literally make money paying for business use that I don't even owe.

 

[dblack]

The game benefits you if you play it right.

I know. I just got tired of looking over my shoulder. I don't want to do business with a company, an industry, that's always contriving ways to fuck me. I'll pass.

 

[flacaltenn]

By your wife drawing SS you upped your income and upping income certainly gives you less subsidy.

If you should have received more subsidy and you didn't, you should receive that back in your tax return.

But only did that when we were ready to GIVE up subsidies. I delayed drawing retirement for a number of reasons. Not getting into them here. But even WHEN she started drawing early -- APPARENTLY (thru BAD INFORMATION from the "Obama Marketplace wizards in 2020) we still had a MINOR subsidy that went bye bye because we elected to just NOT submit a financial statement for that year and got marked "no subsidy".

I miss the days when I had people with 25 years of insurance background -- answering questions about my health insurance for biz and home. Obama FIRED all of them and put an ad on Craigs list for "ACA Market Consultants". And that's who you get today. NO CHOICE.

 

[Woodznutz]

Edit - I use this card for some business use also, thus how I get that much in free money. best thing about that - I literally make money paying for business use that I don't even owe.

I do the same thing. I make purchases (out-of-pocket-expenses) for my company on my CC, as a convenience for everyone, and I keep the rewards. I also keep the 11 percent rebates for Menard's purchases for the company (pays for my gas, and then some).

 

[Woodznutz]

The big argument against SS centers on the potential earnings from investments over time, which of course would yield much more than SS. However, this assumes that people will actually invest a similar amount regularly. In reviewing my financial life I find that I couldn't have invested anything until the mid 1990's after I purchased a rental property. The meager amount I was able to save, over a ten-year period, went for the down payment. From that point however, I did begin to save, but I avoided the stock market in favor of FDIC protected CD's.

I began collecting SS in 1993 and used the benefits to help retire the mortgage on my rental property. According to my SS records I have contributed about $72,000 to SS since 1956 when I first received wages subject to SS taxation. As of today I have received about $355,000 in monthly benefits, over a period of 20 years, most of which is in savings earning interest. So, in my case SS has given me a tidy sum annually to invest as I don't need it for living expenses.

Additionally, my SS premium has nearly doubled since I began collecting, due to COLA's and increased earnings adjustments, as I'm still working.

 

[Couchpotato]

The big argument against SS centers on the potential earnings from investments over time, which of course would yield much more than SS. However, this assumes that people will actually invest a similar amount regularly. In reviewing my financial life I find that I couldn't have invested anything until the mid 1990's after I purchased a rental property. The meager amount I was able to save, over a ten-year period, went for the down payment. From that point however, I did begin to save, but I avoided the stock market in favor of FDIC protected CD's.

Sure you could have if the Government hadnt taken 12.2% of your earnings every month....

I began collecting SS in 1993 and used the benefits to help retire the mortgage on my rental property. According to my SS records I have contributed about $72,000 to SS since 1956 when I first received wages subject to SS taxation. As of today I have received about $355,000 in monthly benefits, over a period of 20 years, most of which is in savings earning interest. So, in my case SS has given me a tidy sum annually to invest as I don't need it for living expenses.

Additionally, my SS premium has nearly doubled since I began collecting, due to COLA's and increased earnings adjustments, as I'm still working.

I dont know how much you made over your lifetime but let's assume you started out at 20k a year at age 18 and never got a raise worked until you were 68 and invested just what SS took from you and got a modest 6% return on your investment.

At 68 you would have had 850k in the bank.

The annual return on that money would be 50k. So, you would have had a 50k a year income without ever touching the principle. Tell me again how SS is better....

That same person gets less than 12k a year from SS...

 

[dblack]

The big argument against SS centers on the potential earnings from investments over time ...

That's just not the "big argument" for me. For me, it's about the power that programs like these grant to Congress. It makes "scare the seniors" the go-to campaign strategy.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That is wholly untrue. My 20 year old surviving kid doesn’t get any of my social security

Your 20 year-old kid should be self-sufficient.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Sure you could have if the Government hadnt taken 12.2% of your earnings every month....




I dont know how much you made over your lifetime but let's assume you started out at 20k a year at age 18 and never got a raise worked until you were 68 and invested just what SS took from you and got a modest 6% return on your investment.

At 68 you would have had 850k in the bank.

The annual return on that money would be 50k. So, you would have had a 50k a year income without ever touching the principle. Tell me again how SS is better....

That same person gets less than 12k a year from SS...

The part you are not taking into account... just sayin...

Let's say you end SS forced savings January 2023.
Cool we all start keeping our own money. Yay!
Fast forward 20 years. Well...what do you know?.. big surprise!.. The VAST majority of Americans did not save that money. They spent it all on new cars, bigger houses etc. etc.
And now they are all screwed. Millions of people.
Millions of people makes a nice fat voting block! OOooOOoo!! And what party do you think will appease that big fat voting block?? You really think the government won't bail them out?? And whose money do you think is going to bail them out?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

What percentage of people use algebra outside of an academic setting? Do you think that percentage is higher or lower than the percentage of people who need to know about budgets and basic accounting?

85% of HS students take Algebra, they spend an entire year learning something that will be of little to no use to the vast majority of them in their lives other than to take more math courses which will be of little to no value as well.

You don't understand what algebra is. That is your your problem.

These calculations of how much money you could have had if not paying into social security? Yep! That's algebra. I taught it for 21 years!

 

[dblack]

The part you are not taking into account... just sayin...

Let's say you end SS forced savings January 2023.
Cool we all start keeping our own money. Yay!
Fast forward 20 years. Well...what do you know?.. big surprise!.. The VAST majority of Americans did not save that money. They spent it all on new cars, bigger houses etc. etc.
And now they are all screwed. Millions of people.
Millions of people makes a nice fat voting block! OOooOOoo!! And what party do you think will appease that big fat voting block?? You really think the government won't bail them out?? And whose money do you think is going to bail them out?

This is basically the condensed argument for socialism.

 

[dblack]

Bottom line: you can't maintain a functioning democracy when half the people are dependent on the state.

 

[Couchpotato]

You don't understand what algebra is. That is your your problem.

These calculations of how much money you could have had if not paying into social security? Yep! That's algebra. I taught it for 21 years!

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