Zone1 Ukraine says it never refused to negotiate with Russia, wants talks with Putin successor - Reuters

[peacefan]

Ukraine says it never refused to negotiate with Russia, wants talks with Putin successor - Reuters
Ukraine says it never refused to negotiate with Russia, wants talks with Putin successor ReutersView Full Coverage on Google News

Remote : Mon, 07 Nov 2022 15:57:00 GMT
Local : 2022-11-07(Monday) 16 : 57 : 00
Found via World Headlines on nicer.app

with Putin's *successor*? that's not exactly giving the Russians a graceful way out now is it?
and eh, whose idea was it to reject the claims of the peoples of the Donbass region to be a part of Russia? was that the Americans, the Britts, or the Ukranian leaders in Kyiv?
the Truman doctrine never included letting ourselves be held hostage to the greed or whims of aspiring new members to our alliances, did it?

Truman Doctrine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[peacefan]

Donald H you might like this thread.

 

[Oddball]

Zelensky and his merry band of WEF money launderers are totally credible!

/sarc

 

[skye]

Zelensky and his merry band of WEF money launderers are totally credible!

/sarc

of course they are LOL

not

 

[peacefan]

Zelensky and his merry band of WEF money launderers are totally credible!

/sarc

to 5 year old nationalist kids maybe!

 

[rightwinger]

Ukraine says it never refused to negotiate with Russia, wants talks with Putin successor - Reuters
Ukraine says it never refused to negotiate with Russia, wants talks with Putin successor ReutersView Full Coverage on Google News

Remote : Mon, 07 Nov 2022 15:57:00 GMT
Local : 2022-11-07(Monday) 16 : 57 : 00
Found via World Headlines on nicer.app

with Putin's *successor*? that's not exactly giving the Russians a graceful way out now is it?
and eh, whose idea was it to reject the claims of the peoples of the Donbass region to be a part of Russia? was that the Americans, the Britts, or the Ukranian leaders in Kyiv?
the Truman doctrine never included letting ourselves be held hostage to the greed or whims of aspiring new members to our alliances, did it?

Why would Ukraine trust Putin to keep his agreements?
He never has in the past

Russia has no graceful way out and Ukraine is making it clear there will have to be a regime change

 

[peacefan]

or is this indeed a bi-partisan setup afterall? even a conjunction of interests from across some of the more powerful NATO and EU countries, to abuse the grain produced each year by Ukraine as a silent weapon against all sorts of "threats" in Africa(!) and the Middle East? you deprive people of food, you're going to drive their warriors into a killing frenzy, with full justifiableness afterwards, you know.

 

[peacefan]

Why would Ukraine trust Putin to keep his agreements?
He never has in the past

Russia has no graceful way out and Ukraine is making it clear there will have to be a regime change

nonsense. Russia does not need regime change. just a full retreat. and the best way to achieve that is by allowing them to save face.

 

[peacefan]

or is this indeed a bi-partisan setup afterall? even a conjunction of interest from across some of the more powerful NATO and EU countries, to abuse the grain produced each year by Ukraine as a silent weapon against all sorts of "threats" in Africa(!) and the Middle East? you deprive people of food, you're going to drive their warriors into a killing frenzy, with full justifiableness afterwards, you know.

and if *that* is used to organise some kinda permanent 'engine' to keep western military industrial "output" humming along (meaning ammunition gets used in combat all the time), then i see some very serious court-cases for the guilty in the future.
here on Earth, *and* in the afterlife. their legacies *and* their futures will become reasons for them to cry.

 

[Oddball]

to 5 year old nationalist kids maybe!

I can't trust the word of those oligarchs.....Who, beside a total sucker, would?

 

[peacefan]

all this talk of 'peace through strength' has been twisted since at least WW1's aftermath.

strength is not achieved by fostering a military machine that spends ammunition in real wars to keep factories and employees in service,

strength is achieved by having the ability to quickly scale up production of quality military assets and troops who know how to use those assets.
a small core group that specializes in R&D.

not a large core group that specializes in creating havoc around the world for what are essentially bs reasons.

 

[Sunni Man]

Zelensky is lying psychopath that invents his own bizarre reality.
The Russian people are overwhelmingly supporting Putin and his liberation of the ethnic Russian people in eastern Ukraine.

 

[AZrailwhale]

nonsense. Russia does not need regime change. just a full retreat. and the best way to achieve that is by allowing them to save face.

You don’t let a puppy that has peed on the rug “save face”, you spank him with a newspaper. Russia needs to be punished for its unprovoked aggressions against multiple countries.

 

[peacefan]

and now you might think i'm a fool..
(1) armies have to be on stand by, not take months to get trained up for a conflict.
(2) strength has to get tested from time to time
(3) conflicts are going to evolve regardless whether you strike them down.

well,
(1) no, diplomacy and solid domestic defense architecture can keep the enemy at bay until the army is ready for that quite-necessary penalty mission.
(2) no, through espionage you can gain all the knowhow you need on how enemy tech and troops work.
(3) you'll only foster conflicts if you strike them down. a merciful approach not only gives you a much-needed idealogical edge (it prevents the enemy from using your actions as justification for further hostilities initiated by them and their friends), it'll do wonders for the morale and stamina of your own troops too.

 

[peacefan]

Zelensky is lying psychopath that invents his own bizarre reality.
The Russian people are overwhelmingly supporting Putin and his liberation of the ethnic Russian people in eastern Ukraine.

frankly, in my opinion, the Ukranian *and* Russian leaderships have gone nuts over their animosity towards eachother.
and they've chosen to lead their peoples down these paths of hatred and misery along with them.
that makes them guilty.

they should have opted to stick to the Minsk agreements.

Minsk agreements - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

well, there's always a new chance for new agreements.
if you don't go demanding regime change or other deal-blockers.

 

[peacefan]

You don’t let a puppy that has peed on the rug “save face”, you spank him with a newspaper. Russia needs to be punished for its unprovoked aggressions against multiple countries.

you not only call a superpower's leadership a 'puppy', you tell us to spank it with a newspaper?! you're nuts.
Russia needs to be punished? THE DAMAGE HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. all you can do now is prevent MORE damage from being done.

 

[Sunni Man]

Everyone focuses on the Russian army's ongoing liberation of Ukraine.
But the real genius of Putin is how he's basically exposed NATO as disjointed and weak.
And has single handedly all but dismantled the EU as an economic entity.

 

[peacefan]

Everyone focuses on the Russian army's ongoing liberation of Ukraine.
But the real genius of Putin is how he's basically exposed NATO as disjointed and weak.
And has single handedly all but dismantled the EU as an economic entity.

typical Muslim fundamentalist/nationalist chest-thumping..

 

[Sunni Man]

Thanks to Putin's brilliant plan, Russia is poised to become the undisputed economic powerhouse of Europe.

 

[peacefan]

Thanks to Putin's brilliant plan, Russia is poised to become the undisputed economic powerhouse of Europe.

yeah, about that particular form of brilliance...
in the eyes of the average modern (Middle-)Eastern warrior recruit, you get responses like :

and in the eyes of actual graduated (Middle-)Eastern warriors, you get about this :

but in practical terms, you *actually get* *this* :

the begging by "the oppressed" (who in fact are authoritarians themselves of some sort) for attention, weapons and recruits.