Social Democracy

[dblack]

Thats one of the big lies socialist like to state. Any tax funded program is socialism. Its not just their stupidity they really believe it

Nonsense. The military isn't socialism. Neither is the fire department. These are services that we assign specifically to government, for reasons that have nothing at all to do with state control of labor and resources.

 

[Dekster]

The US will never be a social democracy because neither party are fans of liberty. They both want broad freedoms for themselves, and zero freedoms for their opponents. They have no tolerance for opposition or diversity.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

There is endless roars on this forum about how evil social democracy is... I just wanted to compare what modern day Western European Democracy looks like and what Social Democracy looks like...

First I just want to make it clear, Social Democracy is not Democratic Socialism. Social Democracy is about regulating Companies for the overall good for society, the idea is the Citizen comes first in society not corporations and profit.. So workers rights and pollution concerns are more important than corporate wishes... Europe learnt this the hard way in the 70s where they polluted large areas and have since been reclaiming that back.

Turns out people want the Government working for them. They are starting to understand that voting for someone who says Government doesn't work, leads to government that doesn't work.

They can see Governments in places like Western Europe working.

View attachment 1261072

UK has an 7.7% higher but for that they get free healthcare, working public transport, way better roads, almost free third level education, a proper social safety net, way better air and water quality.....
US has far more natural resources and space for a growing workable.

Some are saying, if we take the rich to the level they are taxed in Europe, the tax burden could be at Germany level without effecting.
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95% of the tax base... no raises in taxes...

For the top 5% of earners, the effective tax rate (including income taxes and social contributions) is approximately 30% to 35% in the US and roughly 45% to 50% in Germany. Germany has a significantly heavier tax burden and steeper progressivity across all high-income brackets. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Lets' do the numbers...
So if the top 5% paid taxes at the level of Germany.
I am only doing this on Federal for the moment and in brackets I am using today's rates as effected by inflation

That 76% of the taxes collected getting a 15% increase in line with Germany. This is everyone earning over $173,000($209,000). So it would be starting at around $160,00 ($180,000 today) tax bracket... So you only pay the extra after that.

So for that you get

• Free or very affordable Healthcare
• Working public transport which is a game changer in economic movement
• Way better roads,
• Free third level education,
• a proper social safety net,
• way better air and water quality
• Lower Crime rate (United States homicide rate is roughly 5 to 6 times higher than Germany's)
• many other things...

You have a right to disagree, no problem.. But it is a reasonable proposal, I don't think villainising people who are asking the question of why not, is any way productive.
US has some very bad metrics by first world standard:

• One of the highest infant mortality rate in first world (US 5.1 v Germany 3.1)
• Highest incarceration rate in first world ( US puts there own citizens in prison at 7-8 times the rate of Germany)
• US Police kill their own citizens far higher (40 times the rate in Germany)

This is not about villainising one side or the other... This is about amateur discussion that compares how the the wealthy in both sides contribute.

The European view is that wealth and accumulation of wealth gets major advantages in the first world, lack of corruption, security, educated work force, large consumer base... This has to be paid for and the people doing the best of it pay.

List of countries by infant and under-five mortality rates - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of countries with annual rates and counts for killings by law enforcement officers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Can I point out calling anyone Marxist or Communist when discussing Social Democracy is just exposing your complete ignorance. So please don't, it makes you sound like a 5 year old..
Social Democracy is different to those...

By the way, I am showing that Germany and Western Europe have stats which some Americans might prefer... The top 10% pay for services (like Germany & EU) that they benefit.

You make the emphatic statement that Social Democracy is not Democratic Socialism but fail to actually make a distinction. I am aware of the fact that some will define Democratic socialism as a system that would completely replace capitalism with a socialist economy where the means of production are socially or collectively owned but that is not what people like Bernie Sanders advocate . Rather, he and others like him advocate for pretty much what you describe as Social Democracy.