Social Democracy

[CowboyTed]

When Trump visited China, you can see the smog. Reporters even made statements on it. We live in a zero-sum society. I knew a person who was a firefighter for 25 years and his worst fire was a trash can. He stole money and benefits. He was also arrogant and had a kid who was friends to my kids and he was arrogant. Taxpayers and consumers pay for this. And that means if he was privileged, someone else is not. There are millions of people who make a living like this fireman did. Skating in life within a corrupted system and adding little to the GDP. You as a Progressive will modify all of this to uplift those you deem not privileged. And you will end up modifying many of your own who are privileged in employment in the end. The elderly must be dealt with in a zero-sum way at some point and that is just one group.

So you want to fire all firemen because you knew a bad fireman...

How do you think we should handle fires then?

 

[frigidweirdo]

There is endless roars on this forum about how evil social democracy is... I just wanted to compare what modern day Western European Democracy looks like and what Social Democracy looks like...

First I just want to make it clear, Social Democracy is not Democratic Socialism. Social Democracy is about regulating Companies for the overall good for society, the idea is the Citizen comes first in society not corporations and profit.. So workers rights and pollution concerns are more important than corporate wishes... Europe learnt this the hard way in the 70s where they polluted large areas and have since been reclaiming that back.

Turns out people want the Government working for them. They are starting to understand that voting for someone who says Government doesn't work, leads to government that doesn't work.

They can see Governments in places like Western Europe working.

View attachment 1261072

UK has an 7.7% higher but for that they get free healthcare, working public transport, way better roads, almost free third level education, a proper social safety net, way better air and water quality.....
US has far more natural resources and space for a growing workable.

Some are saying, if we take the rich to the level they are taxed in Europe, the tax burden could be at Germany level without effecting.
View attachment 1261075


95% of the tax base... no raises in taxes...

For the top 5% of earners, the effective tax rate (including income taxes and social contributions) is approximately 30% to 35% in the US and roughly 45% to 50% in Germany. Germany has a significantly heavier tax burden and steeper progressivity across all high-income brackets. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Lets' do the numbers...
So if the top 5% paid taxes at the level of Germany.
I am only doing this on Federal for the moment and in brackets I am using today's rates as effected by inflation

That 76% of the taxes collected getting a 15% increase in line with Germany. This is everyone earning over $173,000($209,000). So it would be starting at around $160,00 ($180,000 today) tax bracket... So you only pay the extra after that.

So for that you get

• Free or very affordable Healthcare
• Working public transport which is a game changer in economic movement
• Way better roads,
• Free third level education,
• a proper social safety net,
• way better air and water quality
• Lower Crime rate (United States homicide rate is roughly 5 to 6 times higher than Germany's)
• many other things...

You have a right to disagree, no problem.. But it is a reasonable proposal, I don't think villainising people who are asking the question of why not, is any way productive.
US has some very bad metrics by first world standard:

• One of the highest infant mortality rate in first world (US 5.1 v Germany 3.1)
• Highest incarceration rate in first world ( US puts there own citizens in prison at 7-8 times the rate of Germany)
• US Police kill their own citizens far higher (40 times the rate in Germany)

This is not about villainising one side or the other... This is about amateur discussion that compares how the the wealthy in both sides contribute.

The European view is that wealth and accumulation of wealth gets major advantages in the first world, lack of corruption, security, educated work force, large consumer base... This has to be paid for and the people doing the best of it pay.

List of countries by infant and under-five mortality rates - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of countries with annual rates and counts for killings by law enforcement officers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Can I point out calling anyone Marxist or Communist when discussing Social Democracy is just exposing your complete ignorance. So please don't, it makes you sound like a 5 year old..
Social Democracy is different to those...

By the way, I am showing that Germany and Western Europe have stats which some Americans might prefer... The top 10% pay for services (like Germany & EU) that they benefit.

The US could have government that works for them, it's called Proportional Representation.

But people have been conditioned by the rich who control politics to not think for themselves. And the rich don't want to tell people how to have a system that reduces the need for the rich to control everything.

It's a perfect "Turkeys voting for Christmas" situation.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

There is endless roars on this forum about how evil social democracy is... I just wanted to compare what modern day Western European Democracy looks like and what Social Democracy looks like...

First I just want to make it clear, Social Democracy is not Democratic Socialism. Social Democracy is about regulating Companies for the overall good for society, the idea is the Citizen comes first in society not corporations and profit.. So workers rights and pollution concerns are more important than corporate wishes... Europe learnt this the hard way in the 70s where they polluted large areas and have since been reclaiming that back.

Turns out people want the Government working for them. They are starting to understand that voting for someone who says Government doesn't work, leads to government that doesn't work.

They can see Governments in places like Western Europe working.

View attachment 1261072

UK has an 7.7% higher but for that they get free healthcare, working public transport, way better roads, almost free third level education, a proper social safety net, way better air and water quality.....
US has far more natural resources and space for a growing workable.

Some are saying, if we take the rich to the level they are taxed in Europe, the tax burden could be at Germany level without effecting.
View attachment 1261075


95% of the tax base... no raises in taxes...

For the top 5% of earners, the effective tax rate (including income taxes and social contributions) is approximately 30% to 35% in the US and roughly 45% to 50% in Germany. Germany has a significantly heavier tax burden and steeper progressivity across all high-income brackets. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Lets' do the numbers...
So if the top 5% paid taxes at the level of Germany.
I am only doing this on Federal for the moment and in brackets I am using today's rates as effected by inflation

That 76% of the taxes collected getting a 15% increase in line with Germany. This is everyone earning over $173,000($209,000). So it would be starting at around $160,00 ($180,000 today) tax bracket... So you only pay the extra after that.

So for that you get

• Free or very affordable Healthcare
• Working public transport which is a game changer in economic movement
• Way better roads,
• Free third level education,
• a proper social safety net,
• way better air and water quality
• Lower Crime rate (United States homicide rate is roughly 5 to 6 times higher than Germany's)
• many other things...

You have a right to disagree, no problem.. But it is a reasonable proposal, I don't think villainising people who are asking the question of why not, is any way productive.
US has some very bad metrics by first world standard:

• One of the highest infant mortality rate in first world (US 5.1 v Germany 3.1)
• Highest incarceration rate in first world ( US puts there own citizens in prison at 7-8 times the rate of Germany)
• US Police kill their own citizens far higher (40 times the rate in Germany)

This is not about villainising one side or the other... This is about amateur discussion that compares how the the wealthy in both sides contribute.

The European view is that wealth and accumulation of wealth gets major advantages in the first world, lack of corruption, security, educated work force, large consumer base... This has to be paid for and the people doing the best of it pay.

List of countries by infant and under-five mortality rates - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of countries with annual rates and counts for killings by law enforcement officers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Can I point out calling anyone Marxist or Communist when discussing Social Democracy is just exposing your complete ignorance. So please don't, it makes you sound like a 5 year old..
Social Democracy is different to those...

By the way, I am showing that Germany and Western Europe have stats which some Americans might prefer... The top 10% pay for services (like Germany & EU) that they benefit.

A new name for socialism. **** off

 

[Missouri_Mike]

EU don't seem to have a problem...

EU got better election systems and have more constrained constitutions... US complain about the Government overreach while having a Constitution which is tiny, dead (i.e. not update regularly) and is interpreted to the eyeballs by a bunch of unelected political appointments.
The US voting system is antique at this stage... One man one voting is ridiculous in this day and age... It creates two parties who can be hijacked by nature and fear of the other side..

So this 'Big Government' can be used as a fear tactic to scare people... Independent thinker you are fearmongering that Government will take over, instead of saying, we need Government working for the citizens...

So if you see the Government actually helping you want to reject it, in fear that they could control you. You have been conditioned to live your life in fear of people you could help you...

Contrast that to Europe, Governments work for the people and they are very clear about that... The police are government workers for you, politicians are rewarded for working for the people and because the voting system, don't work for the people and you're out... There is no such thing as a safe seat for your party in most cases...
Politicians in Europe have to face the opposition once a week to answer questions... PM's can be voted out in the morning by their own party and they will do it.

You think Europeans living under two governments is a win? WTF is wrong with you?

 

[Missouri_Mike]

You used the term 'Chicoms'...

You don't even get it? You do really expose your lack of knowledge on how to behave...

This isn't a good thing... It is pretty sad really...

Chinese communist is now racial. ******* idiot.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Europe is dying Ted.

Not alone. It is being murdered by islam.