Smoking Bans

[dblack]

Well, the current assumption is that, unless a sign prohibiting smoking is displayed, then smoking is allowed. As an alternative to smoking bans, the idea has been proffered that businesses could simply post signs designating that smoking is allowed, and that anyone entering the premises is voluntarily accepting that risk. Yet this alternative is rejected. Why?

 

[Pogo]

Sure, but smokers are now a minority. If the majority vote to ban smoking in the workplace and restaurants, there is no longer a question.

Smokers are free to smoke where others are not breathing.

And no one has the right to force me to smoke at my work or public places.

Majority of people did not voted nor decided. Politicians did.

The majority don't smoke. Business owners don't want to lose customers so they lobbied for laws.

Duh.

How about smoking dens, like the old time opium dens. Get as sick as you want, stink to high heaven and leave sane people alone.

Frankly, as long as you're not exhaling where I am inhaling, I don't care.

Like cigar bars ?

The bans apply to them also (at least here )

As long as I don't have to smell the stink, why would I care if you smoke cigars?

As John Kerry said, people in the US are allowed to be stupid.

They just not allowed to force others to be stupid - at least not when it comes to smoking.

Have you ever been forced to enter a restaurant that alllowed smoking?

That ain't how it works.
What happens is, you go in, sit down and order a nice meal. Then just as it arrives some asshole parks next to you and starts puffing toxins into the air -- the air you need to breathe. The air you don't have a choice not to breathe. In other words that asshole just decided that not just he, but everybody in the room will now smoke. Because that's how gases work. In other words, before anyone lights up, smoking or not smoking is everybody's individual choice; after somebody lights up, everybody's choice is reduced to ashes. Because that one asshole just decided for everybody.

And because that is how gases work, "next to you" isn't to be taken literally; it means anywhere in the room. Because that's how gases work. So you're not forced to enter; you're forced to breathe smoke. By a guy who has decided for you what you will breathe.

Suppose, same scenario, instead of smoking, the guy parks next to you and takes a shit on the table. I mean literally, drops his pants and dumps a load right there. You OK with that? It is after all not as toxic as cigarette smoke.

 

[Pogo]

Well, the current assumption is that, unless a sign prohibiting smoking is displayed, then smoking is allowed. As an alternative to smoking bans, the idea has been proffered that businesses could simply post signs designating that smoking is allowed, and that anyone entering the premises is voluntarily accepting that risk. Yet this alternative is rejected. Why?

Nobody would do that. It would kill business.

 

[dblack]

Well, the current assumption is that, unless a sign prohibiting smoking is displayed, then smoking is allowed. As an alternative to smoking bans, the idea has been proffered that businesses could simply post signs designating that smoking is allowed, and that anyone entering the premises is voluntarily accepting that risk. Yet this alternative is rejected. Why?

Nobody would do that. It would kill business.

Nonsense. Many business have already banned smoking voluntarily. Or offered non-smoking areas. Business will cater to the desires of their customers.

 

[Pogo]

Well, the current assumption is that, unless a sign prohibiting smoking is displayed, then smoking is allowed. As an alternative to smoking bans, the idea has been proffered that businesses could simply post signs designating that smoking is allowed, and that anyone entering the premises is voluntarily accepting that risk. Yet this alternative is rejected. Why?

Nobody would do that. It would kill business.

Nonsense. Many business have already banned smoking voluntarily. Or offered non-smoking areas. Business will cater to the desires of their customers.

You're affirming what I just said in effect.

I said nobody would voluntarily advertise that they DO allow smoking. It would be like a big sign saying "most of you really don't want to be in here". Not generally the way advertising works.

 

[dblack]

Majority of people did not voted nor decided. Politicians did.

The majority don't smoke. Business owners don't want to lose customers so they lobbied for laws.

Duh.

How about smoking dens, like the old time opium dens. Get as sick as you want, stink to high heaven and leave sane people alone.

Frankly, as long as you're not exhaling where I am inhaling, I don't care.

Like cigar bars ?

The bans apply to them also (at least here )

As long as I don't have to smell the stink, why would I care if you smoke cigars?

As John Kerry said, people in the US are allowed to be stupid.

They just not allowed to force others to be stupid - at least not when it comes to smoking.

Have you ever been forced to enter a restaurant that alllowed smoking?

That ain't how it works.
What happens is, you go in, sit down and order a nice meal. Then just as it arrives some asshole parks next to you and starts puffing toxins into the air -- the air you need to breathe. The air you don't have a choice not to breathe. In other words that asshole just decided that not just he, but everybody in the room will now smoke. Because that's how gases work.

And because that is how gases work, "next to you" isn't to be taken literally; it means anywhere in the room. Because that's how gases work. So you're not forced to enter; you're forced to breathe smoke. By a guy who has decided for you what you will breathe.

Suppose, same scenario, instead of smoking, the guy parks next to you and takes a shit on the table. I mean literally, drops his pants and dumps a load right there. You OK with that? It is after all not as toxic as cigarette smoke.

No. I'd be disgusted with that. And, if the restaurant owner refused to eject the asshole responsible (literally?), I'd never patronize that restaurant again.

 

[dblack]

Well, the current assumption is that, unless a sign prohibiting smoking is displayed, then smoking is allowed. As an alternative to smoking bans, the idea has been proffered that businesses could simply post signs designating that smoking is allowed, and that anyone entering the premises is voluntarily accepting that risk. Yet this alternative is rejected. Why?

Nobody would do that. It would kill business.

Nonsense. Many business have already banned smoking voluntarily. Or offered non-smoking areas. Business will cater to the desires of their customers.

You're affirming what I just said in effect.

I said nobody would voluntarily advertise that they DO allow smoking. It would be like a big sign saying "most of you really don't want to be in here". Not generally the way advertising works.

What?? I know of specific examples of businesses advertising a smoke-free environment. And I know of several businesses that designate smoking areas and offer smoke-free sections (this is, of course, in municipalities that haven't yet employed smoking bans).

 

[rightwinger]

I'll tell you what I did before.

I sucked it up and breathed in the filth they were spitting out. My eyes were irritated, my hair and clothes stank and I risked whatever damage might get done. I had no other choices....breathe in the filth or stay home. For fear of offending smokers, most businesses reluctantly tolerated smoking in their establishment. They did not want to be "the one" who stood up to smokers

It took government to level the playing field. Nobody could allow smoking. Nobody received extra benefit and nobody received extra punishment. Should have been done decades ago

Ahh ... so it was YOU who "bowed down to the almighty smokers"! If you'd had a pair and stood your ground, maybe half of us wouldn't now be whining to government like helpless children, begging them to make every goddamned decision for us.

Yes, I bowed down to the almighty smokers. My first job out of college, my boss was a chain smoker. Four packs a day or more. I could have raised an issue about my boss being able to smoke in the workplace but when it came to evaluations, he would have had to decide whether my presence in the office made his life easier
Then a strange thing happened. In the early 80s, NOBODY was allowed to smoke, regardless of how much power you had. No worker was expected to risk their job or risk enraging fellow workers just to have a clean working environment

For 150 years, smokers got to decide what kind of air others were allowed to breathe. Now they have to breathe our air

Winger owns the air?

Who knew

Yes I do...especially the air that reaches my lungs

Then why go places with bad air?

You are a puzzle

Why should I be excluded from going somewhere because some asshole wants to foul the air?

 

[Pop23]

Majority of people did not voted nor decided. Politicians did.

The majority don't smoke. Business owners don't want to lose customers so they lobbied for laws.

Duh.

How about smoking dens, like the old time opium dens. Get as sick as you want, stink to high heaven and leave sane people alone.

Frankly, as long as you're not exhaling where I am inhaling, I don't care.

Like cigar bars ?

The bans apply to them also (at least here )

As long as I don't have to smell the stink, why would I care if you smoke cigars?

As John Kerry said, people in the US are allowed to be stupid.

They just not allowed to force others to be stupid - at least not when it comes to smoking.

Have you ever been forced to enter a restaurant that alllowed smoking?

That ain't how it works.
What happens is, you go in, sit down and order a nice meal. Then just as it arrives some asshole parks next to you and starts puffing toxins into the air -- the air you need to breathe. The air you don't have a choice not to breathe. In other words that asshole just decided that not just he, but everybody in the room will now smoke. Because that's how gases work. In other words, before anyone lights up, smoking or not smoking is everybody's individual choice; after somebody lights up, everybody's choice is reduced to ashes. Because that one asshole just decided for everybody.

And because that is how gases work, "next to you" isn't to be taken literally; it means anywhere in the room. Because that's how gases work. So you're not forced to enter; you're forced to breathe smoke. By a guy who has decided for you what you will breathe.

Suppose, same scenario, instead of smoking, the guy parks next to you and takes a shit on the table. I mean literally, drops his pants and dumps a load right there. You OK with that? It is after all not as toxic as cigarette smoke.

Or the restaurant is full of radon and it slowly kills you.

Of course, it's killing you in a pleasing atmosphere.

People scared more of the known then the unknown are wacky

 

[Pop23]

Ahh ... so it was YOU who "bowed down to the almighty smokers"! If you'd had a pair and stood your ground, maybe half of us wouldn't now be whining to government like helpless children, begging them to make every goddamned decision for us.

Yes, I bowed down to the almighty smokers. My first job out of college, my boss was a chain smoker. Four packs a day or more. I could have raised an issue about my boss being able to smoke in the workplace but when it came to evaluations, he would have had to decide whether my presence in the office made his life easier
Then a strange thing happened. In the early 80s, NOBODY was allowed to smoke, regardless of how much power you had. No worker was expected to risk their job or risk enraging fellow workers just to have a clean working environment

For 150 years, smokers got to decide what kind of air others were allowed to breathe. Now they have to breathe our air

Winger owns the air?

Who knew

Yes I do...especially the air that reaches my lungs

Then why go places with bad air?

You are a puzzle

Why should I be excluded from going somewhere because some asshole wants to foul the air?

You may exclude yourself from anywhere you wish.

Do you know how silly you actually sound?

 

[Pop23]

Well, the current assumption is that, unless a sign prohibiting smoking is displayed, then smoking is allowed. As an alternative to smoking bans, the idea has been proffered that businesses could simply post signs designating that smoking is allowed, and that anyone entering the premises is voluntarily accepting that risk. Yet this alternative is rejected. Why?

Nobody would do that. It would kill business.

Nonsense. Many business have already banned smoking voluntarily. Or offered non-smoking areas. Business will cater to the desires of their customers.

You're affirming what I just said in effect.

I said nobody would voluntarily advertise that they DO allow smoking. It would be like a big sign saying "most of you really don't want to be in here". Not generally the way advertising works.

But they did, for decades.

 

[Pop23]

Well, the current assumption is that, unless a sign prohibiting smoking is displayed, then smoking is allowed. As an alternative to smoking bans, the idea has been proffered that businesses could simply post signs designating that smoking is allowed, and that anyone entering the premises is voluntarily accepting that risk. Yet this alternative is rejected. Why?

Nobody would do that. It would kill business.

Then why the mandatory bans?

Good lord, do you actually believe your own arguments?

 

[Pogo]

The majority don't smoke. Business owners don't want to lose customers so they lobbied for laws.

Duh.

How about smoking dens, like the old time opium dens. Get as sick as you want, stink to high heaven and leave sane people alone.

Frankly, as long as you're not exhaling where I am inhaling, I don't care.

Like cigar bars ?

The bans apply to them also (at least here )

As long as I don't have to smell the stink, why would I care if you smoke cigars?

As John Kerry said, people in the US are allowed to be stupid.

They just not allowed to force others to be stupid - at least not when it comes to smoking.

Have you ever been forced to enter a restaurant that alllowed smoking?

That ain't how it works.
What happens is, you go in, sit down and order a nice meal. Then just as it arrives some asshole parks next to you and starts puffing toxins into the air -- the air you need to breathe. The air you don't have a choice not to breathe. In other words that asshole just decided that not just he, but everybody in the room will now smoke. Because that's how gases work. In other words, before anyone lights up, smoking or not smoking is everybody's individual choice; after somebody lights up, everybody's choice is reduced to ashes. Because that one asshole just decided for everybody.

And because that is how gases work, "next to you" isn't to be taken literally; it means anywhere in the room. Because that's how gases work. So you're not forced to enter; you're forced to breathe smoke. By a guy who has decided for you what you will breathe.

Suppose, same scenario, instead of smoking, the guy parks next to you and takes a shit on the table. I mean literally, drops his pants and dumps a load right there. You OK with that? It is after all not as toxic as cigarette smoke.

Or the restaurant is full of radon and it slowly kills you.

Of course, it's killing you in a pleasing atmosphere.

People scared more of the known then the unknown are wacky

Again with the radon deflections.
What the fuck is wrong with you dood? Is "radon" anywhere in the topic? No.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, I bowed down to the almighty smokers. My first job out of college, my boss was a chain smoker. Four packs a day or more. I could have raised an issue about my boss being able to smoke in the workplace but when it came to evaluations, he would have had to decide whether my presence in the office made his life easier
Then a strange thing happened. In the early 80s, NOBODY was allowed to smoke, regardless of how much power you had. No worker was expected to risk their job or risk enraging fellow workers just to have a clean working environment

For 150 years, smokers got to decide what kind of air others were allowed to breathe. Now they have to breathe our air

Winger owns the air?

Who knew

Yes I do...especially the air that reaches my lungs

Then why go places with bad air?

You are a puzzle

Why should I be excluded from going somewhere because some asshole wants to foul the air?

You may exclude yourself from anywhere you wish.

Do you know how silly you actually sound?

Our country chooses to exclude those who are engaging in offensive behavior

 

[Pogo]

Well, the current assumption is that, unless a sign prohibiting smoking is displayed, then smoking is allowed. As an alternative to smoking bans, the idea has been proffered that businesses could simply post signs designating that smoking is allowed, and that anyone entering the premises is voluntarily accepting that risk. Yet this alternative is rejected. Why?

Nobody would do that. It would kill business.

Then why the mandatory bans?

Good lord, do you actually believe your own arguments?

I haven't argued anything about "mandatory bans". Are you even reading the thread, or just going "radon radon radon, lalala"?

 

[Pogo]

Well, the current assumption is that, unless a sign prohibiting smoking is displayed, then smoking is allowed. As an alternative to smoking bans, the idea has been proffered that businesses could simply post signs designating that smoking is allowed, and that anyone entering the premises is voluntarily accepting that risk. Yet this alternative is rejected. Why?

Nobody would do that. It would kill business.

Nonsense. Many business have already banned smoking voluntarily. Or offered non-smoking areas. Business will cater to the desires of their customers.

You're affirming what I just said in effect.

I said nobody would voluntarily advertise that they DO allow smoking. It would be like a big sign saying "most of you really don't want to be in here". Not generally the way advertising works.

But they did, for decades.

Bullshit.

 

[Dot Com]

I smoked for 40+ yrs. Loved it.
I've been smoke free for 3-4yr. now. Hate it.
Smokers are as much a part of the public as anyone and deserve to be accommodated no less than rabid health Nazis. Public places should offer smoking areas by law.

I quit smoking for six years once. I hated every day of it. Long after the withdrawal was gone I still hated not smoking. I went back for ten more years. Then I had an Ecigarette. I haven't had a cigarette since and never miss it.

"hated not smoking"? You are USMB's official crazy cat lady @Katzndogz

 

[rightwinger]

All discussion is pretty well moot

Smoking, for the most part, is no longer welcome in our society

It is one of the best things we ever did

 

[dblack]

Ahh ... so it was YOU who "bowed down to the almighty smokers"! If you'd had a pair and stood your ground, maybe half of us wouldn't now be whining to government like helpless children, begging them to make every goddamned decision for us.

Yes, I bowed down to the almighty smokers. My first job out of college, my boss was a chain smoker. Four packs a day or more. I could have raised an issue about my boss being able to smoke in the workplace but when it came to evaluations, he would have had to decide whether my presence in the office made his life easier
Then a strange thing happened. In the early 80s, NOBODY was allowed to smoke, regardless of how much power you had. No worker was expected to risk their job or risk enraging fellow workers just to have a clean working environment

For 150 years, smokers got to decide what kind of air others were allowed to breathe. Now they have to breathe our air

Winger owns the air?

Who knew

Yes I do...especially the air that reaches my lungs

Then why go places with bad air?

You are a puzzle

Why should I be excluded from going somewhere because some asshole wants to foul the air?

You shouldn't be. Who is suggesting that?

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, I bowed down to the almighty smokers. My first job out of college, my boss was a chain smoker. Four packs a day or more. I could have raised an issue about my boss being able to smoke in the workplace but when it came to evaluations, he would have had to decide whether my presence in the office made his life easier
Then a strange thing happened. In the early 80s, NOBODY was allowed to smoke, regardless of how much power you had. No worker was expected to risk their job or risk enraging fellow workers just to have a clean working environment

For 150 years, smokers got to decide what kind of air others were allowed to breathe. Now they have to breathe our air

Winger owns the air?

Who knew

Yes I do...especially the air that reaches my lungs

Then why go places with bad air?

You are a puzzle

Why should I be excluded from going somewhere because some asshole wants to foul the air?

You shouldn't be. Who is suggesting that?

Actually...no one

Smokers are no longer permitted to engage in their filthy habit in public