Zone1 Sir Lionel Luckhoo

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Hearsay, in legal terms, is an out-of-court statement offered as evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted in the statement. It's generally inadmissible in court because it lacks the reliability of being spoken under oath and being subject to cross-examination by the opposing party.


Do you know of any contemporaneous written accounts which document the miracles performed by Christ or his resurrection?

It's not hearsay, it's historical. You want to dismiss the first Christians worshipping Jesus as God because it corroborates the 24,000 written manuscripts. You want to dismiss the Babylonian Talmud's statement that Jesus was put to death for SORCERY and inciting Israel into apostasy because it corroborates the 24,000 written manuscripts.

 

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Do you know of any contemporaneous written accounts which document the miracles performed by Christ or his resurrection?

You mean besides the 24,000 written manuscripts and the Babylonian Talmud which explain why Jesus was worshipped as God by the first Christians?

 

[alang1216]

It's not hearsay, it's historical. You want to dismiss the first Christians worshipping Jesus as God because it corroborates the 24,000 written manuscripts. You want to dismiss the Babylonian Talmud's statement that Jesus was put to death for SORCERY and inciting Israel into apostasy because it corroborates the 24,000 written manuscripts.

 

[alang1216]

You mean besides the 24,000 written manuscripts and the Babylonian Talmud which explain why Jesus was worshipped as God by the first Christians?

The earliest manuscripts were written decades after the events.

contemporaneous​

adjective​

con·tem·po·ra·ne·ous kən-ˌtem-pə-ˈrā-nē-əs

Synonyms of contemporaneous
: existing, occurring, or originating during the same time

 

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Have you watched this? Can you thumbnail it for me?

 

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The earliest manuscripts were written decades after the events.

contemporaneous​

adjective​

con·tem·po·ra·ne·ous kən-ˌtem-pə-ˈrā-nē-əs

Synonyms of contemporaneous
: existing, occurring, or originating during the same time

So what? History has recorded the first Christians worshipping Jesus as God. Do you think that belief popped up decades later as in no one believed it after the event and then they believed it later? C'mon, man.

 

[alang1216]

Have you watched this? Can you thumbnail it for me?

I've read most of his books. There is a lot there but, in a nutshell, early Christians were a VERY diverse group with very diverse theologies. There were constant meetings of the different groups with an eye toward standardization, usually by taking elements of each group and fusing them together. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it failed. The Trinity is an example and elevated Jesus to divine status. Once Rome backed the Roman Christian church, the fusing was more successful though 'heresies' persisted.

 

[alang1216]

So what? History has recorded the first Christians worshipping Jesus as God. Do you think that belief popped up decades later as in no one believed it after the event and then they believed it later? C'mon, man.

The first Christians also believed that Jesus was NOT God but only human.

 

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I've read most of his books. There is a lot there but, in a nutshell, early Christians were a VERY diverse group with very diverse theologies. There were constant meetings of the different groups with an eye toward standardization, usually by taking elements of each group and fusing them together. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it failed. The Trinity is an example and elevated Jesus to divine status. Once Rome backed the Roman Christian church, the fusing was more successful though 'heresies' persisted.

And did these very diverse groups worship Jesus as God?

 

[alang1216]

And did these very diverse groups worship Jesus as God?

Some did, some did not.

 

[ding]

The first Christians also believed that Jesus was NOT God but only human.

That's not how NON-CHRISTIAN historians recorded it. I think you may be confusing pre and post resurrection perceptions. Post resurrection they worshipped him as God. Prior to resurrection they didn't know what to think. Much later they came to understand he was fully man and fully God. But the first Christians established the worship of Jesus as God.

 

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Some did, some did not.

Really? Which groups did not?

 

[alang1216]

Really? Which groups did not?

If only there were a video you could watch...

 

[alang1216]

That's not how NON-CHRISTIAN historians recorded it. I think you may be confusing pre and post resurrection perceptions. Post resurrection they worshipped him as God. Prior to resurrection they didn't know what to think. Much later they came to understand he was fully man and fully God. But the first Christians established the worship of Jesus as God.

No, I think I'll stand behind what I wrote. You seem to think early Christianity was homogeneous. It was most certainly NOT so. Until you understand that you should be more cautious with your assertions.

 

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If only there were a video you could watch...

If you are going to make the claim that some groups did not worship Jesus as God, then you ought to be able to name the group or groups. Because it's pretty obvious that TRADITION confirms that the first Christians worshipped Jesus as God. This was not a later development. They were first hand witnesses. They had good reason to worship Jesus as God. It's all documented in 24,000 written manuscripts.

 

[Foxfyre]

Sir Lionel Luckhoo is in the Guinness Book of World Records as the greatest defense attorney of all times, able to win in 245 straight trials. He was an atheist until his mid sixties when he was asked to put his talents to work on proving/disproving the case for Jesus's resurrection. After years on this study he said it is unequivocally true that Jesus died and was resurrected. He based his decision on Four E's.

• Early Accounts
• Empty Tomb
• Eyewitness Testimony
• Emerging Church

If you have still have doubts about the resurrection, what are they and why?

I have no doubts that God the the Holy Spirit are real and, by virtue of the strong sense that I have and am experiencing a profound relationship with the Divine, I believe that relationship has never steered me into doing or believing wrongly or caused me to think that I am sinning with my beliefs in what the Bible teaches us.

I do believe many of our interpretations of the Bible are likely not exactly the way it actually was and, when we meet in Heaven, we'll likely be having a good laugh at how much of all that we got wrong.

But nothing made it into the Bible unless it was written by somebody who had witnessed the events or personally knew somebody who had witnessed the events.

We also have several non-Christian sources that confirm many of the events recorded in the Bible.

The essence/principles of the Bible I have to believe have been divinely inspired and protected even if every fact and/or belief we have cannot in the end be confirmed.

Those who do not want to believe Jesus was God/Son of God/Divine, who do not want to believe in the miracles or the fulfilled prophecies or accounts of various people's response to the Christian message have written their own histories and theories and sets of facts and put out their own doctrines that they want to believe instead.

That is their right. But I pray that they come to understand how wrong that is.

 

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No, I think I'll stand behind what I wrote. You seem to think early Christianity was homogeneous. It was most certainly NOT so. Until you understand that you should be more cautious with your assertions.

I've yet to see any evidence that says anything other than the first Christians worshipped Jesus as God.

 

[alang1216]

I've yet to see any evidence that says anything other than the first Christians worshipped Jesus as God.

I gave you a link to that evidence but you ignored it.

 

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I gave you a link to that evidence but you ignored it.

Then just say the names of the group or groups. That's where you got it from, right? Just name them. Because the very first Christians were Jewish. Were these groups you are speaking about Jewish? Did they witness the miracles performed by Christ?

 

[alang1216]

Then just say the names of the group or groups. That's where you got it from, right? Just name them. Because the very first Christians were Jewish. Were these groups you are speaking about Jewish? Did they witness the miracles performed by Christ?

Ebionites are one example.