Since when does the Catholic Church have the right to force their religious values...

[bripat9643]

Wrong. They aren't saying "don't work here if you aren't a Catholic." They're saying "don't work here if you expect us to pay for your abortion." The later is perfectly legal.

yawn.....we already been through this.

Yep, and you lost the argument.

 

[Valox]

They served the public before Obamacare, but they still didn't offer birth control or abortion services. How is it Constitutional before Obamacare but not after?

Obamacare is "unconstitutional", but we are not operating in this framework.

I have said numerous time in this thread, get rid of Obamacare, and we get rid of this problem.

What don't you understand?

Yes, getting rid of Obamacare would get rid of the problem, but that still wouldn't make your argument anymore valid. The church didn't offer birth control or abortion services before Obamacare. Yet, you claim that's illegal because they offer services to the public.

Yes. What part of stop serving the public, stop taking state aid, and stop hiring non-Catholics don't you understand?

A "Catholic" hospital is not analogous to the Catholic Church. However, some people are having a hard time realizing this fact.

Instead, you want Catholic institutions to serve the public, receive billions in state aid, and hire non-Catholics, yet still have the ability to push their religious views upon the masses?

What part of the First Amendment don't you understand?

 

[California Girl]

Why raise taxes or deficits if you are not money driven?

I am going by your own words, yet you dispute my facts....lolololol.

Are you stupid generally or can you just not do math?

Do the fucking math. The federal and state funding that the Church receives does not cover the costs of providing those services. Our hospitals do not 'make money', our schools do not 'make money', our social care programs do not 'make money'.... the shortfall - billions of dollars - is paid for by the Church.

If you want the Church to stop providing those services - you fucking pay that shortfall. Got it? Good.

Healthcare alone - $5.7 billion dollars. Enjoy the tax hike.

Or, you can just recognize that the Catholic Church does not 'make money', it spends it. On you and yours. And we do so happily - because it is our Christian Duty... now, get the fuck out of my Church and let us carry on caring for those people that you so clearly do not care for.

I want to roll back Obamacare, but I am responsible for higher taxes and deficits since Catholics did not live up to their religious duty????


Try again.

Well, that clears up the question about general stupidity.

We are happy to undertake our religious duty. We have done so quietly and without fanfare for decades. What I am saying is that if you say 'don't provide the services if you won't fund the murder of unborn children'.... then be aware of what you are asking for. Without my Church, your taxes - or your deficit - would be substantially higher than they are now.

We will carry on quietly helping those who need help, and we will do so without fucking funding abortion. Got that? Good.

Just don't tell Obama he's gonna get his ass kicked in the GE.... we don't want to ruin the surprise.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Progressives need to relocate, it's the only way we're going to get along.

They hate our economic system, they hate our Republic, they hate our Constitution and they hate that we were founded by people who had an unshakable belief in God.

You need to relocate.

Yes

but all the "good" communist countries are gone now

 

[Mustang]

So don't work for them. What's the problem?

Maybe the non Catholic employees should fill a class action law suit against their discriminatory employer.

No one is forcing them to work there, so they have no case. Get it?

Is that the new bottom line for equal protection under the law? Force?

 

[Valox]

There is a difference - if one uses rational thought over hyperbolic bullshit - between a state health care and a federal one.

I still support Romney... but now - because of Obama's behavior towards my Church - I'm firmly in the 'anyone but Obama' camp.

Let's recap. Romneycare is great for the heavily Catholic state of Massachusetts, but Obamacare is wrong for Catholics.

Spin much?

(c) This section shall not apply to a subscription certificate under an individual or group medical service agreement delivered, issued or renewed under this chapter if that subscription certificate is purchased by an employer that is a church or qualified church-controlled organization, as those terms are defined in 26 U.S.C. section 3121(w)(3)(A) and (B).

General Laws: CHAPTER 176B, Section 4W

stupid much?

How many hospitals in MA qualify for this?

Certainly not Caritas Christi Health Care .

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What gives the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter) the right to force their religious convictions on employees who aren't even catholic?

The First Amendment gives the actual churches, monasteries, seminaries and the like the right to freely assemble with whomever they wish. But when Catholic-affiliated entities function as private sector employers, they’re subject to the same employment laws and policies as any other private employer, including compensation.

Remember that paying for health insurance is a form of compensation, like regular wages, bonuses, vacation or sick leave. A Catholic-affiliated employer may no more withhold regular wages because the employee may use that income to buy contraceptives than withhold paying for health insurance for the same reason.

Once an employee has earned his compensation – be it regular wage or health insurance – he has the right to do with it as he sees fit, without interference from the employer.

Consequently, government regulations requiring Catholic-affiliated employers provide comprehensive health insurance is no different than requiring any employer to pay minimum wage or overtime after 40 hours in a workweek.

Moreover, the requirement is in no way a violation of the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment: no Catholic is being restricted from practicing any aspect of his faith. That an non-Catholic employee of a Catholic-affiliated employer might use his health coverage to purchase contraceptives is no difference than using his regular wages to purchase a condom over the counter at a drug store – since the income source to fund both the insurance and payroll is the same.

And that an employee of a Catholic-affiliated employer may use his compensation – be it regular wage or health coverage – to purchase contraceptives is not a rational based justification for withholding health insurance compensation.

 

[del]

Let's recap. Romneycare is great for the heavily Catholic state of Massachusetts, but Obamacare is wrong for Catholics.

Spin much?

(c) This section shall not apply to a subscription certificate under an individual or group medical service agreement delivered, issued or renewed under this chapter if that subscription certificate is purchased by an employer that is a church or qualified church-controlled organization, as those terms are defined in 26 U.S.C. section 3121(w)(3)(A) and (B).

General Laws: CHAPTER 176B, Section 4W

stupid much?

How many hospitals in MA qualify for this?

google is your friend, and i'm not your researcher.

 

[Valox]

Are you stupid generally or can you just not do math?

Do the fucking math. The federal and state funding that the Church receives does not cover the costs of providing those services. Our hospitals do not 'make money', our schools do not 'make money', our social care programs do not 'make money'.... the shortfall - billions of dollars - is paid for by the Church.

If you want the Church to stop providing those services - you fucking pay that shortfall. Got it? Good.

Healthcare alone - $5.7 billion dollars. Enjoy the tax hike.

Or, you can just recognize that the Catholic Church does not 'make money', it spends it. On you and yours. And we do so happily - because it is our Christian Duty... now, get the fuck out of my Church and let us carry on caring for those people that you so clearly do not care for.

I want to roll back Obamacare, but I am responsible for higher taxes and deficits since Catholics did not live up to their religious duty????


Try again.

Well, that clears up the question about general stupidity.

We are happy to undertake our religious duty. We have done so quietly and without fanfare for decades. What I am saying is that if you say 'don't provide the services if you won't fund the murder of unborn children'.... then be aware of what you are asking for. Without my Church, your taxes - or your deficit - would be substantially higher than they are now.

We will carry on quietly helping those who need help, and we will do so without fucking funding abortion. Got that? Good.

Just don't tell Obama he's gonna get his ass kicked in the GE.... we don't want to ruin the surprise.

Again, what part about I don't support Obama don't you understand?

Keep your charities to yourself, but please stop accepting billions of dollars in state aid.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Obamacare is "unconstitutional", but we are not operating in this framework.

I have said numerous time in this thread, get rid of Obamacare, and we get rid of this problem.

What don't you understand?

Yes, getting rid of Obamacare would get rid of the problem, but that still wouldn't make your argument anymore valid. The church didn't offer birth control or abortion services before Obamacare. Yet, you claim that's illegal because they offer services to the public.

Yes. What part of stop serving the public, stop taking state aid, and stop hiring non-Catholics don't you understand?

A "Catholic" hospital is not analogous to the Catholic Church. However, some people are having a hard time realizing this fact.

Instead, you want Catholic institutions to serve the public, receive billions in state aid, and hire non-Catholics, yet still have the ability to push their religious views upon the masses?

What part of the First Amendment don't you understand?

What part don't you understand....?

If Obama and the Left gets away with forcing Catholic institutions to become "secular".....the next thing will be to rip off all the crosses....

 

[Valox]

(c) This section shall not apply to a subscription certificate under an individual or group medical service agreement delivered, issued or renewed under this chapter if that subscription certificate is purchased by an employer that is a church or qualified church-controlled organization, as those terms are defined in 26 U.S.C. section 3121(w)(3)(A) and (B).

General Laws: CHAPTER 176B, Section 4W

stupid much?

How many hospitals in MA qualify for this?

google is your friend, and i'm not your researcher.

So, you have a number?

 

[The T]

How many hospitals in MA qualify for this?

google is your friend, and i'm not your researcher.

So, you have a number?

Not very bright, are you?

 

[Valox]

Yes, getting rid of Obamacare would get rid of the problem, but that still wouldn't make your argument anymore valid. The church didn't offer birth control or abortion services before Obamacare. Yet, you claim that's illegal because they offer services to the public.

Yes. What part of stop serving the public, stop taking state aid, and stop hiring non-Catholics don't you understand?

A "Catholic" hospital is not analogous to the Catholic Church. However, some people are having a hard time realizing this fact.

Instead, you want Catholic institutions to serve the public, receive billions in state aid, and hire non-Catholics, yet still have the ability to push their religious views upon the masses?

What part of the First Amendment don't you understand?

What part don't you understand....?

If Obama and the Left gets away with forcing Catholic institutions to become "secular".....the next thing will be to rip off all the crosses....

What part of take Obamacare and shove it up your ass don't you understand?

 

[Valox]

google is your friend, and i'm not your researcher.

So, you have a number?

Not very bright, are you?

link?

 

[Valox]

The First Amendment gives the actual churches, monasteries, seminaries and the like the right to freely assemble with whomever they wish. But when Catholic-affiliated entities function as private sector employers, they’re subject to the same employment laws and policies as any other private employer, including compensation.

But, but, but they are special and their First Amendment rights are being violated.

Cry me a river....

These people should throw a parade. It would be more amusing.

 

[Wry Catcher]

What bullshit!!! It's simply a violation of the First Amendment for the RCC to force their morals on their workers. The Constitution is supposed to protect us from that sort of thing. That particular attitude, when it comes to commerce, has been on the way out for a 100 years. It's in the same arena as safety, you don't get to play with peoples' lives just because they work for you. That may be the libertarian dream, but it's also why you've never seen anyone turn a government over to them.

total bullshit. The First Amendment prevents to government from forcing its morals on U.S. citizens. It specifically prevents the government from interfering with the practices of any religion. That obviously includes the rules they set at the workplace unless those rules violate your Constitutional rights. There is no right to birth control or abortion, so Obama Administration stepped over the line.

bripat writes: The First Amendment prevents to government from forcing its morals on U.S. citizens. It specifically prevents the government from interfering with the practices of any religion. . Is he insane or simply simple in the head?

Would the Federal Government intervene if a priest, rabbi or minister sacrificed a Bald Eagle in Yosemite National Park?

Would the Federal Government intevene if a priest, rabbi or minister chose to marry a five year old girl to an adult male on the shore of Yellowstone Lake, in Yellowstond NP?

Would Federal Officers ignore an orthodox Sikh wearing a kirpan upon entering the chambers of the HoR or the Senate?

 

[syrenn]

I appreciate this. However, these sentiments do not take away my argument that these institutions who serve the public, receive state aid, and hire non-Catholics should be exempt from Obamacare.

Just because a religious institution serves the public does not mean the institution must become secular...

Just because a religious institution receives state aid does not mean it must dance to the secular tune...

Just beause a religious institution hires non-Catholics does not mean it must become non-Catholic in nature...

Sure, lets use state funds to serve the public in order to push a religious view.

What part of the 1st Amendment don't you understand?

p.s. thank you for bringing this conversation back to the OP.

They are not pushing a religious view...

they are not offering something that goes against their religious view.....

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Yes. What part of stop serving the public, stop taking state aid, and stop hiring non-Catholics don't you understand?

A "Catholic" hospital is not analogous to the Catholic Church. However, some people are having a hard time realizing this fact.

Instead, you want Catholic institutions to serve the public, receive billions in state aid, and hire non-Catholics, yet still have the ability to push their religious views upon the masses?

What part of the First Amendment don't you understand?

What part don't you understand....?

If Obama and the Left gets away with forcing Catholic institutions to become "secular".....the next thing will be to rip off all the crosses....

What part of take Obamacare and shove it up your ass don't you understand?

glad you agree.....however the rest of your talk doesn't seem to match...

 

[Valox]

Just because a religious institution serves the public does not mean the institution must become secular...

Just because a religious institution receives state aid does not mean it must dance to the secular tune...

Just beause a religious institution hires non-Catholics does not mean it must become non-Catholic in nature...

Sure, lets use state funds to serve the public in order to push a religious view.

What part of the 1st Amendment don't you understand?

p.s. thank you for bringing this conversation back to the OP.

They are not pushing a religious view...

they are not offering something that goes against their religious view.....

BS, fucking BS.

Are you for real?

 

[Valox]

What part don't you understand....?

If Obama and the Left gets away with forcing Catholic institutions to become "secular".....the next thing will be to rip off all the crosses....

What part of take Obamacare and shove it up your ass don't you understand?

glad you agree.....however the rest of your talk doesn't seem to match...

It is called context.