Since when does the Catholic Church have the right to force their religious values...

[The T]

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

So don't work for them. What's the problem?

Maybe the non Catholic employees should fill a class action law suit against their discriminatory employer.

No one is forcing them to work there, so they have no case. Get it?

 

[Neotrotsky]

Who are you going to elect that isn't a whore to special interests?

The guy who won't force us to violate our faith. Right now, that guy is not Obama. And I'm happy if he stands by this decision right up to election day. I don't want him to back down.

I'm praying for his continued stupidity.

You do realize that Obamacare is a recycled Republican idea.

Plus, weren't you are Mitt Romney fan or did he lose his flavor of the week with you?

Not really
1)
state vs federal is totally different, there is no US Constitutional role for this

2) the "mandate" originally called for by conservative groups
- it sought coverage for catastrophic- not universal
-induce people to buy coverage primarily through a health credit or voucher, financed in part by a fundamental reform of the tax treatment of health coverage, rather than by a stick.
- the "mandate" was actually the loss of certain tax breaks for those not choosing to buy coverage, not a legal requirement.


Sorry, but Papa Obama Care is not Romney Care and it is not even close to the
Conservative model first put together years ago


Even if it was, then I would say they are both wrong

 

[bripat9643]

Don't serve the public using public funds all while violating the Civil Rights Acts.

What civil rights are being violated?

That is what I am asking, but have not received an answer.

Obamacare violates the the First Amendment rights of the church.

 

[bripat9643]

Should Muslims be forced to provide bacon cheeseburgers to their employees? .

No, since the federal mandate is wrong.

However, if all employers who serve the public are forced to obey a BS federal mandate to serve bacon cheeseburgers to their employees, then Muslims should not be exempted.

Not according to the Supreme Court.

 

[WillowTree]

all libtards should encourage obama to stand firm on this matter.. truly. earnestly, and with conviction. go ahead. dew it.

 

[del]

You do realize that Obamacare is a recycled Republican idea.

Plus, weren't you are Mitt Romney fan or did he lose his flavor of the week with you?

There is a difference - if one uses rational thought over hyperbolic bullshit - between a state health care and a federal one.

I still support Romney... but now - because of Obama's behavior towards my Church - I'm firmly in the 'anyone but Obama' camp.

Let's recap. Romneycare is great for the heavily Catholic state of Massachusetts, but Obamacare is wrong for Catholics.

Spin much?

(c) This section shall not apply to a subscription certificate under an individual or group medical service agreement delivered, issued or renewed under this chapter if that subscription certificate is purchased by an employer that is a church or qualified church-controlled organization, as those terms are defined in 26 U.S.C. section 3121(w)(3)(A) and (B).

General Laws: CHAPTER 176B, Section 4W

stupid much?

 

[bripat9643]

They are institutions that serve the public.

Play your semantic games all you want, I am not biting.

They served the public before Obamacare, but they still didn't offer birth control or abortion services. How is it Constitutional before Obamacare but not after?

 

[Valox]

There is a difference - if one uses rational thought over hyperbolic bullshit - between a state health care and a federal one.

I still support Romney... but now - because of Obama's behavior towards my Church - I'm firmly in the 'anyone but Obama' camp.

Let's recap. Romneycare is great for the heavily Catholic state of Massachusetts, but Obamacare is wrong for Catholics.

Spin much?

No spin required. Romney didn't force Catholics to violate their conscience.... do we need to provide you with the actual clause - again - before you give up an argument that was already blown out of the water?

Moron.

More name calling from our most loving and understanding Catholic poster. No offense, but my Catholic grandmother would severely disagree with your behavior. You don't treat people nice, which is the opposite of your Church teachings.

Caritas Christi, a Catholic health care system operating six hospitals in Massachusetts, entered into a for profit joint venture to offer a state-subsidized Commonwealth Care health plan to low income patients. The Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services (ERDs), a set of norms adopted by all U.S. Bishops prohibits Catholic hospitals from providing direct abortions and from entering into arrangements to facilitate access to abortions. But this for profit health plan would have provided coverage for abortions with $50 co-pays. Indeed, all plans offered through the Commonwealth Care program are required to provide coverage for abortions.

In order to get approval of their plan from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the Caritas Christi joint venture agreed to facilitate access to abortion as well as other family planning services through a 24 hour telephone line. Thus although abortions were not to be performed in Catholic hospitals, Caritas Christi apparently agreed to provide referrals for abortion.
The Cutting Edge News

 

[del]

I try to dumb it down for people who took too much brown acid.

i doubt very much that there's any effort involved on your part.

It takes a lot of effort to dumb down ideas for people who took too much brown acid.

You think too much of yourself.

for an intelligent person, it probably would.

for you? not so much

 

[The T]

What civil rights are being violated?

That is what I am asking, but have not received an answer.

Obamacare violates the the First Amendment rights of the church.

Yes, it does. The part of Ocare where Catholics are upset wasn't supposed be enacted until 2013. Why did Sebilius and Obama engage this part of Ocare now duting the election year? And will they back off?

 

[Neotrotsky]

Notice how the left is trying to diffuse or spin
Papa Obama care by falsely claiming conservatives wanted
the same thing

I agree the left should stand proud by Papa Obama for the new
world he is making for us


I do believe since Papa Obama is laying the foundation of a new Progressive "Empire"and with today's progressive version of 'panem et circenses' a symbol worthy of him must be found.

Because Papa Obama is the "Founder" of a new great society!
Built on helping the poor and gov't control of Healthcare. He is more like the "loving mother" to the concepts that will rebuild our society. After all, in his own words, "we are the ones we have been waiting for..."


We should be proud of this concept and build monuments to it, so future generations can recall this time. Unlike every single failed statist gov't in history, we got it right ! (this time).

Yes Papa Obama is the "mother" of all time....

 

[bripat9643]

Fair enough, and to clear up confusion.

According to the CRA, employers who serve the public cannot discriminate based on religious views. Therefore, arguments that say don't work here don't fly.

What don't you understand about the CRA?

Wrong. They aren't saying "don't work here if you aren't a Catholic." They're saying "don't work here if you expect us to pay for your abortion." The later is perfectly legal.

 

[Valox]

They are institutions that serve the public.

Play your semantic games all you want, I am not biting.

They served the public before Obamacare, but they still didn't offer birth control or abortion services. How is it Constitutional before Obamacare but not after?

Obamacare is "unconstitutional", but we are not operating in this framework.

I have said numerous time in this thread, get rid of Obamacare, and we get rid of this problem.

What don't you understand?

 

[California Girl]

IOW, the Catholic faith is driven by money, not good deeds.

The facts do not support that opinion. But you have yet to let reality get in the way of your opinions.

Why raise taxes or deficits if you are not money driven?

I am going by your own words, yet you dispute my facts....lolololol.

Are you stupid generally or can you just not do math?

Do the fucking math. The federal and state funding that the Church receives does not cover the costs of providing those services. Our hospitals do not 'make money', our schools do not 'make money', our social care programs do not 'make money'.... the shortfall - billions of dollars - is paid for by the Church.

If you want the Church to stop providing those services - you fucking pay that shortfall. Got it? Good.

Healthcare alone - $5.7 billion dollars. Enjoy the tax hike.

Or, you can just recognize that the Catholic Church does not 'make money', it spends it. On you and yours. And we do so happily - because it is our Christian Duty... now, get the fuck out of my Church and let us carry on caring for those people that you so clearly do not care for.

 

[Valox]

Fair enough, and to clear up confusion.

According to the CRA, employers who serve the public cannot discriminate based on religious views. Therefore, arguments that say don't work here don't fly.

What don't you understand about the CRA?

Wrong. They aren't saying "don't work here if you aren't a Catholic." They're saying "don't work here if you expect us to pay for your abortion." The later is perfectly legal.

yawn.....we already been through this.

 

[bripat9643]

The Church is exempt from the mandate.

Please show me where Obamacare is forcing Catholic priests to provide birth control for nuns?

You're steering directly into pure idiocy now.

 

[Valox]

The facts do not support that opinion. But you have yet to let reality get in the way of your opinions.

Why raise taxes or deficits if you are not money driven?

I am going by your own words, yet you dispute my facts....lolololol.

Are you stupid generally or can you just not do math?

Do the fucking math. The federal and state funding that the Church receives does not cover the costs of providing those services. Our hospitals do not 'make money', our schools do not 'make money', our social care programs do not 'make money'.... the shortfall - billions of dollars - is paid for by the Church.

If you want the Church to stop providing those services - you fucking pay that shortfall. Got it? Good.

Healthcare alone - $5.7 billion dollars. Enjoy the tax hike.

Or, you can just recognize that the Catholic Church does not 'make money', it spends it. On you and yours. And we do so happily - because it is our Christian Duty... now, get the fuck out of my Church and let us carry on caring for those people that you so clearly do not care for.

I want to roll back Obamacare, but I am responsible for higher taxes and deficits since Catholics did not live up to their religious duty????


Try again.

 

[bripat9643]

They are institutions that serve the public.

Play your semantic games all you want, I am not biting.

They served the public before Obamacare, but they still didn't offer birth control or abortion services. How is it Constitutional before Obamacare but not after?

Obamacare is "unconstitutional", but we are not operating in this framework.

I have said numerous time in this thread, get rid of Obamacare, and we get rid of this problem.

What don't you understand?

Yes, getting rid of Obamacare would get rid of the problem, but that still wouldn't make your argument anymore valid. The church didn't offer birth control or abortion services before Obamacare. Yet, you claim that's illegal because they offer services to the public.

 

[California Girl]

There is a difference - if one uses rational thought over hyperbolic bullshit - between a state health care and a federal one.

I still support Romney... but now - because of Obama's behavior towards my Church - I'm firmly in the 'anyone but Obama' camp.

Let's recap. Romneycare is great for the heavily Catholic state of Massachusetts, but Obamacare is wrong for Catholics.

Spin much?

(c) This section shall not apply to a subscription certificate under an individual or group medical service agreement delivered, issued or renewed under this chapter if that subscription certificate is purchased by an employer that is a church or qualified church-controlled organization, as those terms are defined in 26 U.S.C. section 3121(w)(3)(A) and (B).

General Laws: CHAPTER 176B, Section 4W

stupid much?

I need to put that on my sig... since certain morons seem to conveniently overlook that part.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Progressives need to relocate, it's the only way we're going to get along.

They hate our economic system, they hate our Republic, they hate our Constitution and they hate that we were founded by people who had an unshakable belief in God.

You need to relocate.