SILLY SARA PALIN, "Death Panels" in the STIMULUS BILL not the Health Care Bill

[edthecynic]

From the actual bill starting on pg 441:

‘‘Subtitle A—Promotion of Health Information Technology
10 ‘‘SEC. 3001. OFFICE OF THE NATIONAL COORDINATOR FOR
11 HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY.
12 ‘‘(a) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is established within
13 the Department of Health and Human Services an Office
14 of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology (referred to in this section as the ‘Office’). The Of16
fice shall be headed by a National Coordinator who shall
17 be appointed by the Secretary and shall report directly to
18 the Secretary.
19 ‘‘(b) PURPOSE.—The National Coordinator shall per20
form the duties under subsection (c) in a manner con21
sistent with the development of a nationwide health information technology infrastructure that allows for the elec23
tronic use and exchange of information and that

442
•HR 1 EH
1 ‘‘(1) ensures that each patient’s health information is secure and protected, in accordance with ap-
3 plicable law;

Well, it looks like BETSY (PP) has cut & ran.

Well BETSY, as I said in the other thread, the part I underlined that gives the context and you, Betsy, ignored that came BEFORE the part you cite:
"advance the delivery of patient-centered medical care"

Only dishonest CON$ would call increasing information to doctors and hospitals to provide, quoting from the bill, "increased consumer choice, and improved outcomes in health care services" a "death panel."

Again it is a health benefits advisory council, as set forth in the very language you quoted, which people are considering "death panels". People feel some government agent is going to say granma can't get chemotherapy becuase she is too old and its way cheaper to hop her up on oxycontin till she dies.

If you are going to willfully overlook the very language you quoted its impossible to have an honest debate with you.

BETSY, BETSY, BETSY don't you ever get tired of lying???

Show me the words health "benefits advisory council" in
"THE VERY LANGUAGE I QUOTED!"
How can anyone have an "honest debate" with someone who makes up crap out of thin air and then claims the crap they just made up came from the bill I cited????????????

Nothing but crickets there Betsy!

 

[rdean]

Governor Palin proclaimed April 16, 2008 as Healthcare Decisions Day in Alaska

Sarah Palin was FOR death panels before she was AGAINST them.

 

[edthecynic]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Cricket Sound[/ame]

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

BETSY, BETSY, BETSY don't you ever get tired of lying???

Show me the words health "benefits advisory council" in
"THE VERY LANGUAGE I QUOTED!"
How can anyone have an "honest debate" with someone who makes up crap out of thin air and then claims the crap they just made up came from the bill I cited????????????

Again it is a health benefits advisory council, as set forth in the very language you quoted, which people are considering "death panels". People feel some government agent is going to say granma can't get chemotherapy becuase she is too old and its way cheaper to hop her up on oxycontin till she dies.

If you are going to willfully overlook the very language you quoted its impossible to have an honest debate with you.

 

[edthecynic]

From the actual bill starting on pg 441:

‘‘Subtitle A—Promotion of Health Information Technology
10 ‘‘SEC. 3001. OFFICE OF THE NATIONAL COORDINATOR FOR
11 HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY.
12 ‘‘(a) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is established within
13 the Department of Health and Human Services an Office
14 of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology (referred to in this section as the ‘Office’). The Of16
fice shall be headed by a National Coordinator who shall
17 be appointed by the Secretary and shall report directly to
18 the Secretary.
19 ‘‘(b) PURPOSE.—The National Coordinator shall per20
form the duties under subsection (c) in a manner con21
sistent with the development of a nationwide health information technology infrastructure that allows for the elec23
tronic use and exchange of information and that

442
•HR 1 EH
1 ‘‘(1) ensures that each patient’s health information is secure and protected, in accordance with ap-
3 plicable law;

Again it is a health benefits advisory council, as set forth in the very language you quoted, which people are considering "death panels". People feel some government agent is going to say granma can't get chemotherapy becuase she is too old and its way cheaper to hop her up on oxycontin till she dies.

If you are going to willfully overlook the very language you quoted its impossible to have an honest debate with you.

BETSY, BETSY, BETSY don't you ever get tired of lying???

Show me the words health "benefits advisory council" in
"THE VERY LANGUAGE I QUOTED!"
How can anyone have an "honest debate" with someone who makes up crap out of thin air and then claims the crap they just made up came from the bill I cited????????????

Nothing but crickets there Betsy!

BETSY, BETSY, BETSY don't you ever get tired of lying???

Show me the words health "benefits advisory council" in
"THE VERY LANGUAGE I QUOTED!"
How can anyone have an "honest debate" with someone who makes up crap out of thin air and then claims the crap they just made up came from the bill I cited????????????

Again it is a health benefits advisory council, as set forth in the very language you quoted, which people are considering "death panels". People feel some government agent is going to say granma can't get chemotherapy becuase she is too old and its way cheaper to hop her up on oxycontin till she dies.

If you are going to willfully overlook the very language you quoted its impossible to have an honest debate with you.

Betsy, Betsy, Betsy, simply repeating your lies without highlighting "the very language" I quoted makes a fool of yourself.

And I love the part where you make it MY fault that you can't debate because YOU can't back up your lies with "the very language" I quoted.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

maybe i should take the time to read your last 6 posts instead of just giving you a cut/paste.

I'll think about it.



Sorry i really didn't read anything you were posting after you pulled the bullshit in that post a few weeks ago.

 

[edthecynic]

BETSY, BETSY, BETSY don't you ever get tired of lying???

Show me the words health "benefits advisory council" in
"THE VERY LANGUAGE I QUOTED!"
How can anyone have an "honest debate" with someone who makes up crap out of thin air and then claims the crap they just made up came from the bill I cited????????????

Again it is a health benefits advisory council, as set forth in the very language you quoted, which people are considering "death panels". People feel some government agent is going to say granma can't get chemotherapy becuase she is too old and its way cheaper to hop her up on oxycontin till she dies.

If you are going to willfully overlook the very language you quoted its impossible to have an honest debate with you.

maybe i should take the time to read your last 6 posts instead of just giving you a cut/paste.

I'll think about it.



Sorry i really didn't read anything you were posting after you pulled the bullshit in that post a few weeks ago.

Betsy, you obviously read my post enough to edit out "the very language I quoted."

And I love your rationalization that when YOU make crap up out of thin air that is not in the bill at all but you claim it is, that makes my post BS and gives you permission to avoid showing "the very language I quoted.".

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I still haven't gone back to actually read anything other than the small snipet i quoted and snidely cut/paste the same response too.

Give me a day or 2 for the other threads i'm having fun in to get boring and i'll spend some time. Your not on my "worthy to spend time on" list.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I gave page numbers and the language from within the bill itself. Why dont you accept the challenge and show me how my interpretation of the langauge on the stated page numbers of the stimulus bill is wrong.

Or are you just being a hack? PLEASE take me up on this challenge, I dare you.

First of all, your post is not YOUR misinterpretation of the bill, it is the totally discredited Betsy McCaughey's perversion of the bill you never even read. No wonder honest people never trust anything CON$ say.

Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey
Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey - Bloomberg.com

One word from the bill "guide" is not "language" from the bill. Obviously you never bothered to read the pages you cited yourself. SHE, not YOU, took one word from the bill and seven words from Daschle's book and everything else from her perverted imagination.

From the actual bill starting on pg 441:

‘‘Subtitle A—Promotion of Health
9 Information Technology
10 ‘‘SEC. 3001. OFFICE OF THE NATIONAL COORDINATOR FOR
11 HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY.
12 ‘‘(a) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is established within
13 the Department of Health and Human Services an Office
14 of the National Coordinator for Health Information Tech15
nology (referred to in this section as the ‘Office’). The Of16
fice shall be headed by a National Coordinator who shall
17 be appointed by the Secretary and shall report directly to
18 the Secretary.
19 ‘‘(b) PURPOSE.—The National Coordinator shall per20
form the duties under subsection (c) in a manner con21
sistent with the development of a nationwide health infor22
mation technology infrastructure that allows for the elec23
tronic use and exchange of information and that

442
•HR 1 EH
1 ‘‘(1) ensures that each patient’s health informa-
2 tion is secure and protected, in accordance with ap-
3 plicable law;
4 ‘‘(2) improves health care quality, reduces med-
5 ical errors, reduces health disparities, and advances
6 the delivery of patient-centered medical care;
7 ‘‘(3) reduces health care costs resulting from
8 inefficiency, medical errors, inappropriate care, du-
9 plicative care, and incomplete information;
10 ‘‘(4) provides appropriate information to help
11 guide medical decisions at the time and place of
12 care;
13 ‘‘(5) ensures the inclusion of meaningful public
14 input in such development of such infrastructure;
15 ‘‘(6) improves the coordination of care and in-
16 formation among hospitals, laboratories, physician
17 offices, and other entities through an effective infra-
18 structure for the secure and authorized exchange of
19 health care information;
20 ‘‘(7) improves public health activities and facili-
21 tates the early identification and rapid response to
22 public health threats and emergencies, including bio-
23 terror events and infectious disease outbreaks;
24 ‘‘(8) facilitates health and clinical research and
25 health care quality

443
•HR 1 EH
1 ‘‘(9) promotes prevention of chronic diseases;
2 ‘‘(10) promotes a more effective marketplace,
3 greater competition, greater systems analysis, in-
4 creased consumer choice, and improved outcomes in
5 health care services; and
6 ‘‘(11) improves efforts to reduce health dispari-
7 ties.

A health benefits advisory council, run by the federal government, to "provide(s) appropriate information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care"

What part of that makes you think the federal govt isn't deciding on what level of care a patient receives?

NEXT

Ed I refer you back to the original post that started the out of context exchanges and responses aimed to mis-direct.

See where you say "one word is not language from the bill" However the term Guide means to advise or counsel somebody, or influence the way somebody behaves or acts

The language instructs the government to "provide appropriate information to help
guide medical decisions at the time and place of care;

here let me put up the bill's language for you (i'll make the parts red i feel you overlook in your analasys)

Subtitle A—Promotion of Health
Information Technology

SEC. 3001. OFFICE OF THE NATIONAL COORDINATOR FOR HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (pages 441,442 of the bill)

ESTABLISHMENT.—There is established within the Department of Health and Human Services an Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology (referred to in this section as the ‘Office’). The Office shall be headed by a National Coordinator who shall be appointed by the Secretary and shall report directly to the Secretary.
PURPOSE.—The National Coordinator shall perform the duties under subsection (c) in a manner consistent with the development of a nationwide health information technology infrastructure that allows for the electronic use and exchange of information and that—
‘(1) ensures that each patient’s health information is secure and protected, in accordance with applicable law;
(2) improves health care quality, reduces medical errors, reduces health disparities, and advances the delivery of patient-centered medical care;
(3) reduces health care costs resulting from inefficiency, medical errors, inappropriate care, duplicative care, and incomplete information;
(4) provides appropriate information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care

The national coordinator is given the power to "guide medical decisions" AKA advise on the benefits a person should be allowed to receive. If a doctor does not follow these reccomendations they can be severly penalized...this is stated in several places on the following pages 518, 540-541.

Their power is not specificlaly limited in the bill therefore it leaves tons of room for the government to take more power than they are telling us they want right now.

If you want to ignore it I can't stop you.

You can have the last word if you want it as i'm not going to follow you in circles

 

[edthecynic]

I still haven't gone back to actually read anything other than the small snipet i quoted and snidely cut/paste the same response too.

Give me a day or 2 for the other threads i'm having fun in to get boring and i'll spend some time. Your not on my "worthy to spend time on" list.

Translation: I'm on your "too observant to debate with" list.

Betsy, you fool no one. You read every word several times. You're just too dishonest to admit you made up the "benefits advisory council" crap.

 

[edthecynic]

First of all, your post is not YOUR misinterpretation of the bill, it is the totally discredited Betsy McCaughey's perversion of the bill you never even read. No wonder honest people never trust anything CON$ say.

Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey
Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey - Bloomberg.com

One word from the bill "guide" is not "language" from the bill. Obviously you never bothered to read the pages you cited yourself. SHE, not YOU, took one word from the bill and seven words from Daschle's book and everything else from her perverted imagination.

From the actual bill starting on pg 441:

‘‘Subtitle A—Promotion of Health
9 Information Technology
10 ‘‘SEC. 3001. OFFICE OF THE NATIONAL COORDINATOR FOR
11 HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY.
12 ‘‘(a) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is established within
13 the Department of Health and Human Services an Office
14 of the National Coordinator for Health Information Tech15
nology (referred to in this section as the ‘Office&#8217. The Of16
fice shall be headed by a National Coordinator who shall
17 be appointed by the Secretary and shall report directly to
18 the Secretary.
19 ‘‘(b) PURPOSE.—The National Coordinator shall per20
form the duties under subsection (c) in a manner con21
sistent with the development of a nationwide health infor22
mation technology infrastructure that allows for the elec23
tronic use and exchange of information and that

442
•HR 1 EH
1 ‘‘(1) ensures that each patient’s health informa-
2 tion is secure and protected, in accordance with ap-
3 plicable law;
4 ‘‘(2) improves health care quality, reduces med-
5 ical errors, reduces health disparities, and advances
6 the delivery of patient-centered medical care;
7 ‘‘(3) reduces health care costs resulting from
8 inefficiency, medical errors, inappropriate care, du-
9 plicative care, and incomplete information;
10 ‘‘(4) provides appropriate information to help
11 guide medical decisions at the time and place of
12 care;
13 ‘‘(5) ensures the inclusion of meaningful public
14 input in such development of such infrastructure;
15 ‘‘(6) improves the coordination of care and in-
16 formation among hospitals, laboratories, physician
17 offices, and other entities through an effective infra-
18 structure for the secure and authorized exchange of
19 health care information;
20 ‘‘(7) improves public health activities and facili-
21 tates the early identification and rapid response to
22 public health threats and emergencies, including bio-
23 terror events and infectious disease outbreaks;
24 ‘‘(8) facilitates health and clinical research and
25 health care quality

443
•HR 1 EH
1 ‘‘(9) promotes prevention of chronic diseases;
2 ‘‘(10) promotes a more effective marketplace,
3 greater competition, greater systems analysis, in-
4 creased consumer choice, and improved outcomes in
5 health care services; and
6 ‘‘(11) improves efforts to reduce health dispari-
7 ties.

A health benefits advisory council, run by the federal government, to "provide(s) appropriate information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care"

What part of that makes you think the federal govt isn't deciding on what level of care a patient receives?

NEXT

Ed I refer you back to the original post that started the out of context exchanges and responses aimed to mis-direct.

See where you say "one word is not language from the bill" However the term Guide means to advise or counsel somebody, or influence the way somebody behaves or acts

The language instructs the government to "provide appropriate information to help
guide medical decisions at the time and place of care;

here let me put up the bill's language for you (i'll make the parts red i feel you overlook in your analasys)

Subtitle A—Promotion of Health
Information Technology

SEC. 3001. OFFICE OF THE NATIONAL COORDINATOR FOR HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (pages 441,442 of the bill)

ESTABLISHMENT.—There is established within the Department of Health and Human Services an Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology (referred to in this section as the ‘Office&#8217. The Office shall be headed by a National Coordinator who shall be appointed by the Secretary and shall report directly to the Secretary.
PURPOSE.—The National Coordinator shall perform the duties under subsection (c) in a manner consistent with the development of a nationwide health information technology infrastructure that allows for the electronic use and exchange of information and that—
‘(1) ensures that each patient’s health information is secure and protected, in accordance with applicable law;
(2) improves health care quality, reduces medical errors, reduces health disparities, and advances the delivery of patient-centered medical care;
(3) reduces health care costs resulting from inefficiency, medical errors, inappropriate care, duplicative care, and incomplete information;
(4) provides appropriate information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care

The national coordinator is given the power to "guide medical decisions" AKA advise on the benefits a person should be allowed to receive. If a doctor does not follow these reccomendations they can be severly penalized...this is stated in several places on the following pages 518, 540-541.

Their power is not specificlaly limited in the bill therefore it leaves tons of room for the government to take more power than they are telling us they want right now.

If you want to ignore it I can't stop you.

You can have the last word if you want it as i'm not going to follow you in circles

No where does it say "benefits." Clearly it is talking about TREATMENT INFORMATION.

It's purpose is to make INFORMATION available to the care givers as to what treatments have worked best around the country and what treatments have already been tried on the patient in other places where he or she was treated previously so there is no duplication or medical errors from drug interactions because one doctor or hospital doesn't know what another has already prescribed.

You take one word "guide" out of context and then "AKA" any context that rationalizes your lies.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I stand by my interpretation and the reasoning behind it.

On a side note


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdC5JCOz308]YouTube - The Day ObamaCare Died[/ame]

 

[edthecynic]

I stand by my interpretation and the reasoning behind it.

On a side note


YouTube - The Day ObamaCare Died

It was not YOUR interpretation of anything. It was Betsy McCaughey's perversion of the bill you never even read.

All you can do is mindlessly parrot other people's BS. Like a good little DittoTard you post your MessiahRushie's parody on health care because you can't "REASON" for yourself.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Your so full of anger

I enjoyed you and you seem to be very annoyed...even sweeter

have a great night I wish some luck on you for bringing me so much enjoyment.

 

[edthecynic]

Your so full of anger

I enjoyed you and you seem to be very annoyed...even sweeter

have a great night I wish some luck on you for bringing me so much enjoyment.

You have yet to be honest in any of your posts so far, why should this one be any different?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The language in the bill is a lie?

Ok

 

[edthecynic]

The language in the bill is a lie?

Ok

YOUR language is NOT in the bill. If it was, you wouldn't have needed an "AKA."

Try again.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/politics/26death.html?_r=1&ref=robertpear

OH hi everyone.....TOLD YOU SO! (although the snuck it back into the health care bill before final signing)

 

[Gadawg73]

Where is Frank with his Not Another Sarah Palin thread tirade?

 

[jillian]

How sad, PP has become an hysteric.

Media Matters for America

Ravi, I gave a link to the bill and specific page numbers backing up my little paragraphs.

Go READ it. I got the information from within the stimulus bill itself and made it VERY VERY easy to go verify. I even color coded my response so if someone had issue with a specific interpretation of the bill they could address it with me.

Did I get anything wrong? Please tell me what I specifically interpreted wrong so we can discuss it.

crickets

it's the interpretation, not the pages.

do you think health care isn't already being monitored for 'cost efficiency'?

who do you think is more likely to deny health care to someone who has an expensive illness? the insurance company which has only a profit motive and trains it's adjusters to deny claims if at all possible or some objective monitoring agency that just wants to make sure that no one is giving unnecessary, unreasonable care?