SILLY SARA PALIN, "Death Panels" in the STIMULUS BILL not the Health Care Bill

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Ok Ok so MAYBE i made the title to grab your attention but there are some changes to the health care system made by the stimulus bill as described below. This is ALREADY LAW so we cant fight to prevent it, we let them pass this already.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1eh.txt.pdf

Read the following pages 445, 454, 479. Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

442, 446. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology (lovingly referred to by conservatives as DEATH PANEL), will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Critical-What-About-Health-Care-Crisis/dp/0312383010/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234118804&sr=8-1"]Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis[/ame].” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

Pages 511, 518, 540-541. Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time”

pages 190-192. What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.

The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research. The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and treatments.

Page 464. Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council
(Read Death Panel to many who don't trust the government)

The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit

Pages 90-92, 174-177, 181. The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined

And people wonder why I dont trust a 2000 page health care bill

 

[Gatekeeper]

TO Pilgrim, as soon as the site loads I am going to review those pages and others. For some reason it cannot connect at this time.
We got this package rammed down our collective throats just like a dictatorship. More to follow.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

TO Pilgrim, as soon as the site loads I am going to review those pages and others. For some reason it cannot connect at this time.
We got this package rammed down our collective throats just like a dictatorship. More to follow.

let me see if I can find another link for you.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

you can try getting it from here. It is version H.R.1.EH

 

[Claudette]

I heard this same thing froma co-worker of mine and to be honest. I am not surprised. None of the Clowns in DC read the thing so I wonder what else is hidden in the bill???

 

[Big Black Dog]

You guys leave Sarah alone. She's my secret sweetie...

 

[Maple]

I heard this same thing froma co-worker of mine and to be honest. I am not surprised. None of the Clowns in DC read the thing so I wonder what else is hidden in the bill???

I can tell you what's gonna be there when it's all said and done. Taxpayer funded abortions and coverage for illegal immigrants.

 

[Ravi]

How sad, PP has become an hysteric.

Media Matters for America

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ok Ok so MAYBE i made the title to grab your attention but there are some changes to the health care system made by the stimulus bill as described below. This is ALREADY LAW so we cant fight to prevent it, we let them pass this already.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1eh.txt.pdf

Read the following pages 445, 454, 479. Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

442, 446. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology (lovingly referred to by conservatives as DEATH PANEL), will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

Pages 511, 518, 540-541. Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time”

pages 190-192. What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.

The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research. The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and treatments.

Page 464. Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council
(Read Death Panel to many who don't trust the government)

The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit

Pages 90-92, 174-177, 181. The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined

And people wonder why I dont trust a 2000 page health care bill

I tried to add a rep, but was unable...

I'm just glad you don't let this subject die, as it gives insight as to how our leftist leaders view the useless lives of the proletariat.

"Former vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin has been ridiculed forcoining the term "death panels". But it resonated with me. In 1983 mydaughter Karen was born with Down syndrome and a severe heart defect. Eventhough Karen’s father and I were told that her chances for survival were80 to 90 percent after open heart surgery, we were also told that thedoctors would support us if we refused surgery and "let" Karen die. Werefused to allow such medical discrimination against our daughter. Later on we were shocked to learn that one doctor had written a "do notresuscitate" order without our knowledge. Apparently he thought I "was tooemotionally involved with that retarded baby".

"Health care does not occur in a vacuum. Real people -- patients, familiesand health care providers alike -- are affected when economics and newethical rationales trump basic needs. The Good Samaritan did not ask whetherthe man lying on the road had health insurance. The Hippocratic Oathestablished a sacred covenant between doctor and patient, not health carerationing protocols. I strongly disagree with ethicists who contend that newtechnologies and economics demand new ethics. I am tired of hearing some of my medical colleagues talk about patients who"need to die". I am saddened to hear many of my elderly, frail patients fretabout being an emotional and financial burden on their families. I amoutraged when I read editorials arguing that those of us who refuse toparticipate in abortion or premature death should find another line of work. "

""Vegetable" was a pejorative term that was never used in front of patientsor their families. And suicide was a tragedy to be prevented, not an allegedconstitutional right to be assisted by doctor and nurses. Today we have ethics committees developing futility guidelines to overrulepatients and/or their families even when they want treatment continued. Wehave three states with legal assisted suicide. We have even non-brain deadorgan donation policies (called non-heartbeating organ donation or donationafter cardiac death). Some ethicists even argue that we should drop the deaddonor rule. "

" We see living wills and other advance directives with check-offs for evenbasic medical care and for incapacitated conditions like being unable toregularly recognize relatives. We are willing to sacrifice living humanbeings at the earliest stages of development to fund research for cures forconditions like Parkinson’s rather than promote research on ethical andeffective adult stem cell therapies. "

MercatorNet. A voice for human dignity. Our focus is parenting and family issues, bioethics, religion, philosophy and entertainment.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

How sad, PP has become an hysteric.

Media Matters for America

Ravi, I gave a link to the bill and specific page numbers backing up my little paragraphs.

Go READ it. I got the information from within the stimulus bill itself and made it VERY VERY easy to go verify. I even color coded my response so if someone had issue with a specific interpretation of the bill they could address it with me.

Did I get anything wrong? Please tell me what I specifically interpreted wrong so we can discuss it.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

How sad, PP has become an hysteric.

Media Matters for America

Ravi, I gave a link to the bill and specific page numbers backing up my little paragraphs.

Go READ it. I got the information from within the stimulus bill itself and made it VERY VERY easy to go verify. I even color coded my response so if someone had issue with a specific interpretation of the bill they could address it with me.

Did I get anything wrong? Please tell me what I specifically interpreted wrong so we can discuss it.

crickets

 

[Claudette]

Plym, why would Ravi want to read something that may interfere with his utmost faith and belief in The Great One??

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Plym, why would Ravi want to read something that may interfere with his utmost faith and belief in The Great One??

I would just like someone who may interpret those pages differently than myself to comment on the language in the bill so we can discuss and together broaden our understanding of what is in the stimulus.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

So am I to assume that everyone now understands that the Stimulus bill contains Health Benefit Advisory Council that will determine what should be covered and what treatments will be allowed?

 

[Claudette]

Yeah. I get it.

Wonder what else is hidden in the peice of shit??????

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

How sad, PP has become an hysteric.

Media Matters for America

Ravi, I gave a link to the bill and specific page numbers backing up my little paragraphs.

Go READ it. I got the information from within the stimulus bill itself and made it VERY VERY easy to go verify. I even color coded my response so if someone had issue with a specific interpretation of the bill they could address it with me.

Did I get anything wrong? Please tell me what I specifically interpreted wrong so we can discuss it.

crickets

Still chirping, I guess Ravi agrees with my interpretation of the language in the stimulus bill. It also seems Claudette does. That means a Liberal, a Conservative, and a Libertarian all agree that the stimulus bill contains death panels and more.

The truth sure is

 

[California Girl]

And the reason for the connection between the stimulus and healthcare bills? In the words of Dr Ezekiel Emanuel (below)....

5) Everything is connected.

Health care reform cannot be considered in isolation. The new administration must remember that health care is so big — $1 out of every $6 in the economy, dwarfing automobiles and all other economic segments. Everything is affected by health policy, and every decision should be examined for its impact on health care reform.

Consequently, if the heart of Mr. Obama’s economic policy is job creation, then it is contradictory to have a health care reform built on an employer mandate or to fund reform with a payroll tax. Employer mandates and payroll taxes stymie job formation.

Similarly, every favor to a constituency should be linked to support for the health care reform agenda. If the automakers want a bail out, then they and their suppliers have to agree to support and lobby for the administration’s health care reform effort. This builds grass roots support.

Since 1913, the United States has been trying to achieve comprehensive health care reform. If the Obama administration finally does it, it will truly be history making. The challenge is huge, but the rewards — for the administration and every citizen — will be even “huger.”

Think Big - Campaign Stops Blog - NYTimes.com

Every problem facing us at the moment, from the ecomony to the wars is being used to further the same agenda. That's the real reason for the delay in the decision regarding Afghanistan - it had nothing to do with making sure Obama made the best decision to win, it was - as it always is - about furthering his socialist agenda.

 

[Ravi]

Ravi, I gave a link to the bill and specific page numbers backing up my little paragraphs.

Go READ it. I got the information from within the stimulus bill itself and made it VERY VERY easy to go verify. I even color coded my response so if someone had issue with a specific interpretation of the bill they could address it with me.

Did I get anything wrong? Please tell me what I specifically interpreted wrong so we can discuss it.

crickets

Still chirping, I guess Ravi agrees with my interpretation of the language in the stimulus bill. It also seems Claudette does. That means a Liberal, a Conservative, and a Libertarian all agree that the stimulus bill contains death panels and more.

The truth sure is

Wrong. You've provided no credible links so there's no point in disproving something that isn't true.

 

[WillowTree]

Ok Ok so MAYBE i made the title to grab your attention but there are some changes to the health care system made by the stimulus bill as described below. This is ALREADY LAW so we cant fight to prevent it, we let them pass this already.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1eh.txt.pdf

Read the following pages 445, 454, 479. Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

442, 446. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology (lovingly referred to by conservatives as DEATH PANEL), will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

Pages 511, 518, 540-541. Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time”

pages 190-192. What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.

The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research. The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and treatments.

Page 464. Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council
(Read Death Panel to many who don't trust the government)

The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit

Pages 90-92, 174-177, 181. The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined

And people wonder why I dont trust a 2000 page health care bill

GE will do the tracking.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

crickets

Still chirping, I guess Ravi agrees with my interpretation of the language in the stimulus bill. It also seems Claudette does. That means a Liberal, a Conservative, and a Libertarian all agree that the stimulus bill contains death panels and more.

The truth sure is

Wrong. You've provided no credible links so there's no point in disproving something that isn't true.

Oh so the actual stimulus bill isn't credible....classic ravi, classic.

See the links in willow's quote of me above this post...you know the link TO THE LANGUAGE of the Stimulus bill, the one where i cite my page numbers and interpretations from.

Its ok to admit to being wrong Ravi, it makes you look a lot better than this idiotic response you just gave.