Sick and tired of US debate on raising the min. wage.

[White 6]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

Never put them out of business before. I guess people just keep eating groceries. Who knew?

 

[Concerned American]

But I won’t pay $15 an hour for someone to sit on my couch and watch movies while my kids sleep.

Last time I checked--babysitters are not subject to minimum wage laws--I get your point and agree whole heartedly however.

Well yes they are actually. If I opened a babysitting service, where I employed teen girls to do babysitting jobs, I would be required to pay them the minimum wage.

And that by the way, is why there are very few babysitting companies. The last one I looked up, was only available in extremely expensive areas.

In my experience which is extensive, most people do not hire baby sitters through a service. We use teens in our own neighborhoods. These teens, do not make minimum wage and do not pay taxes either.

 

[rightwinger]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

 

[Concerned American]

hardly since most are already paying that much it only shows how far behind the federal min wage is.

To me it shows the stupidity of pinheads in government who cannot keep up with events on the ground.

but if the government workers must justify their existence why put the min wage higher than where the free market says it belongs?

When I did fed or state work I made forty five to fifty an hour so I guess the federal min wage is for trash collectors and terlit plungers?

I was shocked when Biden raised it to 15 for federal workers???????? Who in their right mind is working for the federal gov and making less than 15 and hour???? A WHOLE LOT OF MINORITIES....MY FRIEND WORKED IN SSI IN TENN. SHE WAS MAKING LESS THAN 15 AFTER 30 YEARS OF SERVICE

With all due respect.... I have no degree, no education, no skills, no training, nothing. I've worked my way up without any help from anyone anywhere, and last year I was making $20/hour.

If your friends are making minimum wage, to the point that you have to praise Biden, or any other dumb politicians, for making a law that fixes their lives.....

Again, with all due respect.... that makes you stupid. Why are you wasting your life, waiting around for other people to fix your wages? What have you been doing all these years?

Get off your butt, and start moving up the income ladder.

The lady across the street from me, was babysitting out of her condo. She made over $500 per week, plus additional pay if people wanted their kids watched on the weekends. But your friends were working for minimum wage for the government? What is wrong with your friends?

Honestly, this is idiotic. You can buy a lawn mower.... a regular $50 Lawn mower, and make easily $50 to $100 PER LAWN.... for mowing lawns all summer long.

How do I know this? I know a guy that now runs a million dollar lawn care service, who started out in high school mowing lawns.

Can you push a mower? But instead you are going to waste your life away at some dumb government job, complaining that you are not making $15/hour?

See this is why people in your world are poor, and people in my world are rich. The people in your community will always be poor, as long as they sit around waiting on others, and worse than others, Government, to fix their lives.

Government will not fix your life. And long as you pretend that Biden is going to make your life better, your life will always suck, and you'll always be trying to find someone to blame, like Trump or Mitt Romney, or Bush, or whoever, for the fact your life sucks.

The nine scariest words in the English language--"I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Ronald Reagan.

 

[Grumblenuts]

But I won’t pay $15 an hour for someone to sit on my couch and watch movies while my kids sleep.

Last time I checked--babysitters are not subject to minimum wage laws--I get your point and agree whole heartedly however.

Well yes they are actually. If I opened a babysitting service, where I employed teen girls to do babysitting jobs, I would be required to pay them the minimum wage.

And that by the way, is why there are very few babysitting companies. The last one I looked up, was only available in extremely expensive areas.

With all due respect, you remain stupider than a box of rocks.

Occupations such as babysitting are not subject to the minimum wage law.

Not everything is about you personally, idjit. Bet you still can't get pregnant either. Duh.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

Exactly!

Who cares if unskilled workers can never find a first time job?
Who cares if po black folk don't have decent food available near their homes?

Fuck all y'all, eh?

 

[Concerned American]

I was shocked when Biden raised it to 15 for federal workers???????? Who in their right mind is working for the federal gov and making less than 15 and hour???? A WHOLE LOT OF MINORITIES....MY FRIEND WORKED IN SSI IN TENN. SHE WAS MAKING LESS THAN 15 AFTER 30 YEARS OF SERVICE

Is the job she is doing worth $15 an hour?

No government administrative job is worth $15 an hour

Most, if not ALL, government employees are overpaid. One exception, the military.

 

[Concerned American]

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

Exactly!

Who cares if unskilled workers can never find a first time job?
Who cares if po black folk don't have decent food available near their homes?

Fuck all y'all, eh?

Truth of the matter, though? If these lazy wastes of air want to sit on their asses and starve, I really don't give a good flying fuck. If they don't have enough ambition to get out and earn a living, so be it. I started out posting hand bills and mowing lawns and ended up planning maintenance for the largest winery in the world. Came from a lower middle class background, dropped out of high school and discovered that if I didn't feed myself, I was going to go hungry. In America today, if you are hungry it is your own lazy-ass fault. There are food banks, charities, social programs, welfare, SNAP, and the public schools where anyone can eat for free. I have absolutely no empathy. If you are looking for sympathy--look in the dictionary between shit and syphillis.

 

[initforme]

Most Americans are underpaid considering how hard working they are. All ceos are overpaid as they generally sit back and watch their underpaid labor work until they drop.

 

[rightwinger]

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

Exactly!

Who cares if unskilled workers can never find a first time job?
Who cares if po black folk don't have decent food available near their homes?

Fuck all y'all, eh?

Who cares if Kroger workers have to borrow $10,000 a year to pay for college because Kroger wont pay a wage over $7.25?

Who cares if the taxpayer has to subsidize the food and housing of that struggling black family because Kroger won’t pay over $7.25 an hour?

 

[impuretrash]

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

Exactly!

Who cares if unskilled workers can never find a first time job?
Who cares if po black folk don't have decent food available near their homes?

Fuck all y'all, eh?

Who cares if Kroger workers have to borrow $10,000 a year to pay for college because Kroger wont pay a wage over $7.25?

Who cares if the taxpayer has to subsidize the food and housing of that struggling black family because Kroger won’t pay over $7.25 an hour?

boo hoo the poor mythological creature

 

[rightwinger]

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

Exactly!

Who cares if unskilled workers can never find a first time job?
Who cares if po black folk don't have decent food available near their homes?

Fuck all y'all, eh?

Who cares if Kroger workers have to borrow $10,000 a year to pay for college because Kroger wont pay a wage over $7.25?

Who cares if the taxpayer has to subsidize the food and housing of that struggling black family because Kroger won’t pay over $7.25 an hour?

boo hoo the poor mythological creature

Real life

 

[impuretrash]

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

Exactly!

Who cares if unskilled workers can never find a first time job?
Who cares if po black folk don't have decent food available near their homes?

Fuck all y'all, eh?

Who cares if Kroger workers have to borrow $10,000 a year to pay for college because Kroger wont pay a wage over $7.25?

Who cares if the taxpayer has to subsidize the food and housing of that struggling black family because Kroger won’t pay over $7.25 an hour?

boo hoo the poor mythological creature

Real life

what about the poor Black transgender muslim with 13 disabled children who now has to pay double the price for groceries from Kroger?

WHAT ABOUT THEY/THEM?!

 

[initforme]

I get a kick out of those that clamor for workers to not get a raise yet say class warfare is a bad thing. They want it both ways. Class division is a fact in the us. Always has been.

 

[Grumblenuts]

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

Exactly!

Who cares if unskilled workers can never find a first time job?
Who cares if po black folk don't have decent food available near their homes?

Fuck all y'all, eh?

Who cares if Kroger workers have to borrow $10,000 a year to pay for college because Kroger wont pay a wage over $7.25?

Who cares if the taxpayer has to subsidize the food and housing of that struggling black family because Kroger won’t pay over $7.25 an hour?

boo hoo the poor mythological creature

Real life

what about the poor Black transgender muslim with 13 disabled children who now has to pay double the price for groceries from Kroger?

WHAT ABOUT THEY/THEM?!

Reductio ad absurdum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

Exactly!

Who cares if unskilled workers can never find a first time job?
Who cares if po black folk don't have decent food available near their homes?

Fuck all y'all, eh?

Who cares if Kroger workers have to borrow $10,000 a year to pay for college because Kroger wont pay a wage over $7.25?

Who cares if the taxpayer has to subsidize the food and housing of that struggling black family because Kroger won’t pay over $7.25 an hour?

Who cares if Kroger workers have to borrow $10,000 a year to pay for college because Kroger wont pay a wage over $7.25?

Imagine how much they'll have to borrow with their $0 Kroger check......

Who cares if the taxpayer has to subsidize the food and housing of that struggling black family because Kroger won’t pay over $7.25 an hour?

You're right, the taxpayer subsidy will be lower when they earn $0 an hour.

 

[Andylusion]

Let’s use the Big Mac Economic Index

The Big Mac was introduced in 1969 for 49 cents. The minimum wage worker making it was paid $1.60.
He could buy 3.25 Big Macs an hour.

Today that Big Mac costs $3.99 and the minimum wage worker makes $7.25.
He can’t even afford two Big Macs an hour

3.25 Big Macs would cost $13 an hour to buy. In line with a $15 an hour wage.

What the McDonald's Menu Looked Like the Year You Were Born

The McD's menu has changed so much—here's a look at the highlights.

www.tasteofhome.com

Right, and today, the cost of labor is dramatically higher than just the cost of the wage.

The cost of taxes and benefits on top of the base wage, dramatically increase the cost of employment.

What this means is that in 1969, the price of a big mac was much lower because the cost of paying employees was lower.

Further, that cost of labor filters into every material used in the making of the product. For example, the employees at the meet packing plant were paid less, thus the cost of beef was less. The employees at the bread bakery were paid less, thus the cost of buns was lower.

Every single step in the supply chain filters down to the customer.

This is why the claims are ridiculous, because the moment you raise the minimum wage, the cost of the products will adjust up accordingly.

For example in Denmark where they pay McDonald's employees around $20/hour, they seem to ignore the fact that they also charge almost $20 for a "value meal". In fact, a hot dog in Denmark will run you $12.

This is the limitations of the Big Mac index. While the cost of the burger alone, may seem only incrementally more expensive, the cost of everything else has dramatically changed.

This is a receipt from a friend who lived in Germany, and moved (happily) to the US with her husband.

One order of 20 pct Chicken nuggets, and 3 ice teas.

$19. 15.50 Euros is about $19.

See? This is the problem with all minimum wage arguments. You believe, falsely, that if you increase the wage, that somehow all the prices will remain the same. Wrong. The prices will adjust. There is no free lunch. Someone has to pay the bill.

 

[Andylusion]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

Never put them out of business before. I guess people just keep eating groceries. Who knew?

Well likely it won't put them specifically out of business. Instead it put their smaller competitors out of business.

Remember, regulations that cost companies money, inherently benefit the rich, at the expense of the poor. Large companies will generally have the money to pay those higher wages.... especially when their competitors are forced out of business. In my town, the small grocery chains, most were wiped out after the minimum wage went up to $7.25 from $5.25.

Poor get poorer. Rich get richer. That's how that works.

 

[Andylusion]

I get a kick out of those that clamor for workers to not get a raise yet say class warfare is a bad thing. They want it both ways. Class division is a fact in the us. Always has been.

I'm amazed you can actively clamor for workers to be unemployed, and yet say class warfare is a good thing.

You want it both ways. Class division harms those engaging in it. Always has been that way.

 

[Andylusion]

But I won’t pay $15 an hour for someone to sit on my couch and watch movies while my kids sleep.

Last time I checked--babysitters are not subject to minimum wage laws--I get your point and agree whole heartedly however.

Well yes they are actually. If I opened a babysitting service, where I employed teen girls to do babysitting jobs, I would be required to pay them the minimum wage.

And that by the way, is why there are very few babysitting companies. The last one I looked up, was only available in extremely expensive areas.

With all due respect, you remain stupider than a box of rocks.

Occupations such as babysitting are not subject to the minimum wage law.

Not everything is about you personally, idjit. Bet you still can't get pregnant either. Duh.

Why is it that the people who are the quickest to resort to insults, are nearly always the most ignorant about the topic?

29 CFR § 552.104 - Babysitting services performed on a casual basis.

www.law.cornell.edu

Employees performing babysitting services on a casual basis, as defined in § 552.5 are excluded from the minimum wage and overtime provisions of the Act.

(c) If the individual performing babysitting services on a “casual basis” devotes more than 20 percent of his or her time to household work during a babysitting assignment, the exemption for “babysitting services on a casual basis” does not apply during that assignment and the individual must be paid in accordance with the Act's minimum wage and overtime requirements. This does not affect the application of the exemption for previous or subsequent babysitting assignments where the 20 percent tolerance is not exceeded.

(d) Individuals who engage in babysitting as a full-time occupation are not employed on a “casual basis.”

"With all due respect, you remain stupider than a box of rocks."

I'm sorry....... what were you saying again? Care to correct your prior statement?

You can look up the exact code in law, if you doubt that, and by all means direct your corrections to Cornell Law School, where I'm sure they will be eagerly awaiting your enlightening statements.

Moving on....