Shutting Down Debate and Criticism

[Correll]

As I have said and idiots like you cannot understand is that any american worth a pinch of crap believes american citizens should be paid at least double for the same exact work done by illegals. Otherwise I cannot recognize youy as a fellow american. Does this make sense? Except some will say no let the market decide. Then you will complain when nobody applies for those jobs....lazy you will say. This is where the market goes against america.

The thing is, we can't allow YOU to determine what people should be paid. The free market system HAS to determine this if you want to fix the economy. Illegal aliens don't need to be employed. They need to be deported and anyone who is employing them, knowing they are here illegally, needs to be jailed or fined.

What you need to understand is that free market capitalism and corporatism are two entirely different things. Corporations who have bought political influence are more detrimental to free market capitalism than socialism. We've got to reel in the power of government so there is nothing for the corporatist to influence and let the free market system flourish as it is intended. If we do that, the problems with wages will fix themselves.

We don't want wages to fix themselves in level playing field with Third world labor.

 

[initforme]

Nope. The rule should be any american makes at least double an illegal for the same job no matter what the so called random market says.

 

[Kosh]

Nope. The rule should be any american makes at least double an illegal for the same job no matter what the so called random market says.

So four dollars an hour?

 

[Boss]

The market isn't always correct

Yes, it is.. when it's allowed to operate freely it's the most fair and benevolent system man has ever created. Nothing else has ever come close.

 

[Spare_change]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

Perhaps you forgot ...

Obama to GOP: 'I won'

Elections have consequences.

 

[Boss]

Nope. The rule should be any american makes at least double an illegal for the same job no matter what the so called random market says.

No, the rule should be (and is) that illegal aliens don't make anything because they can't be employed and they must be deported. When you eliminate the illegal aliens from the job market, the free market system allows Americans to be paid according to supply and demand.

 

[Dubya Da Last Repug Prez]

Sounds like what Republicans were told when Obama took office. We won so shut up. I remember that.

Please read the entire OP.

Funny, I don't remember Obama ever saying that.

Just more Repug horse shit in a weak effort to muddy the waters.

The fact is that you can't have an intelligent debate with Republicans based on principles, because they simply have no principles. They are nothing but an obstructionist party. During Obama's Presidency, the Republican Senate initiated more filibusters in 8 years than in the previous 200+ years of this country's history combined.

You can't have a policy debate unless there are two rational participants. The Repug Party is no longer a normal, rational political party. That is simply the sad truth.

 

[Kosh]

Sounds like what Republicans were told when Obama took office. We won so shut up. I remember that.

Please read the entire OP.

Funny, I don't remember Obama ever saying that.

Just more Repug horse shit in a weak effort to muddy the waters.

The fact is that you can't have an intelligent debate with Republicans based on principles, because they simply have no principles. They are nothing but an obstructionist party. During Obama's Presidency, the Republican Senate initiated more filibusters in 8 years than in the previous 200+ years of this country's history combined.

You can't have a policy debate unless there are two rational participants. The Repug Party is no longer a normal, rational political party. That is simply the sad truth.

Another far left drone that will deny reality!

President Obama sent Republicans a message on Friday: I won. Get over it.

Obama's Message to GOP: I Won. Get Over It | RealClearPolitics

President Obama to Republicans: I won. Deal with it.

 

[initforme]

Supply and demand don't equal double the wage. Therefore those jobs should be left unfilled. I condone it. The market is skewed against Lois wage laborers and the owners of those businesses should not be hiring.

 

[Correll]

Sounds like what Republicans were told when Obama took office. We won so shut up. I remember that.

Please read the entire OP.

Funny, I don't remember Obama ever saying that.

Just more Repug horse shit in a weak effort to muddy the waters.

The fact is that you can't have an intelligent debate with Republicans based on principles, because they simply have no principles. They are nothing but an obstructionist party. During Obama's Presidency, the Republican Senate initiated more filibusters in 8 years than in the previous 200+ years of this country's history combined.

You can't have a policy debate unless there are two rational participants. The Repug Party is no longer a normal, rational political party. That is simply the sad truth.

YOur crazy talk is very reassuring. I've been hearing some lefties talking like they want to try to learn from their defeat.


You need to shout down those moderates wimps.

Stick to your guns!

 

[initforme]

All those jobs unfilled would be a step forward. Some of you not fellow Americans would disagree because you are pricks.

 

[Correll]

Supply and demand don't equal double the wage. Therefore those jobs should be left unfilled. I condone it. The market is skewed against Lois wage laborers and the owners of those businesses should not be hiring.

A low wage job can be 7$ an hour. Or it can be 12.

By such differences, lives are changed, for the better.

 

[initforme]

For 7 an hour an employer has no right to expect production. No right.

 

[initforme]

$7 for an illegal should be $15 for an american

 

[Correll]

$7 for an illegal should be $15 for an american

Decrease supply, increase demand, wages will increase naturally.

 

[Dubya Da Last Repug Prez]

Sounds like what Republicans were told when Obama took office. We won so shut up. I remember that.

Please read the entire OP.

Funny, I don't remember Obama ever saying that.

Just more Repug horse shit in a weak effort to muddy the waters.

The fact is that you can't have an intelligent debate with Republicans based on principles, because they simply have no principles. They are nothing but an obstructionist party. During Obama's Presidency, the Republican Senate initiated more filibusters in 8 years than in the previous 200+ years of this country's history combined.

You can't have a policy debate unless there are two rational participants. The Repug Party is no longer a normal, rational political party. That is simply the sad truth.

Another far left drone that will deny reality!

President Obama sent Republicans a message on Friday: I won. Get over it.

Obama's Message to GOP: I Won. Get Over It | RealClearPolitics

President Obama to Republicans: I won. Deal with it.

Like I said...he never told Republicans to shut up. Obama has more class than you racist Repug fucks will ever have.

 

[Kosh]

Sounds like what Republicans were told when Obama took office. We won so shut up. I remember that.

Please read the entire OP.

Funny, I don't remember Obama ever saying that.

Just more Repug horse shit in a weak effort to muddy the waters.

The fact is that you can't have an intelligent debate with Republicans based on principles, because they simply have no principles. They are nothing but an obstructionist party. During Obama's Presidency, the Republican Senate initiated more filibusters in 8 years than in the previous 200+ years of this country's history combined.

You can't have a policy debate unless there are two rational participants. The Repug Party is no longer a normal, rational political party. That is simply the sad truth.

Another far left drone that will deny reality!

President Obama sent Republicans a message on Friday: I won. Get over it.

Obama's Message to GOP: I Won. Get Over It | RealClearPolitics

President Obama to Republicans: I won. Deal with it.

Like I said...he never told Republicans to shut up. Obama has more class than you racist Repug fucks will ever have.

See how the far left proves that they will deny reality and are sore losers!

 

[Spare_change]

For 7 an hour an employer has no right to expect production. No right.

What??????????????????????????????????????

LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't produce, your $7/hour turns into $0/hour real quick .... and somebody else gets $7/hour.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

There is a seat for you, in the back of the bus.

Elections have consequences

We may pass legislation via back room deals and without a single democrat vote.



Remember any of that? Yeah? Then stop fucking whining.

Whatever, you're a nevertrumper who jumped on the bandwagon. I used to respect your stances, but now you've lost all-credibility. I hope you sit on a black dildo. On accident.

Jumped on the Trump bandwagon? He's president now dumbass. Are you going to leave the country since he won or hope that he succeeds?
And btw I was not a never Trumper. Such stances are stupid & only serve to box you into a corner. I was a critic of the stupidity he spewed.
He won, put on your big boy pants, man up & get the fuck over it.

Did you not read the first line in the OP? I have accepted the results of the election and when he takes the oath of office Trump will be President Trump for me and all Americans who hold sacrosanct the democratic process. But, like I have with Obama, I will remain critical of him as Pesident: supporting what he does when I think it's right and criticizing him when I don't think it's right.

I read threads you started villifying Trump and his supporters. Now you act as if all along from the very beginning he was your choice and he was elected against all odds with your personal support.

Hillary lost the White House and you lost your principles, if you ever really had any.

Now suck a tape worm from the Donald's anus. I hope you get a genital wart which obstructs you from urinating, you spineless leech-like bottom dweller.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Here's the thing.... You're gonna hear "We Won, You Lost... sit down and shut up... Elections have Consequences!" I mean, don't fool yourself, that's what you;'re going to get, like it or not.

Fortunately, our system has been established with a mechanism of checks and balances to prevent the prevailing political party from being too fascist in governing. Many people will say we have a "two party system" but in reality, we have a "one party system" and that is whichever party has majority control of Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of government. The minority party serves the roll of keeping the majority in check. In two years, we'll have more elections and power may shift again. This is just how politics work in America.

As for the polarization, that has been a serious problem since.... oh, probably around Bill Clinton's impeachment. I guess you could argue it goes further back, but that seems to be the point at which we became so vehemently divided as a nation and we've never recovered.

One of the things that I thought might be good about a Trump presidency is that he represents a political outsider who isn't loyal to either party, therefore, he has the potential to somewhat "reset" the table and bring us back to a more bipartisan state. I don't know that this will happen, especially given the way the left seems to be digging in their heels and determined to try and obstruct him at ever turn, but.... here's the thing about that.... they virtually lost all their political power this go around and it will be hard for them to block anything by themselves. They are literally going to be forced to start compromising and working with Republicans to get anything done.

I agree with much of what you've written here. But I've seen Democrats saying they are willing to work with the new administration and the GOP. Senator Schumer, Senator Booker, Senator Warren, and Senator Sanders to name a few.

I guess that was sort of what I was getting at... they're going to have to either work with the administration or they'll have to form a coalition with other republicans. They can't do much on their own. I think Trump is going to end up being more of a centrist president and that's not really a bad thing. Extremists from both sides may not like it but it's probably the best case scenario for everyone.

The point is... this isn't going to be some awful terrible reign of tyranny the left is making it out to be and it's also not going to be some authoritarian alt-right wet dream. I'm just hoping for a more conservative philosophy... not right-wing ideology, but general philosophy. That suits me just fine and I think America will be better off for it.

I hope you're right, but from his tweets and some of his governmental appointments I remain skeptical. Some of the things he campaigned on I supported: draining the swamp, shaking up the establishment and the status quo yet he has already apparently renegged on with some of these very establishment appointments. It doesn't bode well for some of the other policies he laid out during the campaign specifically his policies on lobbying.

And I don't believe Trump is a man of principles. He has not ever demonstrated that. Perhaps his administration won't be as corrupt as I suspect it will be - I really hope it won't, but as I said: I remain skeptical.