Shutting Down Debate and Criticism

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

There is a seat for you, in the back of the bus.

Elections have consequences

We may pass legislation via back room deals and without a single democrat vote.



Remember any of that? Yeah? Then stop fucking whining.

Whatever, you're a nevertrumper who jumped on the bandwagon. I used to respect your stances, but now you've lost all-credibility. I hope you sit on a black dildo. On accident.

Jumped on the Trump bandwagon? He's president now dumbass. Are you going to leave the country since he won or hope that he succeeds?
And btw I was not a never Trumper. Such stances are stupid & only serve to box you into a corner. I was a critic of the stupidity he spewed.
He won, put on your big boy pants, man up & get the fuck over it.

Did you not read the first line in the OP? I have accepted the results of the election and when he takes the oath of office Trump will be President Trump for me and all Americans who hold sacrosanct the democratic process. But, like I have with Obama, I will remain critical of him as Pesident: supporting what he does when I think it's right and criticizing him when I don't think it's right.

I read threads you started villifying Trump and his supporters. Now you act as if all along from the very beginning he was your choice and he was elected against all odds with your personal support.

Hillary lost the White House and you lost your principles, if you ever really had any.

Now suck a tape worm from the Donald's anus. I hope you get a genital wart which obstructs you from urinating, you spineless leech-like bottom dweller.

I act as if I supported him all along? Really?

Are you stupid or just retarded? I remind fools (much like you) daily just where I stood.

And lol at a liberal sissy telling me I lost my principles. I'm one of the few on this board that actually have them to begin with. Just last week I created a thread questioning how Trump could consider Romney when their philosophy on Russia is so different.
Then this week I created a thread mocking the stupidity of offering HUD to a brain surgeon.

Making shit up to insult me does not make you any smarter than you were before you lost your pacifier.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

There is a seat for you, in the back of the bus.

Elections have consequences

We may pass legislation via back room deals and without a single democrat vote.



Remember any of that? Yeah? Then stop fucking whining.

Whatever, you're a nevertrumper who jumped on the bandwagon. I used to respect your stances, but now you've lost all-credibility. I hope you sit on a black dildo. On accident.

Jumped on the Trump bandwagon? He's president now dumbass. Are you going to leave the country since he won or hope that he succeeds?
And btw I was not a never Trumper. Such stances are stupid & only serve to box you into a corner. I was a critic of the stupidity he spewed.
He won, put on your big boy pants, man up & get the fuck over it.

Did you not read the first line in the OP? I have accepted the results of the election and when he takes the oath of office Trump will be President Trump for me and all Americans who hold sacrosanct the democratic process. But, like I have with Obama, I will remain critical of him as Pesident: supporting what he does when I think it's right and criticizing him when I don't think it's right.

I read threads you started villifying Trump and his supporters. Now you act as if all along from the very beginning he was your choice and he was elected against all odds with your personal support.

Hillary lost the White House and you lost your principles, if you ever really had any.

Now suck a tape worm from the Donald's anus. I hope you get a genital wart which obstructs you from urinating, you spineless leech-like bottom dweller.

I act as if I supported him all along? Really?

Are you stupid or just retarded? I remind fools (much like you) daily just where I stood.

And lol at a liberal sissy telling me I lost my principles. I'm one of the few on this board that actually have them to begin with. Just last week I created a thread questioning how Trump could consider Romney when their philosophy on Russia is so different.
Then this week I created a thread mocking the stupidity of offering HUD to a brain surgeon.

Making shit up to insult me does not make you any smarter than you were before you lost your pacifier.

I haven't read those threads. I apologize. I no longer hope you get a urinating-obstructing genital wart. There was maybe a little too much hyperbole in that last post.

But I still don't understand this apparent glee with which you now seemingly defend the very man you have strongly criticized for the past year. It just seems like blatant partisanship.

 

[Little-Acorn]

The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans.

That's hilarious.

They say that before every election. When they lose, they even say it for a week or so after the election.

And they never, ever, ever do it.

Unless the Republicans totally capitulate to what the Democrats want.

And here you are, sounding like you almost believe their promises.

Surely you're not that naïve.

 

[Boss]

Funny, I don't remember Obama ever saying that.

LOL... Oh really? You don't remember his "back of the bus" comment? Let's refresh your memory, asshole...

 

[Boss]

Supply and demand don't equal double the wage. Therefore those jobs should be left unfilled. I condone it. The market is skewed against Lois wage laborers and the owners of those businesses should not be hiring.

The market isn't skewed against anything in a free market... that's why it's called a free market and not a skewed market. If you think a job pays too little, you are free to not take it.... that's the free market.

What's NOT free market is when little twerps like you think you can step in and tell a business how much they have to pay labor. The result is, you kill jobs because the business resoundingly says... fuck you!

 

[BlueGin]

For 7 an hour an employer has no right to expect production. No right.

What??????????????????????????????????????

LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't produce, your $7/hour turns into $0/hour real quick .... and somebody else gets $7/hour.

Apparently some people have never learned that if you are productive you can earn raises and move up the ladder.

 

[Boss]

For 7 an hour an employer has no right to expect production. No right.

Well then, you don't deserve $7... you don't deserve anything. Why do you think you deserve money without producing anything? That's not even rational. You're obviously living in some kind of fantasy universe where people just get money for nothing and I guess it comes from some mystical golden unicorn who shits it out in rainbow farts?

 

[Boss]

But I still don't understand this apparent glee with which you now seemingly defend the very man you have strongly criticized for the past year. It just seems like blatant partisanship.

Here's my thing... I am partisan because I'm not a liberal and I am a constitutional conservative. I've criticized Trump when he hasn't supported things that are conservative and praised him when he did.

That said, I am not going to give him much grief over his cabinet picks because I think the president deserves the right to pick his own cabinet based on his own criteria regardless of what I think. I may not like his choices but it's still his right and I can respect that.

Now, when he finally takes office and starts implementing policies, that's when I reserve my right to speak my opinion and I will. I am going to give him every benefit of the doubt and I sincerely hope that he can improve the economy and bring jobs back, lower the corporate taxes, get rid of Obamacare, fix the illegal immigration problem and kind of get us going back on the right track again. If he is able to do that, I'll be a happy camper.

What I am not going to do is stick him under a microscope and nit pick every little thing I can find because I think that is dumb. When you do that you become the boy who cried wolf. Or the lib who cries racist. It loses it's meaning after a while and you have no credibility.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

A way around this, a way to stop the government lurching from left to right every so often is to do what the Senate does for the presidency, and what Switzerland does for their executive.

Switzerland has 7 members of the presidency and they're elected at different times. The presidency is no longer one person, it's 15 separate departments, with lots of people working for each department. If each of these departments were elected, perhaps not even through direct democracy but in other ways then it would stop this nonsense that goes on right now.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

No, the rule should be (and is) that illegal aliens don't make anything because they can't be employed and they must be deported. When you eliminate the illegal aliens from the job market, the free market system allows Americans to be paid according to supply and demand.

Yes! And THAT is the end of the matter.

Wages have stagnated and inflation has increased because, though population has increased (from legal and ILLEGAL immigration), immigrants have kept wages artificially low.

1. DEPORT ILLEGALS.
2. Force all able bodied people to take those jobs if they want to eat.
3. The free market will settle the value of your job (in wages) based on how difficult it is to get people to do those jobs.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

I sincerely hope that he can improve the economy and bring jobs back, lower the corporate taxes, get rid of Obamacare, fix the illegal immigration problem and kind of get us going back on the right track again. If he is able to do that, I'll be a happy camper.

That's my wish list too. If he does all those things, his presidency will be a huge success... YUGE!

His cabinet picks mean NOTHING to me. My worry is Bush/Reagan like interference from the Democrats just to obstruct every little step he makes. I know they will spend the next four years undermining EVERYTHING he does. WE need to be ready to fight back so he can accomplish the promises he campaigned on.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

Elections have consequences.
Now that Donald Trump has been elected, we can't have liberals sitting shotgun. We gotta have working families up in front. We don't mind the liberals joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

 

[TemplarKormac]

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and appoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Of course not. Nobody's saying you can't criticize the President's decisions. We all will be at one point or another. It's just that when we Republicans (me formerly) chose to hold skeptical views of a newly minted President Obama, we were swiftly labeled as racists. No argument, no reason, no nothing. Most of our skepticism had nothing to do with the color of his skin, yet still, we were racists. And then the "he won, get over it" arguments started.

It was the most effective way for liberals to shut down the debate and end the criticism.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't know what all of that meant, but I will say that by slapping the qualifier, "principled" to "principled" conservatism, you are trying to shut down the debate. That assumes an elitist attitude that you somehow understand what "principled" means in regards to conservatives.

 

[owebo]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

President elect Trump vowed to be the president of all the people, including you. So your voice and opinions will be considered not dismissed out of hand. Now that said be realistic, Trump ran on a platform of campaign promises he's not going to adopt a Hillary position on an issue just because you favor her position over his. But as best as he can he will try to represent all the people.

Of course I don't expect the Trump administration to promote the liberal agenda. But he is signaling a very extreme rightwing agenda. I don't mean Obamacare, immigration or SCOTUS appointees; I mean Sessions as AG, Mnuchin as Treasury Secretary, Price as HHS Secretary, privatizing SS, Medicare/medicaid, opening up private land to resource exploitation, drilling in protected lands like ANWR, and totally denying concerns over accelerated global warming.

You mean MMGW?

 

[TemplarKormac]

But he is signaling a very extreme rightwing agenda.

"Signaling"

What does that even mean? The man has not assumed office and we're already trying to predict what his policies will actually be. Big difference between rhetoric and action.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Whatever, you're a nevertrumper who jumped on the bandwagon.

Wow. So he isn't allowed to change his mind? That's a perfect example of shutting down debate and criticism. Right here.

 

[Correll]

For 7 an hour an employer has no right to expect production. No right.

What??????????????????????????????????????

LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't produce, your $7/hour turns into $0/hour real quick .... and somebody else gets $7/hour.

Apparently some people have never learned that if you are productive you can earn raises and move up the ladder.

Not if there is a constant supply of workers willing to do your job for less.

THen it does not matter how productive you are.

 

[Spare_change]

Sounds like what Republicans were told when Obama took office. We won so shut up. I remember that.

Please read the entire OP.

Funny, I don't remember Obama ever saying that.

Just more Repug horse shit in a weak effort to muddy the waters.

The fact is that you can't have an intelligent debate with Republicans based on principles, because they simply have no principles. They are nothing but an obstructionist party. During Obama's Presidency, the Republican Senate initiated more filibusters in 8 years than in the previous 200+ years of this country's history combined.

You can't have a policy debate unless there are two rational participants. The Repug Party is no longer a normal, rational political party. That is simply the sad truth.

Tell ya what .... why don't you and I have a debate based on principles?

C'mon ... let's give it a try.

 

[kaz]

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish

The massive hypocrisy coming from the left in evaluating Trump versus Obama and the pronouncement of his being a failure months before he takes office makes it hard to take you people seriously. Really hard