GLASNOST
Platinum Member
Those weapons are not Ukraine's.
Should Ukraine get their Nuclear Weapons back?
- Thread starter CowboyTed
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
Well we know sanctions didn't work....
Mainly because Russia is pretty homogenous and China and India will sell them any other shit...
We are where we are... Neither Dems or GOP wanted to goto war unless nesscessary... Trump didn't either.
Ukraine wants their country back and Trump is is giving away the farm to Russia...
So if Trump wants out of the deal, give them their nukes back..
- Thread starter
- #43
They swapped Nukes for security and you are going What Nukes?
The Nukes were USSR and that country broke up...
martybegan
Diamond Member
- Apr 5, 2010
- 102,365
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Nukes won't help them because the correlation of inventories would be against them.
A first strike by Russia against Ukraine would be viable.
It's why Israel can't allow Iran to get ANY nukes.
The deal was broken by Obama, you can't blame Trump for it.
imawhosure
Platinum Member
- Apr 25, 2015
- 11,411
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Thirty years ago US, Britain and Russia signed a deal with Ukraine that they will protect them in exchange for their nuclear weapons.
Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994. Now it's asking why
It's 30 years since Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear arsenal. Some now question why they did.www.bbc.com
This is an agreement US and UK went into because a poor country like Ukraine having these weapons could be unsecure and evetually end up in a bad actors hands( North Korea, Al Queda, Iran....)...
It was the US that was pushing the deal... US wanted that security for itself as they predicted that they would be the main aim of those bad actors... There was no metion or expectation of Ukraine joining or not join EU or NATO.
Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
So Russia then decides to invade Ukraine in 2014... The US and EU knowing their obligations to the deal sanctioned Ukraine, then Russia invaded Crimea, the sanctions increased and US/EU started to arm and train Ukraine to better protect themselves ....
Russia then went for the whole country. Ukraine repealed them and a three year war started...
Now Trump wants to renege on the whole deal, he is basically saying that Ukraine were fools to sign a deal with America because US doesn't honour deals any more...
As with any deal, if you back up, you have to give them there nuclear weapons back...
US loosing trust in the world severely weakens its globally standing. Hard to do business if there is no trust.
US got what they wanted and Ukraine can basically goto hell..
And who/whom, is going to give them back to them? The Left proclaimed what a WONDERFUL deal it was when they gave them up for protection. By the way, tell everyone who negotiated this deal-)
LordBrownTrout
Diamond Member
Let me explain democracy, Bill Clinton was elected President of US at the time...
The Republican Party supported the deal too, GOP was very much against Nuclear proliferation at the time and considered a major threat to US way of life.
First, both parties maintained their agreement on the need for deterrence, albeit using a smaller force. Second, both parties advocated for a decrease in the size of the nuclear arsenal in the early ‘90s, and for an increase in defense spending in the mid ‘90s. Third, both parties shifted their focus toward preventing the proliferation of nuclear weapons, especially to rogue states like North Korea and Iran. For example, in 1992, the Republicans pledged to prevent “outlaw nations” like North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Libya, and others from acquiring WMDs, while Democrats pledged to “get tough” on those that peddle nuclear technologies. Furthermore, both parties also focused on reducing Russia’s arsenal and ensuring that Soviet weapons did not fall into terrorists’ hands.
Nuclear Fission: The Political Polarization of Nuclear Weapons Issues - The Hamiltonian
The Alexander Hamilton Society (AHS) is a non-partisan, not-for-profit, national organization that seeks to identify, educate, and launch young men and women into foreign policy and national security careers imbued with the Hamiltonian perspective of strong and principled American leadership in...hamiltonian.alexanderhamiltonsociety.org
It was signed by the US President, that US agreeing... GOP at the time were behind it and supported it...
Lets be very clear, US can say no deal now but give them back their weapons... That is what you are saying I think..
It was never agreed upon by congress........but thats not saying much. How many treaties did we break with the native americans?
GLASNOST
Platinum Member
I repeat. Those weapons are not Ukraine's.
- Dec 16, 2017
- 23,060
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Give them their nukes back and get america out of there. Let Russia and Ukraine nuke it out...Thirty years ago US, Britain and Russia signed a deal with Ukraine that they will protect them in exchange for their nuclear weapons.
Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994. Now it's asking why
It's 30 years since Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear arsenal. Some now question why they did.
This is an agreement US and UK went into because a poor country like Ukraine having these weapons could be unsecure and evetually end up in a bad actors hands( North Korea, Al Queda, Iran....)...
It was the US that was pushing the deal... US wanted that security for itself as they predicted that they would be the main aim of those bad actors... There was no metion or expectation of Ukraine joining or not join EU or NATO.
Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
So Russia then decides to invade Ukraine in 2014... The US and EU knowing their obligations to the deal sanctioned Ukraine, then Russia invaded Crimea, the sanctions increased and US/EU started to arm and train Ukraine to better protect themselves ....
Russia then went for the whole country. Ukraine repealed them and a three year war started...
Now Trump wants to renege on the whole deal, he is basically saying that Ukraine were fools to sign a deal with America because US doesn't honour deals any more...
As with any deal, if you back up, you have to give them there nuclear weapons back...
US loosing trust in the world severely weakens its globally standing. Hard to do business if there is no trust.
US got what they wanted and Ukraine can basically goto hell..
- Thread starter
- #50
Obama tried to solve it without going to war...
Trump is the one abandoning Ukraine...
I am not blaming anyone, you out of the deal, just give them their stuff back...
- Thread starter
- #51
I have explained this at length, bot Democrats and GOP wanted the deal...
Trying to pretend you are stupid doesn't really work...
Anyway, if Trump wants out of the deal, give them there Nukes back...
- Thread starter
- #52
So you want to get out of the deal...
Again, give them their Nukes back if you want to back out... That is a bare minimum..
GLASNOST
Platinum Member
The only thing Ukraine should get is a boot up their ass.
AlexanderPK
Gold Member
- May 23, 2017
- 3,058
- 1,058
- 208
What's this bs about? Like Russia will ever let anybody to make such a move.Thirty years ago US, Britain and Russia signed a deal with Ukraine that they will protect them in exchange for their nuclear weapons.
Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994. Now it's asking why
It's 30 years since Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear arsenal. Some now question why they did.
This is an agreement US and UK went into because a poor country like Ukraine having these weapons could be unsecure and evetually end up in a bad actors hands( North Korea, Al Queda, Iran....)...
It was the US that was pushing the deal... US wanted that security for itself as they predicted that they would be the main aim of those bad actors... There was no metion or expectation of Ukraine joining or not join EU or NATO.
Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
So Russia then decides to invade Ukraine in 2014... The US and EU knowing their obligations to the deal sanctioned Ukraine, then Russia invaded Crimea, the sanctions increased and US/EU started to arm and train Ukraine to better protect themselves ....
Russia then went for the whole country. Ukraine repealed them and a three year war started...
Now Trump wants to renege on the whole deal, he is basically saying that Ukraine were fools to sign a deal with America because US doesn't honour deals any more...
As with any deal, if you back up, you have to give them there nuclear weapons back...
US loosing trust in the world severely weakens its globally standing. Hard to do business if there is no trust.
US got what they wanted and Ukraine can basically goto hell..
BackAgain
Neutronium Member & truth speaker #StopBrandon
To which country did Ukraine “turn over” its ~ 3,000 nukes?Thirty years ago US, Britain and Russia signed a deal with Ukraine that they will protect them in exchange for their nuclear weapons.
Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994. Now it's asking why
It's 30 years since Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear arsenal. Some now question why they did.
This is an agreement US and UK went into because a poor country like Ukraine having these weapons could be unsecure and evetually end up in a bad actors hands( North Korea, Al Queda, Iran....)...
It was the US that was pushing the deal... US wanted that security for itself as they predicted that they would be the main aim of those bad actors... There was no metion or expectation of Ukraine joining or not join EU or NATO.
Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
So Russia then decides to invade Ukraine in 2014... The US and EU knowing their obligations to the deal sanctioned Ukraine, then Russia invaded Crimea, the sanctions increased and US/EU started to arm and train Ukraine to better protect themselves ....
Russia then went for the whole country. Ukraine repealed them and a three year war started...
Now Trump wants to renege on the whole deal, he is basically saying that Ukraine were fools to sign a deal with America because US doesn't honour deals any more...
As with any deal, if you back up, you have to give them there nuclear weapons back...
US loosing trust in the world severely weakens its globally standing. Hard to do business if there is no trust.
US got what they wanted and Ukraine can basically goto hell..
Dante
I have always been here
- Banned
- #56
Seems a very nonsensical idea.Thirty years ago US, Britain and Russia signed a deal with Ukraine that they will protect them in exchange for their nuclear weapons.
Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994. Now it's asking why
It's 30 years since Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear arsenal. Some now question why they did.
This is an agreement US and UK went into because a poor country like Ukraine having these weapons could be unsecure and evetually end up in a bad actors hands( North Korea, Al Queda, Iran....)...
It was the US that was pushing the deal... US wanted that security for itself as they predicted that they would be the main aim of those bad actors... There was no metion or expectation of Ukraine joining or not join EU or NATO.
Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
So Russia then decides to invade Ukraine in 2014... The US and EU knowing their obligations to the deal sanctioned Ukraine, then Russia invaded Crimea, the sanctions increased and US/EU started to arm and train Ukraine to better protect themselves ....
Russia then went for the whole country. Ukraine repealed them and a three year war started...
Now Trump wants to renege on the whole deal, he is basically saying that Ukraine were fools to sign a deal with America because US doesn't honour deals any more...
As with any deal, if you back up, you have to give them there nuclear weapons back...
US loosing trust in the world severely weakens its globally standing. Hard to do business if there is no trust.
US got what they wanted and Ukraine can basically goto hell..
Where are the Nukes? Where they destroyed?
people have been posting without thinking this through.
wtf?
Dante
I have always been here
- Banned
- #57
"Ukraine joined Belarus and Kazakhstan in giving up their nuclear arsenals in return for security guarantees from the United States, the UK, France, China and Russia." - Russia reneged? 
Like the US with the Kurds and others.
"United States, the UK, France, China and Russia" - For two decades, It did keep seriously bad things from happening
Like the US with the Kurds and others."United States, the UK, France, China and Russia" - For two decades, It did keep seriously bad things from happening
note: What countries were part of the Iran nuclear deal?
The agreement was finalized in Vienna on 14 July 2015, between Iran and the P5+1 (the five permanent members of the United Nations S.C.—China, France, Russia, the U.K., U.S.—plus Germany) together with the European Union.
Missourian
Diamond Member
If the United States were to break up like the Soviet Union did... do the nuclear ICBMs in Missouri belong to Missouri?Thirty years ago US, Britain and Russia signed a deal with Ukraine that they will protect them in exchange for their nuclear weapons.
Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994. Now it's asking why
It's 30 years since Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear arsenal. Some now question why they did.
This is an agreement US and UK went into because a poor country like Ukraine having these weapons could be unsecure and evetually end up in a bad actors hands( North Korea, Al Queda, Iran....)...
It was the US that was pushing the deal... US wanted that security for itself as they predicted that they would be the main aim of those bad actors... There was no metion or expectation of Ukraine joining or not join EU or NATO.
Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
So Russia then decides to invade Ukraine in 2014... The US and EU knowing their obligations to the deal sanctioned Ukraine, then Russia invaded Crimea, the sanctions increased and US/EU started to arm and train Ukraine to better protect themselves ....
Russia then went for the whole country. Ukraine repealed them and a three year war started...
Now Trump wants to renege on the whole deal, he is basically saying that Ukraine were fools to sign a deal with America because US doesn't honour deals any more...
As with any deal, if you back up, you have to give them there nuclear weapons back...
US loosing trust in the world severely weakens its globally standing. Hard to do business if there is no trust.
US got what they wanted and Ukraine can basically goto hell..
We have Whiteman AFB and the Stealth aircraft with Nukes. Would those be ours, too?
Asking for a friend...
LordBrownTrout
Diamond Member
I don't disagree with that.
- Thread starter
- #60
It turned them over to US, UK and Russia...
The assurance was from all the parties in the agreement...
When you sign a deal, it is not Ukraine's business with what US, UK or Russia did with the Nukes...
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