Should the US Arm Ukraine?

[gipper]

We've already armed the Ukes whether Barry likes it or not. The CIA isn't about to sit idly by while the punk in the WH watches the Putin invade a sovereign nation. That's why Putin is trying to freak out Merkel with his sabre rattling....we already have over a hundred SFGs in Kiev training the Uke military....I've had that training and it's the best in the world. Putin might think he can overrun Kiev but if he tries, he'll find himself in a deeper pit than his soviet moron brethren dug in Afghanistan.

If true, this is another reason...among many to completely terminate the CIA.

 

[georgephillip]

BushII was a disaster, but you conveniently over look ... communism.

Communism saw capitalism as an imperial predator bent on world conquest. Judging by events in Kiev over the past twelve months, there's little reason to believe the communists were wrong.

 

[BullKurtz]

He's a stooge, I agree, but he was also legally elected. We had worked out an agreement for him to finish his term and hold new elections before Ukraine made any trade deals. It's not logically possible to argue that the Maiden resulted in a legal transfer of power.

But, it's not possible to go back. So, the question is how can we get some peace now.

Send enough Ivans back home in body bags and they'll quit like they did in Afghanistan. We're obligated to help the Ukes do that. If Putin didn't have plans to reconstitute the soviet union, he wouldn't be concerned about Ukraine leaning toward Europe...even joining NATO which they will now. He didn't think things through.

 

[BullKurtz]

If true, this is another reason...among many to completely terminate the CIA.

And leave our national security to a piece of shit like Obama? I don't think so...one thing about the CIA is they see the world for what it is...lions and lambs... we are lions and we need to EAT on a regular basis.

 

[georgephillip]

No one is saying Donbass can't go with Russia? Than what exactly is the war over again?

^^^These guys seem to be saying Donbass will have to fight if it wants to leave Ukraine.
"The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, sought to delay agreement on a Ukrainian ceasefire at talks in Minsk because he wanted pro-Russia separatists to capture the eastern railway hub of Debaltseve, an EU summit has been told..."

"Witnesses to the discussion said all the EU leaders were sceptical about the success of the Minsk peace plan, not least because Putin had resisted pressure for a ceasefire. He hoped to delay the truce by 10 days, the summit heard, in order to force the surrender of up to 8,000 Ukrainian troops who are surrounded in Debaltseve by pro-Russia separatists."

Putin tried to delay Ukraine ceasefire deal EU summit told World news The Guardian

 

[BullKurtz]

If Putin were to take Kiev and occupy Ukraine, both the Ukes and Ivans would run out of food by the middle of summer.....Putin is BROKE and the oligarchs are starting to see him for what he is....As I've continued to predict, Putin will either be shot or poisoned by his security detail by May Day.

 

[Steinlight]

If Putin were to take Kiev and occupy Ukraine, both the Ukes and Ivans would run out of food by the middle of summer.....Putin is BROKE and the oligarchs are starting to see him for what he is....As I've continued to predict, Putin will either be shot or poisoned by his security detail by May Day.

Doubt it. Europe and Ukraine are the one's going broke, the separatists are advancing. That is why Merkel, Hollande, and Poroshenko pushed for this ceasefire, because Ukraine is losing and we in Europe cannot afford further sanctions. We are tired of this war an having to pay for it with sanctions. Hopefully the Americans don't undermine the ceasefire and progress towards peace can be made.

 

[georgephillip]

If true, this is another reason...among many to completely terminate the CIA.

And leave our national security to a piece of shit like Obama? I don't think so...one thing about the CIA is they see the world for what it is...lions and lambs... we are lions and we need to EAT on a regular basis.

It's more likely Allen Dulles helped to create the CIA to serve the interests of investment bankers in 1946 than to provide intelligence to the president. Sheep who believe otherwise might want to explain why Dulles, a prominent Wall Street attorney, recruited an advisory committee of Wall Street investment bankers and lawyers to help lay the foundation for a permanent war time national security state.

 

[JWBooth]

It matters not if Russia blatantly moves half of its army into Ukraine and takes all of it. Still not even the slightest bit of strategic importance to the safety and security of the US. There is nothing nada zilch in all of the Ukraine worth the life of the first Texan sent there to die for some bullshit "my dick is bigger than yours" foreign policy.

 

[westwall]

For a debate between a retired USAF General and John Mearsheimer on what could possibly go wrong with arming the Kiev government, please listen to this twenty-seven minute segment of DemocracyNow!

"As fighting continues in Ukraine, President Obama said Monday he has not ruled out arming the Ukrainian military against Russian-backed rebels. Meeting with Obama at the White House, German Chancellor Angela Merkel reiterated her opposition to arming Ukraine, saying the conflict could not be resolved militarily. Merkel is set to hold talks in Minsk on Wednesday with the leaders of Russia, Ukraine and France in a bid to end the crisis that has killed thousands and displaced 1.5 million people over the past year. Should the United States escalate its role in the conflict by arming Ukraine? We host a debate between retired Air Force general Charles Wald, the former deputy commander of U.S. European Command, and University of Chicago professor John Mearsheimer."
Playing with Fire A Debate on U.S. Arming Ukraine NATO Expansion to Russia s Border Democracy Now

No, but then it's an inaccurate depiction of what we're actually talking about. The US government doesn't own weapons manufacturers, they're private businesses. What we're talking about is allowing US companies to sells arms to a foreign power. And/Or giving the power in question loans with which they'll then purchase those weapons.

My position remains the US shouldn't be arming other countries to continue wars. Sooner a war ends one way or the other the better. Helping them continue is more immoral than hastening their cessation even if the "bad guy" wins (sooner a bad guys wins, sooner the remaining good guys can go on living.)

If Russia wants Ukraine or any other or even all the USSR client states, I don't pretend to give a shit. And would rather the US not come in on their side vs Russia. That's what we did with China vs Japan and look how well that turned out.

Having Japan a democratic free market econ ally was a bad outcome?

Was thinking Pearl Harbor and World War 2 in the Pacific. YOu know, shit like that.

Conversely, had we been more assertive, early against Japan, none of it might have occurred. If the UK and France had reacted forcefully against Germany's march into the Ruhr the Second World War likewise might not have occurred. At least it wouldn't have been Germany instigating it.

 

[Stratford57]

Yanukovych was a crook and a Putin puppet....his snipers murdered hundreds of freedom-seeking Ukes on the streets of Kiev. And then he ran to Pooty instead of facing the wrath of the people he tried to keep in russian chains. When they got inside his palace they saw where their meager wealth was going. Now Putin has turned a friend of russia into a bitter enemy and they will never surrender.

Gabriel Gatehouse, a BBC journalist disagrees with you. He has found, that shooting was also coming from protesters’ side.

Hey, BullKurtz, from your previous posts I've found out you don't support Obama. Why are you supporting him and his administration when it comes to Russia? Do you really believe those clowns would tell you truth about Russia but lie about everything else? They only use you as a taxpayer and supply you with "correct" information (or disinformation), which helps the process of transferring the money from your pocket to theirs to be easy and silent.

 

[georgephillip]

t must be those JJJOOOSSSS right boy George!

You would know,

 

[gipper]

If true, this is another reason...among many to completely terminate the CIA.

And leave our national security to a piece of shit like Obama? I don't think so...one thing about the CIA is they see the world for what it is...lions and lambs... we are lions and we need to EAT on a regular basis.

Yeah because the CIA's many interventions have worked out so well.

 

[georgephillip]

IMF interventions also have a track record many find suspicious. If the choice in Ukraine reduces to Soros or Putin, working Ukrainians might be better with the devil they already know:
"The 'new economic thinking' of neoliberalism holds that privatization of public infrastructure can make investors rich.

"Creditors will lend and get secure collateral, and equity investors will become rent extractors limited only by their inability to dismantle government regulations against windfall gains, a rent-tax, 'unexplained earnings' taxes and other rentier income.

"When rent extraction impoverishes the economy, the financial solution is for the IMF or other intergovernmental organization to lend governments enough foreign exchange to pay their foreign creditors—and make taxpayers pay the cost of the tax shift off finance and real estate and monopoly onto labor.

"The result is economic shrinkage.

"And sometimes, the result is catastrophe, as with what occurred in Russia in the mid-1990s or massive political instability, as with what happened in Argentina between 1998-2002."

The National Interest Michael Hudson

 

[Baron]

Just imagine the reaction of USA if Russia would arm Texas or California.Dumb morons from DC can not grasp an arming of Ukraine by USA leads 100% to nuclear war with Russia.

 

[JoeB131]

Just imagine the reaction of USA if Russia would arm Texas or California.Dumb morons from DC can not grasp an arming of Ukraine by USA leads 100% to nuclear war with Russia.

Ukraine isn't part of Russia anymore.

I don't think arming them is a good idea, or even picking a side in their civil war, which is what Obama and the EU did.

 

[Baron]

Just imagine the reaction of USA if Russia would arm Texas or California.Dumb morons from DC can not grasp an arming of Ukraine by USA leads 100% to nuclear war with Russia.

Ukraine isn't part of Russia anymore.

I don't think arming them is a good idea, or even picking a side in their civil war, which is what Obama and the EU did.

Than you shall agree the most of US states do not belong to this country
And it is not Jewish 'Congress' or Jewish run 'potus' which decide about the future of Russian People

 

[gipper]

Just imagine the reaction of USA if Russia would arm Texas or California.Dumb morons from DC can not grasp an arming of Ukraine by USA leads 100% to nuclear war with Russia.

Ukraine isn't part of Russia anymore.

I don't think arming them is a good idea, or even picking a side in their civil war, which is what Obama and the EU did.

O started the war. He successfully overthrew a democratically elected government. Just another coup by our corrupt politicians, but most Americans have no clue.

 

[JoeB131]

Than you shall agree the most of US states do not belong to this country
And it is not Jewish 'Congress' or Jewish run 'potus' which decide about the future of Russian People

Um, guy, the Ukraine has been independent since 1990. this isn't an issue worth discussing.

Basically, fuck Russia... The sooner we throw out Putin's cockholster, Trump, the better.